Sensor view on russian attack copter

[NoRailgunner 0]

SUBS17 you didn't get the point - don't compare ArmA aviation with LockOn and similar stuff.

Otherwise you don't know much about real combat... "optical targeting" - search for EOTS you may get some update

Back to sensor view - would be better to have KA-52 or Mi-24 with gunner position and working MFD's. Voting ?

[Maddmatt 1]

Back to sensor view - would be better to have KA-52 or Mi-24 with gunner position and working MFD's. Voting ?

ArmA 2 has an Mi-24, as you can see on screenshots. And if you want one for ArmA then an addon is your only hope. The RHS hind is available.

I think it's too late to ask BIS for this stuff

[Inkompetent 0]

Well, if the wanted to give us a modern helo they could just have tossed in the Mi-28 Havoc.

I understand if they didn't want the Russian steel beast of the Hind, but since the Hokum A isn't remotely useful due to severe targeting problems a Havoc would probably have been more useful since it's a two-seater.

I've tried to improve the Hokum A a bit by altering the firing mode for FFARs. I'll see if I have an easy way to fix the sounds and the HUD, and if not I'll toss out an early release anyway.

[-G-Shock- 0]

1) Do you know that ArmA is not that "ultimate" flight/heli sim?

2) IRL: The Ka-50 is armed with quick-firing 30mm gun, which has an unrestricted azimuth and elevation range mounting for use against airborne or ground targets. The gun is equipped with 460 rounds of ammunition: two types being carried, high-fragmentation and explosive incendiary rounds and armour-piercing rounds.

3) Would be nice to have FLIR, radar warning receiver, electronic warfare system and chaff and flare dispenser....

Would'nt it be better if BIS upgrade this heli to KA-52? So we have (in MP) "two-seater vs two-seater"?

1) It's evident by the flight model but bf2 for example is not a sim either still you can use the main copter functions pretty easily...and both copters are devastating.

2) The rotation of turret must be limited for evident reasons. The cannon is on the right side of fuselage and you can only shoot left if you want more air conditioning

3) Yes it would be better, but some choices of compromise can still be done with the ka-50 to make it enjoyable. Besides, the sensor doesn't specifically need to be slaved to the cannon, which means we should be able to use it (unrestricted) at least to zoom and identify targets.

I'm rather discomforted by this attitude they have of releasing multiple versions in multiple languages, then release 1 or 2 patches and then move on to next project. I don't think they'll ever "patch" this copter. It's a shame coz all new players do the SP and when they get to "Alligator" they curse...then in "Battlefields" their arms fall off.

[volkov956 0]

In version 1.0 of arma it worked they removed the moving since 1.05

[subs17 9]

SUBS17 you didn't get the point - don't compare ArmA aviation with LockOn and similar stuff.

Otherwise you don't know much about real combat... "optical targeting" - search for EOTS you may get some update  

Back to sensor view - would be better to have KA-52 or Mi-24 with gunner position and working MFD's. Voting ?  

In what way do I not know much about real combat? Please enlighten me as to how you arrived to this conclusion? Yet you claim the KA50s gun has unrestricted azimuth and elevation if that were the case then it would be able to fire backwards then which it can't so you are wrong there. The video links I provided show a good example of the KA50s weapon system being used. Lets see you do better.

30-mm Automatic Cannon, 2A42:

Range: effective 3,000 m

Elevation: -45° to +10°

Traverse: ±15°

Ammo type and rate of fire is selectable by pilot (HE or AP, 350 or 600)

This is not an Apache so with EOTS you can only aim within +/- 15 deg traverse. Hopefully that will answer your issue.

For comparison here is some specs for the Mi28

The helicopter is equipped with a turreted 2A42 30mm cannon, stabilised in two axes, with a muzzle velocity of 1,000m/s.

