Soviet - afghan campaign

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (captainwhiskers @ Feb. 28 2002,02:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How mad would a Soviet mission be based on the opening days of the war when the Spetnaz stormed a palace and took out the Afghan leader at the time. I saw a TV doco on this once and it was a huge fire fight - Spetnaz kicked ass though.

Lots of convoy escort missions would be a must. Search and destroy missions by airborne troops in the mountains would be cool. Street to street fighting was pretty common also. Yeah they have to do this campaign.<span id='postcolor'>

I saw a doc that sounds similer... the one I saw the Spetz Natz were out numbered, had to storm a building defended by alot of gaurds and it was in pitch black darkness with no support (sounds like Red Hammer). The Spetz Natz guy said the only way they could tell enemy from friend was from all the cursing that was being yelled.

Missions based on real events would be ok with me.

[DoubleTAP 1]

Yeah I hear that Chan, few of todays generation (of which I'm a member) know the evil which lurks in the heart of men. It saddens me how little most people pay attention to world events, or worse how apathetic they can be.

People think that the things that happened in WW2 can't happen any more...and yet theres Milosevic in a war crimes tribunal. How long America sat back while Hitler was being emulated in Eastern Europe, because opinion polls showed that we Americans don't care about the world until somebody pisses in our back yard.

Of course when we do get involved, the world raises objections, it's hard enough to get this country rolling in any direction in the first place with such a diverse and usually divided populace, the adage "United we stand, divided we fall should be ammended.."United we act, divided we ignore".

Another thing to someone elses post: If you replace such a broad term as "Afghans" with "the bad guys" referring to the actual threatening elements within an entire country, you might not come across as if you want to kill innocent people.

ON TOPIC:

Saw "the Beast" as it was called on the action channel. Frikk'n brutal movie.

[Adstar 0]

Leta face the facts people

the main reasion that the Arab's Hate the Yanks is becouse of their totaly one sided support of Israel and any thing the israelies do. why does the israeli tail wag the Yanky dog? There is a well organised Zionistic movement in the USA that can deliver millions of votes to any party that gives Israel the most support so both parties compete to be the most pro- zionist. Also most of the move making corperations are owned by (Guess who?) you have got it Zionists so they make movies that demonise Arabs and Muslims to brainwash the yanky mushrooms. We all know that they have a lot of cash to "donate" to political organsations. So the zionists could go out and kidnap all the palistinian children and through them into the Gas chambers and I can garente you the USA would still blindly support ISrael.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Adstar @ Mar. 06 2002,01:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Leta face the facts people

the main reasion that the Arab's Hate the Yanks is becouse of their totaly one sided support of Israel and any thing the israelies do. why does the israeli tail wag the Yanky dog? There is a well organised Zionistic movement in the USA that can deliver millions of votes to any party that gives Israel the most support so both parties compete to be the most pro- zionist. Also most of the move making corperations are owned by (Guess who?) you have got it Zionists so they make movies that demonise Arabs and Muslims to brainwash the yanky mushrooms. We all know that they have a lot of cash to "donate" to political organsations. So the zionists could go out and kidnap all the palistinian children and through them into the Gas chambers and I can garente you the USA would still blindly support ISrael.<span id='postcolor'>

There are so many things I can say about current events... but it would only cause more conflict here so I will not even bother...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I think the estimated dead civilians died by bombs in afg was 3500 or something? right?

[Greadius 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (I)eaI)Eye1809 @ Feb. 26 2002,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i dont really know about that conflict but i think it would be cool to kill some afganis after what they did on 911 i would like to be american though<span id='postcolor'>

None of the 19 hijackers were of Afghan origin. Most of them were Saudi Arabian and a few Egyptians. Several of them had never even been to Afghanistan.

There will NEVER be an accurate account of how many civilians were killed by American bombs. Never. Estimates are really useless in this situation. In the most mine covered country in the world, where the Taliban had shown no discrimination between using weapons on civilians, it is impossible to tell what killed most of these people.

And for the Israel thing... yes, America supports legitimate democracies; I'm sorry that upsets you so much. The fact that you think Israel calls the shots and the support is unconditional means you would greatly benefit from doing a little research into the nature and conditions of the relationship.

Oh, yeah, and the topic...

