Wind Turbines For or against & why?

[Messiah 2]

denmark: 9 million persons

think you got your demographics a tad wrong, last time I checked we only numbered around 5-5.5 million.

all for wind turbines here - grew up in Denmark before moving to the UK and have since moved back to Copenhagen, and as Espectro said, they're part of the scenery here and have been for a long time.

to be honest, I like the look of them, and even though I live in a major city, one of the larger wind farms is located off the coast of Copenhagen, so its not a case of NIMBYism from me.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Hi Danial thats a good point any idea on predicted activity in europe if any? i read scotland gets some small ones at times.

Quote[/b] ]

You are aware that a cellphone is by it´s nature meant to send signals and frequently communicates with the mobile cell you are currently registered with ? Your computer doesn´t send signals like that, still it´s permanently emitting measurable elctrosmog. I guess you mix some things up here that are not to be mixed up from a logical point of view.

Yes m8 i am aware of the Diff i think i mixed up your Statement & you have just in turn mixed up my reply lol shall we scrub this one & leve our dear computers out of it?

Quote[/b] ]As for health reasons yeh it causes somthing called carcinogenesis, although this is not lethal on such a small level it can build up over a long period & lead to rapid spreading carcinogenic cells in your blood stream, & once it gets a foot hold the rest is luck where it hits you. (edit God forbid)

It is also i guese not so widly known that MF's can & dose cause Insomnia & other behavioral changes, as thats what your brain uses, same as TV Organisations they dont all use the same band width because it will screw up, well same is for your brain im afraid.(so how long did you say you lived near one?) hehe (Irons Post)

Again, you mix things up that are not to be mixed up. I guess you need to look up the differences between electromagnetical emissions, the power of the signal and pulsed microwave signals.

You are talking of a totally different pack of sox here.

Ok i added my post aswell & i do see some errors but what exactly are you trying to say? i reviewd it & think i should have added some things aswell but hey i was in a rush.

So again what topics have i got wrong, I only took a 3 & a half week course in radar operation, before i figured out it wasent well enough payed, & we only learned the general prinicples & about the basic subjects, that can change how it operates.

But i do know that an Electric Motor/charger has RF & EMF emissions, which have Documented effects on Biological & technological objects, & beyond all the advanced Theory's That Wind turbine over there fracks up my TV/Radio. however im one heavy damnd sleeper so it dont wake me up.

But i Understand if your one of these people Dont actuly belive Mobile Phones are damageing you every time you use them & are close to a Mast, hey the U.S Gov dont belive in Global warming its a crazy world, Laced with double think.

Quote[/b] ]Cool, now can we have some solid numbers with a link pls ?

Yeh Shure give me your Home/work adress I'll ask her to send A pack to you.

Might not be this years numbers though as she drones on about how they have to make reports & do a large sort of audit thing at end of year, Or as its a Public Right under UK freedom of Information act, you could ask your Local RPBS Centre or National Hertage Centre Birds & Bats Officer (uk) if they have any info on it localy or nationally.

Quote[/b] ]Technical progress and design is bound to the numbers of windmills built. The more are built, the faster the progress is.

well that being true & understandable, it still wont stop your local council,

(if you live in an Rural area that you like to keep rural & all your rights),

from slinging up a Cheap & "Cheary turbine. (wich is normaly Loud, with minimally regulated parts that produce an large amount of RF/EMF emmisions, & wont be replaced for 10-30 years plus!

However i never knew that about those silent blades, have they deployed any on civy aircraft yet? you dont need to trawl for links i belive you so carry on.

I did hear somthing about teh new Euro Jumbo jet being alot quieter & much more efficiant with fuel?

Quote[/b] ]Wrong again, it´s about big public acceptance aswell, if there is no acceptance the public will turn it´s back on that kind of technology. You are comparing apples with stones, as the costs of wind-turbine blades are in no way comparable to the costs of new jet-engines.

Im hardly wrong if its about "public acceptance aswell"

Sigh, Im not saying the BLADES are costing as much as as a new Silent engine turbine...