FIRE CONTROL AND SURVEILLANCE

The pilot uses a helmet-mounted target designator, which allocates the target to the navigator's surveillance and fire control system. The navigator / weapons officer is then able to deploy guided weapons or guns against the target. The targeting system follows the direction of the pilot's eyes.

The integrated surveillance and fire control system has two optical channels providing wide and narrow fields of view, a narrow-field-of-view optical television channel, and laser rangefinder. The system can move within 110° in azimuth and from +13° to -40° in elevation.

[subs17 9]

In version 1.0 of arma it worked they removed the moving since 1.05

Thats a pity I'm hoping in future they might do something better it would be good if they teamed up with XSI or Eagle Dynamics as then you would wind up with some quite detailed aircraft. With the use of trakir, hotas support and a clickable cockpit there is potential for some decent avionics/WCS.

[Inkompetent 0]

Ohh... Clickable cockpit would be nice, but then again... I think the ArmA world is too small. 40x40km in ArmA2 is overflown very, very fast with a jet and you don't get much opportunity to maneuver the radar modes, TFR, FLIR, LANTIRN, slewing of Mavericks or setting burst altitudes and arming delays for bombs.

But well, to model RWR and laser warning, toggleable TWS, GM and GMT radar (and possibly SEA radar), CCIP and CCRP and maybe even DTOS bombing modes, and more proper radar and IR A2A missiles.

But something that should be easily solvable in ArmA itself would be to separate the yaw to roll at over standstill speed for fixed and rotary wing aircraft, so that the helicopters become a bit more useful. The Ka-50, and FFARs with all other helos, are silly hard since you can't make small corrections with the yaw.

[-G-Shock- 0]

You can see from the hud in those vids about the ka-50 that there's a box when the gun is armed. That's most likely the shooting area. The limits are pretty evident as the box is totally slewed to the left. Since you can move the cursor in the screen, i think you can actually move the gun as well within these limits.

Working on the avionics and an approximate thing like that, working exactly as it does with the arma cobra would be so nice.

Sure...we miss many things in the copter flying models.

1) Flares/chaff

2) Flir

3) Autorotation system

But this of the sensor and gun is the most important thing missing, at least in this copter.

[Daniel 0]

Bit offtopic, but whats missing autorotation wise?

[Inkompetent 0]

That the Ka-50 automatically turns itself towards the target as soon as you lock on it.

[subs17 9]

Ohh... Clickable cockpit would be nice, but then again... I think the ArmA world is too small. 40x40km in ArmA2 is overflown very, very fast with a jet and you don't get much opportunity to maneuver the radar modes, TFR, FLIR, LANTIRN, slewing of Mavericks or setting burst altitudes and arming delays for bombs.

But well, to model RWR and laser warning, toggleable TWS, GM and GMT radar (and possibly SEA radar), CCIP and CCRP and maybe even DTOS bombing modes, and more proper radar and IR A2A missiles.

But something that should be easily solvable in ArmA itself would be to separate the yaw to roll at over standstill speed for fixed and rotary wing aircraft, so that the helicopters become a bit more useful. The Ka-50, and FFARs with all other helos, are silly hard since you can't make small corrections with the yaw.

Thats correct the minor corrections are also needed for roll and pitch to be more precise. I think for gunships you really need as a minimum an optical sight with a zoom plus a laser to paint the targets. That would allow for better accuracy for missiles plus in theory you could even buddy lase(only if the real KA50 can do that though). TI would also be cool as well as COH and HOC modes for the Mavericks in the A-10/AV8B. The A-10s weapons are not in a realistic configuration either. One other thing about the fixed wing aircraft is the ability to drop bombs perhaps just a simple CCIP sight for iron bombs and cluster bombs. I wonder if Arma2 will allow for buildings to be destroyed that would make things quite interesting. It would be nice for the tanks to get tweaked a bit too anyone remember M1 tank platoon where you could lock tanks up and fire a laser to get range and the gun would automatically adjust onto the target plus you had laser detection so you knew if another tank was getting ready to fire on you.

