Crysis Sandbox 2 : The model to follow for Arma2?

[EricM 0]

I downloaded the Crysis SP demo, which comes with an editor called Sandbox 2. I urge anyone interested in mod/map/mission making to have a look at it as it probably sets the reference for future editor integration, namely for Arma 2.

The land building/texturing/populating(vegetation, buildings, characters etc...) mission design/AI/scripting integration really seems awsome. With everything being visualy rendered in real time with full details and the ability to switch instantly from gamemode to debug/edit mode, it really feels easy to create new missions and environnements. In no time I was able to add some boats, choppers and tanks to the demo mission, tweak some of the landscape and play it on the fly.

With the increased complexity of the environnments in games like Arma or Crysis, the need of slick edition tools is even more important to allow the modmakers and mission makers to concentrate on the content and forget about the techniques behind it.

I'm really hoping for Arma2 3D editor. I hope it will somehow be as nice as this one.

[privatenoob 0]

WEll you know, if VBS2 have been released as Arma in the first place we would all luv the editor, so editing in realtime with their engine is already possible.

To bad its only the military that seems to get the chance to play with it. Imagine building your own city in realtime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb9T8ju7Fsw

I cant even place soldiers on roof in the Arma editor even less place them exactly where I want em.......they definitive need to make it easier, its like comparing Windows 311

with XP. Its like you need to know commands and scripts and ****! The stoneage of computergaming 2007.

(What im meaning is this; VBS2 is ervything Arma should have been in the first place, in MY opinion.)

[shinRaiden 0]

I beg to differ. There is damning pic's of the Crysis sandbox out there showing how the horrendous amount of AI control elements required to make a usable mission would throw all your idealism right out the window. Any particular reason why you would want to cripple the ability of any Arma user to be able to create any sort of a usable mission?

150kb pic

another

and another

still not convinced?

This is about as bad as trying to make a truly AI-functional BSP map for other engines like id's.

- Point 2 -

VBS2 was developed substantially independent from ArmA by an entirely different development team. Rehashing that old insatiable flame war will only result in warnings and thread locks. Tread lightly there.

- Point 3 -

BIS has already promised a lite version for ArmA2. Why a 'lite' version? For the simple fact that it would be nigh impossible to prevent cheating exploits. In fact, the essential commands already in ArmA, inherently allow for mass manipulation of content to the point that the engine is inherently a cheater's dream. I'm not even referring to system-level memory watching, I'm referring to the user-mode scripting commands begged for by the community who then turns around and complains about the abuse of those very same commands.

Putting this into a lite mode, ie only allowing the 3D editor in an offline development mode, is one of many efforts BIS is making to try and help the community, which refuses to discipline itself. For the record, I am unaware of any instance at any time of any sort of cheating in the VBS2 community, while the system is as 'vulnerable' as is Arma.

- Point 4 -

The video linked, is a user repost of a Bohemia Interactive promotional video of an early beta, and reflects development status of over a year ago, and does not reflect the substantial amount of ongoing development supported by Defense support and development contracts.

[privatenoob 0]

- Point 2 -

VBS2 was developed substantially independent from ArmA by an entirely different development team. Rehashing that old insatiable flame war will only result in warnings and thread locks. Tread lightly there.

Im aware of most details about this and whom are making what, I have more hopes and fears around this but I think most understand what could be the consequences on military licenses vs PC-game-developing so I wont go any further on this(hepp!.

If they truly are separated I dont know, since everyone here go bananas when the V-word comes up like a dark hidden secret.

Anyway, since ArmaII is the nextgen_aka_game2(and not Arma) I guess time will tell. Im just focused on the editor when there actually is something to compare it with.

A lite-version of what? The VBS2 editor?

[Hawk666 0]

Personal, I have to say, that I like the 'development environment' of Arma, apart of the known and already discussed gaps in the other threads. Ok, there is no real IDE, but thanks to some very talented members of the community we have a FSM editor and more than one script editor which helps a lot!

Arma2 should just provide an object-oriented script language to enable the community to build real reusable functionality, a debugger (one with a very basic functionality would serve as well) and full access to the AI and I'm happy .