Although now that you mention it the Tech that makes Engines blades more quiet, also makes em more exspensive than normal engine blades, So by that rationale the same stands for Wind turbine blades, if not even marginably,

Which most councils would think is not a needed luxury, & would opt for the already not so nice Cheap & cheary.

And before they would even concider taking the more exspencive variant,

they would most likely want a study done on it localy, which would cost more money & they aint gonna do that, its only when the price weighs less than the proffits or its on a national program, which they get pre alocated money for a specific Item.

Quote[/b] ]Do you think the generation that witnessed the first highways and autobahn´s felt easy about them

Well if i was Polish or Czech round about that time yeh since they were used for hauling Tanks & military gear Primarily.

Quote[/b] ]This actually has very little to do with what I posted. You missed the point I guess.

To make it simple:

well Actuly It dose. you etehr just cant seem to Accept what im saying or dont Understand, (which i wouldent blame you for as my spelling when rushing is bad.)

same go's for my point.

Quote[/b] ]It´s about time people get used to the 21st century landscape changes.

I have Not any problem with it, it dont belong to me, But my land & surrounding habitats, I do have a say over, & have a right to live how i Please same go's for any of us.

I wanted to leve it a bit longer to show you but if you take a look at the poll I added Urban & Rural to answer for a reason...

count the Cumulative votes from Urban & then compare them with the Rural cumulative, then - 2 votes from retards that thought they were rural because they have some flowers on there balcony, & you will have an interesting number.

any one care to carry on what im talking about..

Quote[/b] ]Wouldn´t be that smart, don´t you think ?

Quote[/b] ]Quite amusing,

huh?

Quote[/b] ]but still you have to bear in mind that you actually do not use the generated power for your own house right now.

Because i dont have the money to buy the DIY parts, just yet.

But did you mean like Direct AC strain into the house Breaker?

Quote[/b] ]It´s much more efficient to sell the generated electricity to a provider.

How much money do you spend on power per month roughly?

Quote[/b] ]Did you plan how big that room had to be ? Did you think about the costs of the batteries needed to conserve the energy and did you keep in mind that the cycles of charge and discharge are rather limited ? From a cost/efficency side this will be a no-brainer, unless you only want to run a camping-fridge.

yes m8 i did a rough break down based on how much it would cost to do this, then set that against how much it costs for power bill/maintinance, & weighd in quality of mains power.

& it cuts clear after 10-15 years (i think it was less) but it WOULD be less if you add the current rate, Localy of power cost increases (which i dident do)

& Yes i did it, it was about 30+ Truck batteries. at Trade price.(whch was WAY more than i needed.)

But the cost i gave you was for 2nd hand Truck military battaries.

again how much are u paying? this i must hear.

I already told you & gave you a link to the site i used to calculate everythign that has adraw.

[wex-q 0]

BUZZARD @ Sep. 12 2007,22:00)]The problem with nuclear again is that nuclear fuel isn't cheap, it's a fuel that's not renewable AFAIK...

Indeed it is expensive (and hard to get the right typ of uranium), and indeed, it isn't renewable, but I saw a newscoverage of french scientist who came up with a solution so that they store the rods of uranium in some kind of bath (probably not just plain water) and can reuse them 1 more time after approx 5 years, leading to even more efficiency of todays nuclear powerplants.

Now we just need to sort out how to store it properly when we need to store it, and make safety of powerplants even better.

Although, I am not for neither water or windturbines, since they can destroy habitats and routes for fish.

In sweden we have alot of problems getting the salomon to move upstreams to mate, since there are waterturbines in the way, and the so called salomon-stairs they have made so salomons can jump up the damm and come out on the other side doesn't work as good as it should do.

Windturbines also mess up with the route some birds fly when they go to the southern hemisphere during winters, or when they are returning, meaning we can loose large part of (or whole) spieces (sp?) of birds.

But, then again. If a nuclear plant blows, we're basiclly doomed

[Daniel 0]

Gull Cull

Found the article.