[-G-Shock- 0]

Let's start from ArmA.

If we wanted to build a copter as it should be (and i mean all copters) the first thing to do would be to change the ejection sequence. This means if you are shot down, you die. Simple as that.

One of Ka-50's prerogatives is the ejection seat which actually works...and it looks like it's the only helo that can do that irl.

This means if Ka-50 gets shot down, the ejection works exactly as with the airplanes. It has the parachute.

All other copters, in real life, go for autorotation.

For those who don't know what it is, all modern copter blades have a variable angle. The more inclined, the more lift they generate and this of course is controlled by the pilot.

When helos are shot down, the pilot has to set the prop on "neute" and as the copter falls down like a rock the air below it pushes the blades that start moving exactly as if they were activated by the engine. Of course, being the blades on "neute" they generate no lift.

As the copter is about to crash, the pilot manouvers the prop pitch so that the blades generate lift with the speed accumulated during the fall and use this accumulated speed to slow down the fall or even land properly if enough power allows it.

As you can imagine, the pilot only has one shot...once the power is runs out the helo will crash inevitably but still, there's a good chance to at least slow down the fall which may lead to crew survival.

The autorotation system is totally missing in ArmA and that's why all copters were given the "ejection" with parachute while irl none have...only the Ka-50. (time to re-evaluate the real combat parameters of this copter. It's bis who didn't build it but the copter is very good)

...when you see on the news that a copter has crashed and all insiders died you wonder : why didn't they autorotate to safety?

Autorotation needs time to build speed. The copter is a rock falling from the sky and to lift the damn thing, the blades must be rotating very fast. It takes TIME to build this speed during the fall and, as you know, the operational height of copters is very low for obvious reasons.

There's basically no time to build that speed needed to generate lift.

Back to the Ka-50, the vids show in the lomac hud a box, it's representing the gimbal limits of gun movement and the pilot slews the gun moving the cursor on the tdc within these limits. The limits are overridden basically by the avionics system. He hits a button and the copter autoheads towards the target.

Inkompetent, you need to either build the box in the Ka-50's hud (and mod the movement limits allowing us to move the sensor within these limits) or build the auto-heading, not much differently working for auto-hover, if you want to complete what BIS left incomplete. Most likely, both should be done.

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]In version 1.0 of arma it worked they removed the moving since 1.05

Thats a pity I'm hoping in future they might do something better it would be good if they teamed up with XSI or Eagle Dynamics as then you would wind up with some quite detailed aircraft. With the use of trakir, hotas support and a clickable cockpit there is potential for some decent avionics/WCS.

think it's because, as written on the game case, arma is the ultimate simulation ... not the best, ultimate ... the only things that the game simulate for the moment are the birds ...

[Maddmatt 1]

think it's because, as written on the game case, arma is the ultimate simulation ... not the best, ultimate ... the only things that the game simulate for the moment are the birds ...

Ultimate combat simulation. Not ultimate KA-50 simulation. You expect every simulation game in one (and more), for the price of a normal PC game?

[-G-Shock- 0]

Can't build a flight model, all sensors and the like...but surely something can be done to make this copter at least of some use...even a minimal use. Totally useless as it is now.

[Inkompetent 0]

I'll try to have a look at 1.04 to see if it is true that they had solved some of the troubles with the Ka-50 then and see if I can bring it over to my mod.

A slewable gun might be a bit much to hope for, but if I can override the yaw->roll controls at over silly low 40km/h I'm sure auto-turning towards target ought to work.

And also the catapult chair. Not sure how to script it, but I'm sure it's one of the more possible things.

[Jex =TE= 0]

Quote[/b] ] It would be nice for the tanks to get tweaked a bit too anyone remember M1 tank platoon where you could lock tanks up and fire a laser to get range and the gun would automatically adjust onto the target plus you had laser detection so you knew if another tank was getting ready to fire on you.