I'd love to see a Soviet-Afghan campaign... basically because guerrilla warfare is done very nicely in OFP, and most of the hardware used in that conflict is already incorperated in the game. However, the Afghan's didn't use the modern Western equipment in the game; most of what they used was stolen from the Russians or bought through 3rd party dealers.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ Mar. 06 2002,15:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the estimated dead civilians died by bombs in afg was 3500 or something? right?<span id='postcolor'>

Don't forget the US troops that were bombed by their OWN aircraft. And a few crashes of aircraft.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (I)eaI)Eye1809 @ Feb. 26 2002,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i dont really know about that conflict but i think it would be cool to kill some afganis after what they did on 911 i would like to be american though    <span id='postcolor'>

Alot of people would feel the same way about the USA, wanting to killing americans I mean.

But in this Afgan-Soviet war you can't be american. I know america supported afgan but I don't think they actively paticipated. I read a review on some World War 2 flight sim on the Eastern front and it said the game wouldn't be popular because america was not involved. I guess its no surprise that all americans want to be... american in these games.

[Greadius 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ Mar. 06 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But in this Afgan-Soviet war you can't be american. I know america supported afgan but I don't think they actively paticipated.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, the CIA had operatives on the ground early in the war to train the Afghans on how to use modern equipment, especially the rocket launchers, and some basic combat tactics.

As far as I know, they didn't actually see any action, but they were THERE. We can always rewrite history a little

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Greadius @ Mar. 06 2002,18:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ Mar. 06 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But in this Afgan-Soviet war you can't be american. I know america supported afgan but I don't think they actively paticipated.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, the CIA had operatives on the ground early in the war to train the Afghans on how to use modern equipment, especially the rocket launchers, and some basic combat tactics.

As far as I know, they didn't actually see any action, but they were THERE. We can always rewrite history a little <span id='postcolor'>

After 911 would you really want to ally yourself with the taliban just to play as an american?

[Badgerboy 0]

Don't go down the Hollywood road of rewriting history to fit in with their small minded plots and stories. Its an insult to the people who took part in such conflicts.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Western special forces WERE in Afghanistan in the 80s training rebels plus 'observing' attacks

of course if they came under fire, they would fire back

they certainly witnessed 'events' and its quite possible some took part .

As for Afghan casualties in the present conflict a 100 or 100s is a ludicrously low figure

most decently researched estimates put the figure in the thousands , 3767 is the figure produced by Proffesor Marc Herolds research form eye witness accounts

thats 3767 CIVILIANS ,not something to be brushed aside as irrelevant or 'regrettable'.

More people apparently died in the US counter attack than Sept 11 itself

HOPEFULLY more lives will be saved in the long run by this current action, but we can only hope....

(and dont expect the ,mainstream US press to give you the full accounts of civilian deaths- http://www.afn.org/~iguana/archives/2002_01/20020102.html

)

[CK1 0]

The only problem with Having a Russo-Afghan campaign is the lack of Variety in the Weapons, both sides would be sporting roughly the same equipment. Sounds more like a Mod than an actual production. And I would THINK that during the current mood in the world, that not many people would scramble to play the muhajedeen* but hey, 1/2 the people in CS played Terrorist, and Half played CT eh?

[Frag Haus Capt Morgan 0]

Okay one WOW JUST WOW.

Peoples political views really came out.

And wow May 1927 in some of these posts all over again.

As for death tolls. Personally I don't care. More innocent people died in WWII. Man people get upset if one person dies today. You know what in a war there is no innocent civilians. You have to expect some loses on both sides. That is a fact of life. With that said

Back to the mod. In order for it to be realistic.

One you would have to put american advisors in. Lets face it we trained them. Two as far as being evenly matched. I don't think so. The russians had the tanks and the afgans had ak47s, rpgs, stinger missle and other cool american toys that are not in this game. They had some artillary and mortars but not much else. The russians would pretty much have the standard equipment that is in the game. Also they would have to field the havoc. All their was only couple at this time. The prototypes where still field tested in afgan, Like the f117 in the gulf. Their are many battles that where fought that where real battles. But if you want to go the other way also with this.