[Sennacherib 0]

denmark: 9 million persons

think you got your demographics a tad wrong, last time I checked we only numbered around 5-5.5 million.

all for wind turbines here - grew up in Denmark before moving to the UK and have since moved back to Copenhagen, and as Espectro said, they're part of the scenery here and have been for a long time.

to be honest, I like the look of them, and even though I live in a major city, one of the larger wind farms is located off the coast of Copenhagen, so its not a case of NIMBYism from me.

yeah, sorry, this number was for Sweden.

i don't know where you live but when a guy will put 10 wing turbines near your home. you will like them less that happened at one of my friends.

economically: without interest excepted for people who sell the electricity to the national companies

for the environnment: a joke

this is just a fashion and a way of giving good conscience. i mean for the countries with a big population. but for a little country (with few population), yes this is a good alternative solution.

not a solution of long duration, because the consumption of energy doesn't cease to increase

[Messiah 2]

I agree for a large country it's not a viable solution on its own - it's perhaps viable for smaller communities of said large country, but deffinately not for powering all the homes in the US.

I live in central(ish) Copenhagen, a quick walk to the coast and I can sit and enjoy the view of the turbines doing their job. Like most things in life, there will be people who like the look of them, and people who don't. It's like any piece of Architecture, whatever merits it has, there are always two sides to its aesthetics.

economically, I would like to think those who agree or who are forced to have wind farms on their land will be compensated, or given a tax levy for providing such a service, although In retrospect I have a funny feeling no such thing happens. 'For the greater good' I expect is what they're told.

Someone could build 10 of them right next door if they so wished, as long as they don't make more noise that the Ambulances screaming their way to Rigshospitalet every 5 minutes, I doubt i'd ever notice

[Iron+Cross 0]

Daniel      good man! couldent be arsed trawling for the info.

Quote[/b] ]i don't know where you live but when a guy will put 10 wing turbines near your home. you will like them less    that happened at one of my friends.

Its worse when there 150+ feet high & over 80 of em (more on the way) & the planning dept wont even listen to how it already affects your life, buisness & how it will make it less enjoyable & take away more of your personal rights to enjoy your land..

Quote[/b] ]this is just a fashion and a way of giving good conscience. i mean for the countries with a big population. but for a little country (with few population), yes this is a good alternative solution.

Well why not plant tree's they produce o2/Ni & suck up Co2

I think ..1.. mature SS at about 15-25yrs old can Support 2 adults & 1 child with o2 for a whole year. (another one of those forestry e.u reports thingy's i read a while back.

Quote[/b] ]Like most things in life, there will be people who like the look of them, and people who don't.

If you notice the current trend of the poll...  

this is what i was exspecting as 70-85% of most populations live in what could technicaly be called an sub/urban environment.

(western nations)

will some one PLEASE pick up on my less than subtle hints about the poll, i dident add it because i wanted to know what people thought, i already knew how the poll would roughly go...

Quote[/b] ]whatever merits it has, there are always two sides to its aesthetics.

well from some one who dosent have them bareing over them I can emagine its aasthetics.

However when it, or they are without your concent hanging over & interfering with your life/buisness/pleasure, its a bit more Fundimental than "aesthetics".

Quote[/b] ]Someone could build 10 of them right next door if they so wished

"next door" "I live in central(ish) Copenhagen"  proves a point which people shoudl start realising is linked to the POLL  

[Messiah 2]

lol, well perhaps my point is a bit moot given my location, but wind turbines are rather prevelant around Copenhagen, not like where I moved from, Oxford, where I can't recall ever seeing one.

[Journeyman 0]

So some ppl like the sight of spinning blades and some don't, but we all enjoy electricity. The same ppl who don't like the sight and sound of aeroplanes but enjoy the benefits of flight!

I don't think the poll is going to be very informative as there are too many options that could be checked but only one is possible! I think we need to be implementing as many different means of alternative and renewable power as is possible and the types chosen will need to relate to the environment they will be situated. No point in putting solar panels up in Finland if they will only be useful for part of the year whereas the wind is more reliable. Likewise solar panels would be more useful than wind turbines in many tropical locations where the sun is the more reliable energy source.

Power from the sea is still mostly experimental, but will also have it's place especially in high tidal flow areas or wave power in those locations where the sea will have a good run out for wave generation to be good. For hydrogen power we need electricity to produce the hydrogen! This may be a good option for future electric (fuel cell) transport though.