That was a great game, "On the Way!"

I seem to remember that getting hull down was a lot easier in M1, yet in arma the barrel won't go down enough to make it so. I have no idea though which one is accurate, if any.

[Daniel 0]

[G-Shock], you do realise ArmA (and OFP from what i've heard) simulates autorotation to a usable degree don't you? It's saved my arse a few times.

[Jex =TE= 0]

Daniel @ Sep. 24 2007,19:00)][G-Shock], you do realise ArmA (and OFP from what i've heard) simulates autorotation to a usable degree don't you? It's saved my arse a few times.

Hey Daniel,

Can you go into more detail how to do this? I have tried to autorotate the following way, with an undamaged bird;

1 - turn off the engine

2 - Bottom the collective

3 - Angle nose down slightly

I cannot accomplish it so I must be doing something wrong.

[subs17 9]

think it's because, as written on the game case, arma is the ultimate simulation ... not the best, ultimate ... the only things that the game simulate for the moment are the birds ...

Ultimate combat simulation. Not ultimate KA-50 simulation. You expect every simulation game in one (and more), for the price of a normal PC game?  

Actually I'd be quite happy if they removed the aircraft altogether and sold them as separate high quality addons.

[Maddmatt 1]

think it's because, as written on the game case, arma is the ultimate simulation ... not the best, ultimate ... the only things that the game simulate for the moment are the birds ...

Ultimate combat simulation. Not ultimate KA-50 simulation. You expect every simulation game in one (and more), for the price of a normal PC game?

Actually I'd be quite happy if they removed the aircraft altogether and sold them as separate high quality addons.

If aircraft were done properly, we would need a bigger map. Sahrani is too small for a flight sim.

If I want a flight sim, I'll play LOMAC

Would be great if ArmA/ArmA 2 was better with aircraft though.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Nice isn't it? Some people gets "angry" about that ArmA is not an flight simulator like "LockOn" and after a short time they want BIS to remove all aircraft

How many ArmA-customer will pay for extra Air-Pack by BIS?

Where are the peoples that like naval sims? Sahrani is an island - how the troops get there, how they reinforce - by CRRC, RHIB or PBX? (or is it with stealth Enterprise, Stargates etc. ??)

Solution to problem:

1) interest and knowledge about addon making in ArmA

2) have time... and patience

3) make new & full operational air addons

[Daniel 0]

Daniel @ Sep. 24 2007,19:00)][G-Shock], you do realise ArmA (and OFP from what i've heard) simulates autorotation to a usable degree don't you? It's saved my arse a few times.

Hey Daniel,

Can you go into more detail how to do this? I have tried to autorotate the following way, with an undamaged bird;

1 - turn off the engine

2 - Bottom the collective

3 - Angle nose down slightly

I cannot accomplish it so I must be doing something wrong.

If I turn off the engine, or if i'm fast enough if it gets shot out, I can hold "Z" and it keeps the rotors spinning. This way you can keep a bit of lift until you hit the bottom. Saves dropping like stone. Not sure how much different from reality this is but autorotation is without doubt a feature.

I have actually done this on a number of occasions, and flared before touching down and survived pretty much intact where I would usually have blown up. It's easy to test too. Just jump in a Blackhawk and place two enemy AA soldiers in your flightpath.

Autorotation Thread

[Beagle 684]

Quote[/b] ] It would be nice for the tanks to get tweaked a bit too anyone remember M1 tank platoon where you could lock tanks up and fire a laser to get range and the gun would automatically adjust onto the target plus you had laser detection so you knew if another tank was getting ready to fire on you.

That was a great game, "On the Way!"

I seem to remember that getting hull down was a lot easier in M1, yet in arma the barrel won't go down enough to make it so. I have no idea though which one is accurate, if any.

Hull down is posible since 1.07b because the negative elevation of the main gun ist 9° now, respective 5° on the T-72. This makes higher positions a real advantage now.