If the developers (BIS) think that it is feasible, I would appreciate it if they would discuss some design issues (script language etc.) with the community in advance. Probably both side would benefit.

[TheJay 0]

Yes, the AI stuff can be unwieldy in Crysis. But there are a lot of other idea's in the Sandbox Editor that could benefit the ArmA community. Drag and Drop unit and object placement, 3d view (then we wouldn't have to preview the mission multiple times to make sure placement and rotation of objects are correct), visual scripting engine (so you don't have to be a coder to make a mission), and numerous others. Replacement of the inner workings of ArmA should not happen, just make access to those things easier and faster. This would drastically cut down on mission development time and headaches.

[Mr_Tea 0]

Judging by the screens, posted by shin Raiden, there is no AI in Crysis.

Only good looking graphics, and a hole lot of scripts that make things going.

What can the Crysis AI archive on it`s own, without waypoints and scripts to tell them exactly what to do?

OnTopic:

There are mods incoming, or released for ArmA that allow realtime missing editing in 3D.

[Inkompetent 0]

Judging by the screens, posted by shin Raiden, there is no AI in Crysis.

Only good looking graphics, and a hole lot of scripts that make things going.

What can the Crysis AI archive on it`s own, without waypoints and scripts to tell them exactly what to do?

OnTopic:

There are mods incoming, or released for ArmA that allow realtime missing editing in 3D.

Well, AI is to simulate real behaviour with as much cheating as possible on the way to get there. To manually define what to use as cover, boundaries for where to walk and so on is an excellent way to reduce the CPU power needed to have the AI behave well.

Maybe they use the same amount of CPU power as in ArmA but are 10x smarter with well planned and defined maps?

ArmA could use this too, but it would have to be pre-defined for all objects, and would require an insane amount of work to get to work well at a 20x20km map, and AI would need a serious upgrade since they won't get 0,3m exactness until ArmA2.

Personally I'd just like to see better dual core optimization so that for example AI goes on one core and the rest of the game on another. That way - and together with a scalable AI (only two settings needed. Normal and advanced for one/multiple CPU cores) - we could get something really good going.

Trouble with coding AI is that it needs exponentially increasing amount of CPU power, and that's where the kind of stuff Crysis uses comes in so that you won't need one computer alone only for AI processing.

[EricM 0]

I haven't tried the AI part yet, so I'll give you that.

But as much as I love Arma (it's maybe the only game I played for the last 12 months), I must confess that landscape editing is still a blast in sandbox. It's like visitor and realtime mission editor into one. I could do in 5 minutes more than I did in weeks trying to figure out how the tools were working in the biki.

It's not a question of engine (Arma may not have all the bells and whistles, but it's a very capable engine and no doubt that in one year it will improve even more) but of ergonomy.

[gL33k 0]

I downloaded the Crysis SP demo, which comes with an editor called Sandbox 2. I urge anyone interested in mod/map/mission making to have a look at it as it probably sets the reference for future editor integration, namely for Arma 2.

The land building/texturing/populating(vegetation, buildings, characters etc...) mission design/AI/scripting integration really seems awsome. With everything being visualy rendered in real time with full details and the ability to switch instantly from gamemode to debug/edit mode, it really feels easy to create new missions and environnements. In no time I was able to add some boats, choppers and tanks to the demo mission, tweak some of the landscape and play it on the fly.

With the increased complexity of the environnments in games like Arma or Crysis, the need of slick edition tools is even more important to allow the modmakers and mission makers to concentrate on the content and forget about the techniques behind it.

I'm really hoping for Arma2 3D editor. I hope it will somehow be as nice as this one.

My pov.

the sandbox2 is a incredibly powerfull tool for create map and fill it.

you can paint texture, paint whatever you want.

but for manage AI logic, it's crappy. then i doubt in ability for crysis to be able to create "dynamically" some waypoint path , group , spawn AI etc.

it's usable for SP mission , but i doubt really you can ever build a CTI like MP mission.

ps: AI in MP mode seem not functionnal yet... -_-'