Nuclear power was supposed to solve everything but it never did! There is a huge initial cost and then we have the problem of the waste. I'm not against it if it is properly implemented and managed, but life is never like that and there will always be accidents. Hydroelectric and geo thermal power should be better implemented too. It's all possible but the status quo (read economists) will always slow things down as will public acceptance of changes to their immediate environment!

Sure location sensitivity is important as is the welfare of the local wildlife, but these things can be overcome and is in no way as potentially problematic as the 'global' environmental outcome of continued fossil fuel usage.

...No one wants anything in their back yard, but everyone wants the product!

[red oct 2]

no option for nuclear energy? i live a probaly about 14-20 miles away from it. i can even see the steam comming from the cooling tower from my home.

i

[Thunnder Bunny 0]

Hmm, this is a hard one. I'm all for green energy, but when it interferes with my view of the green around me I get a little upset.

I live in a very rural area and wind gens would be kinda useless ,without cutting down large amounts of trees. But my local power co op has implemented wind energy in their power network, so technically I guess it's a good thing in the end.

I keep hearing about solar cells getting cheaper ...even getting to be the price of making paper. Solar film / laminate looks promising.

But there are other personal power gens available. There is a place here in Missouri I saw on TV that had loads of power making devices WIND , SOLAR , WATER pretty much covered. Wish I could remember the name of the place

The most interesting for me had a pond at the top of a hill, and a pond at the bottom. Hose connected them both in a loop, with a encased gen at the mid point. The name of the system was a SIV GEN if I remember right. It was used to charge storage batteries.

In the society we live in I just don't see any great leaps for green energy until we absolutely have to...Maybe a few CA and NY black outs would change that.

[Messiah 2]

blackouts are not going to affect people's attitudes towards green energy in the slightest - It will just make them demand more energy, which, unless we change our mind set, will come from the current arsenal of coal/gas/oil/nuclear power stations

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

no option for nuclear energy? i live a probaly about 14-20 miles away from it. i can even see the steam comming from the cooling tower from my home.

i

Yea, and where do they put the waste?

And more importantly - where will the waste be in 3000 years?

Just imagine the human race to secure a facility for 3000 years makes me laugh... We couldn't do it in 100 years, lol.

[brataccas 0]

I absaloutly love these things, they sound so scary when you go real close to them! I got a pic of them from my town in the distance:

[Daniel 0]

Good pic. Standing directly underneath the really big ones is very weird.

[soul_assassin 1750]

Quote[/b] ]Cool, but I hear Helicopters every now & then & they dont seem quieter specialy the military one's infact i'd sware they were louder than the civy ones. (so how longs this quiet roter tech been around?)

haha you misunderstand the difference between transonic speed M>0.7) and 50 km/h at blade tip? military need speed and lift so their blades and engines are completely different from civy ones. And they really never cared about noise reduction up till now i think its the NH-90 which has its revolutionary blades.

[Journeyman 0]

THIS ONE is my favourite! from these people! I just love the concept!

I've not seen any efficiency comparison tests with normal bladed turbines though. Although this type has to be quieter and probably more bird friendly.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Quote[/b] ]haha you misunderstand the difference between transonic speed M>0.7) and 50 km/h at blade tip? military need speed and lift so their blades and engines are completely different from civy ones. And they really never cared about noise reduction up till now i think its the NH-90 which has its revolutionary blades.

Uhm no I was speaking about blades in GENERAL whether it be Tubine's or Helli blades.

But you took my reply to a few posts back out of context, it relates to what i was replying to.

& people Did care about the noise since aircraft & windmills started poping up all over the place, its just the few who actuly have to "live" with them are ignored.

Hey Kite that dose look cool, but i still wouldent want one hanging over my home/land without my permission & getting nothing in return,for the trouble/asthetic disturbance.

[Dwarden 1125]

this poll is quite weird ...

i'm realistic person so i consider wind mills as good alternative IF it's worth build it (price / watt / year)

- clean source

(wind, sea waves, water, solar cells/mirrors(heat), nuclear, geotermal plants)

* yeah maybe You shocked i consider nuclear plants as clean but theirs polution can be stored and reused in future plants ...