Iin the campaign you would have to slaughter civilains if you played the russians and guess what if you played the otherside you have to also. Lets face it no ones hands where clean in that war. You have to remember you are dealing with tribal disputes. That are thousands of years old. Throw some poltics and religion in there and you got problems. It would be like the whole of the congo getting along. Yeah like that will ever happen. Like any war people die that is a fact.

So let us not turn this into a political discussion this is a game! Leave your views at home.

[Frag Haus Capt Morgan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ Mar. 06 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read a review on some World War 2 flight sim on the Eastern front and it said the game wouldn't be popular because america was not involved. I guess its no surprise that all americans want to be... american in these games.<span id='postcolor'>

Well hardliner this statement is semi false. Any true flight sim Fan Knows that Flanker truely had its day.  Yes their where american aircraft you could fly but limited.  You mainly had to use russian aircraft.

Also lock on is another flight sim that is suppose to be comeing out and is very well anticipated by the flight sim community. Oh it is a russian based flight sim. If you go to their site you will see people are posting on a foroum for months for a game not even close to being done.

Yes I agree with your point but only about with half of it.

[PitViper 0]

Can we please keep this to the topic? Afghan-Soviet campaign in OFP!

[Chan 1]

My my my... how fast a Operation Flashpoint forum post can turn into a policital disscussion..

[Greadius 0]

That 3600 figure is slightly more legitimate than a made up number of casualties. We won't know the actual number; live with it.

As far as playing the 'Taliban', there is a HUGE, HUGE difference between the Taliban and the Afghan Mujaheddin (spelled correctly, I checked ). Leaders of the Taliban did very little fighting in the Russian conflict, most of them hid out in Pakistan until the civil war erupted and then rolled in fresh from lack of fighting. Most of the real nationalists and heroes against Soviet occupation died in the fighting. Many of the veteran units that did the brunt of the fighting split up after the war into different factions. Members of the Northern Alliance actually saw much more action during the campaign than most anyone in the Taliban.

I'd gladly play guerrilla combat though... it is probably my favorite thing to do in the game. Plus the set up of OFP lends itself nicely to an Afghan mod: lots of hills, mountains, no rivers, plenty of Soviet hardware; cover & surprise are well implamented. If I understood Mods I'd get cracking on it

[Psycho1 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ Mar. 06 2002,15:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the estimated dead civilians died by bombs in afg was 3500 or something? right?<span id='postcolor'>

You think? I haven't even heard of bombs killing several hundred......Care to show us an article saying that? Kinda makes me mad when someone says something like that and doesn't have any factual basis.

[Chan 1]

Just remember Stalin's quote inside Flashpoint..

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frag Haus Capt Morgan @ Mar. 06 2002,22:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ Mar. 06 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read a review on some World War 2 flight sim on the Eastern front and it said the game wouldn't be popular because america was not involved. I guess its no surprise that all americans want to be... american in these games.<span id='postcolor'>

Well hardliner this statement is semi false. Any true flight sim Fan Knows that Flanker truely had its day.  Yes their where american aircraft you could fly but limited.  You mainly had to use russian aircraft.

Also lock on is another flight sim that is suppose to be comeing out and is very well anticipated by the flight sim community. Oh it is a russian based flight sim. If you go to their site you will see people are posting on a foroum for months for a game not even close to being done.

Yes I agree with your point but only about with half of it.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't read many reviews. Its just one I saw.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ Mar. 06 2002,19:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HOPEFULLY more lives will be saved in the long run by this current action, but we can only hope....<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this point.

[Hardliner 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chan @ Mar. 06 2002,22:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My my my... how fast a Operation Flashpoint forum post can turn into a policital disscussion..  <span id='postcolor'>

You think THIS is a political disscussion? I could MAKE a political debate but I am going to spare this forum of any hostillity.

[PitViper 0]

5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ Mar. 07 2002,095)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chan @ Mar. 06 2002,22:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My my my... how fast a Operation Flashpoint forum post can turn into a policital disscussion..  <span id='postcolor'>

You think THIS is a political disscussion? I could MAKE a political debate but I am going to spare this forum of any hostillity.<span id='postcolor'>

of course you could.  you are proudly flying a flag of totalitarian communism.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Mar. 07 2002,15:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">of course you could.  you are proudly flying a flag of totalitarian communism.<span id='postcolor'>

Now you're just egging him on