- polution source

(coal, oil, gas plants)

coal is worst as not just dust ends in air but radioactive material within coal too (contrary to nuclear plants lol)

(irony is that biggest ash dumps can be now mined for uranium)

- effectivity

this is very tricky as lot of these so so called clean sources like windmills or solars cells based needs huge resources to be built and then theirs lifespan is too short and mainteance too high

- price

not everyone can afford newest types of windmills or solar cells

- unstability

tho being clean to surrounding yet dangerous nuclear plants are (human factor, technical error) that's why such plants deserve highest investments into technolgies security and staff

another dangerous class are water plants as dams ageing or may break due to natural disasters

[Messiah 2]

I'd be concerned with calling hydro electricity 'green' - sure, the electricity it produces is, but the construction of it, and its effects downstream can be rather devastating to local ecology and farmland.

[Dwarden 1125]

yeah i forgot to add that ... but i got it in mind ...

tho there are smaller types of hydros which negative effect is way lower (imagine them similar to windmill in effectivity)

[Iron+Cross 0]

Hey Dwarden have you Figured out what the poll's second meaning is ?

[Dwarden 1125]

Hey Dwarden have you Figured out what the poll's second meaning is ?

no ...

atm i'm puzzled if it's not easier to just close the thread to save some electricity ...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

this poll is quite weird ...

i'm realistic person so i consider wind mills as good alternative IF it's worth build it (price / watt / year)

- clean source

(wind, sea waves, water, solar cells/mirrors(heat), nuclear, geotermal plants)

* yeah maybe You shocked i consider nuclear plants as clean but theirs polution can be stored and reused in future plants ...

- polution source

(coal, oil, gas plants)

coal is worst as not just dust ends in air but radioactive material within coal too (contrary to nuclear plants lol)

(irony is that biggest ash dumps can be now mined for uranium)

- effectivity

this is very tricky as lot of these so so called clean sources like windmills or solars cells based needs huge resources to be built and then theirs lifespan is too short and mainteance too high

- price

not everyone can afford newest types of windmills or solar cells

- unstability

tho being clean to surrounding yet dangerous nuclear plants are (human factor, technical error) that's why such plants deserve highest investments into technolgies security and staff

another dangerous class are water plants as dams ageing or may break due to natural disasters

As stated earlier...... Where will the waste be in 3000 years? Will 'terrorists' have used them as targeting practice? Will we still be servicing them?

That's like asking tthe people around Ramses to secure his grave, and pass his final words generation through generation to us - and that we woulæd have his final words non-polluted.

Do you REALLY trust the human race that much?

I don't - just look at history, it's pretty obvious.

[Iron+Cross 0]

good point espectro, very good.

few words & alot of depth there totaly agree.

As for Dwarden.. i dont respond to threats well, particularly when there is no reason for it..so dont..  

As for the poll well the 2nd meaning for it imo, was that the cumulative urban vote's were more than the rural Negative votes, or (-3 votes for idiots that voted rural thinking they lived in the country side) if you include the cumulative Rural votes.

so if you do the maths, & count how many rural are against, & how many rural Urban people are for it, you should have a more accurate picture, couple that with the fact that most people who like them dont have to live under one..

& you get a very stark picture that should be reminiscent of the Wants of the majority or the Urban society rulling over the Lesser populated Rural Society, which under alot of Human rights laws in perticular the E.U could technicaly be conciderd

ETHNIC discrimination and exploitation

Or more basicly there are only a few hicks out there, lets chuck those nasty big things (whatever it is) out there, & if they complain well, there are more of us than there are of them, so we win by Force & by Voting power.

Thats the point.

It go's back to the core of the feudal system, & STILL EXISTS TODAY, China & regions of Afrika being some of the extream examples, but if you are a rural dweler you can bet your arse its some one from an urban environment & has Urban "Values" & an Urban perspective on things, that has a say on how Your life is run.

althogh MANY european countrys stll are heavily based on the Feudal system, including Old bonaparte's Upgrades.