New Bloc-Geopolitics

[Spokesperson 0]

They never dissolved NATO as was assumed after the Warszaw-pact was dissolved.

Now there's a new organization growing up in Asia. It's called the Shanghai Group / Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and is already beginning to serve as a counterbalance to NATO. A few weeks ago the member countries had a military training exercise in China and in the Urals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

After the US and UK decided to modernize their nuclear arsenals and install anti-missile defences in europe Russia and China has countered with increased military budgets and war arms production. So once again. This nonsense won't stop unless wars stop generating profits for those who run countries.

[Colossus 2]

It's nothing new that the Russian and Chinese army have combat training together. An alliance such as this didn't come to me as a surprise.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Well, they couldn't make a "War-Sow Pact II" for obvious reasons so they came up with something new... Well, it kinda makes sense, the world needs a Cold War to counter all the Global Warming!

[Jezza_NL 0]

The stated aims of the SCO is really just to counter American influence in South East Asia. Fair enough! Although at the moment largely symbolical, especially the proposed membership of Iran is really just meant to piss off America. It is also a reaction the proposed new US-missile shield, which goes to show how that silly shield will only further agrevate those it is meant to protect the US against.

[-Snafu- 77]

After the US and UK decided to modernize their nuclear arsenals and install anti-missile defences in europe.

According to the Sunday Times the anti-missile defences that are to be installed in Poland were by the request of the Polish government (by the request of those strange twins running the country). However I'm not sure about the one in the Czech Republic. In my opinion I think that the US wants to extend it's influence and Russia's objection to the anti-missile defences is to make sure it's influence counts. However Putin didn't do himself any favours by threatening to target Western Europe with Nuclear missiles.

You seem to assume that all of the West is evil. But of course Russia would never do anything bad. For example, send a man to London to poison an ex KGB agent with radioactive materiel that left a trail back to Russia.  

Relations are not great with Russia at this moment but to say there is a new Cold War is going too far.

[AfrographX 0]

I highly doubt the SCO will be able to be as strong as NATO any time soon. It's just Russia wanting to play big again.

[Spokesperson 0]

The missile shields were not requested by the cz and pol governments but they agreed to them. (They are both conservative, especially the polish one which almost is fascist). In CZ a vast majority of the people is against it though. Don't know about Poland.

Russia invited the US to share missile def shields with them. But the US disagreed. If it was meant to be against Iran and North Korea, why wouldn't they want to share with Russia and share the costs? It's simple. Russia is one of the targets.

The litvinenko case is not concluded yet. It's impossible to say who's guilty. It might as well be Russian oligarchs in the UK who recently threatened to coup russia, in the UK press, for instance.

Still, it's something that Russia has done before. But don't forget that this is common west crimes too: Coups, assassinations, sabotage, terrorism, oppression. But oddly enough nobody mentions it (here).

[-Snafu- 77]

The missile shields were not requested by the cz and pol governments but they agreed to them. (They are both conservative, especially the polish one which almost is fascist). In CZ a vast majority of the people is against it though. Don't know about Poland.

Russia invited the US to share missile def shields with them. But the US disagreed. If it was meant to be against Iran and North Korea, why wouldn't they want to share with Russia and share the costs? It's simple. Russia is one of the targets.

The litvinenko case is not concluded yet. It's impossible to say who's guilty. It might as well be Russian oligarchs in the UK who recently threatened to coup russia, in the UK press, for instance.

Still, it's something that Russia has done before. But don't forget that this is common west crimes too: Coups, assassinations, sabotage, terrorism, oppression. But oddly enough nobody mentions it (here).

You are wrong about Poland, the anti-missile site was requested by those twins running the country as a counter messure against Russia. It was reported in the Sunday Times. (Not specifically about the missiles but about the Polish twins in power. They feel threatened by Russia and annoyed that a gas(?) pipeline goes past their country to Germany. They see it as the treaty made by Germany and Russia in the late 30's before their country was carved up.)

I doubt that Russia could be a target as it is an anti-missile site. They probably don't want their sites in Russia as Putin would be seen as the one in control. What you forget is that it's all about image nowadays. Who is seen as being powerful, the one in control.

How is it impossoible to say who's guilty? There was a trail of radioactive materiel leading back to Russia. The Police are pretty certain who guy was who did it. London has some of the best detectives in the world. What do you mean by might as well? Does his death mean nothing to you? He stood up against corrupt officials and he was a British citizen for fuck sake. Radioactive materiel was taken into the UK from Russia and the poor guy died a painful death.

Sure, the 'west' have committed some terrible crimes. But need I mention Stalin? What about the numerous puppet governments installed by them in the various countries they 'liberated'? Communism - for the people: what a load of bullshit. Same goes for Democracy, all the parties are basically the same because they are all chasing after the most popular political stances of the voters. There is little to no real choice.

Anyway, I doubt the SCO will be anything big or powerful. I just can't see Russia and China being the best of pals. I'm sure Russia would love to see China's growing power dwindle. As would China celebrate at seeing Russia's influence disappear.

[Spokesperson 0]

I very much doubt that the idea of a missile shield against "terrorist states" (ie Iran and NK) is polish. US suggested it and Poland accepted (they get some money + they get the chance to shine US boots). Just like denmark did when they sent a submarine to Iraq.

About Litvinenko. Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. "Stood up against corrupt officials", yes he did. But he was corrupt himself.

Communism is democracy. No country has ever been communist and never claimed to be this. Western democracy is just as much democratic as the democracy in Athens and in the 19th centry. The ones who've got the power in a country are those who own it, factories, the press, companies etc.

The USSR and China didn't get along well since the death of Stalin. Russia and China is another story.

Sure Stalin is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths (indirectly millions). That's bad of course. But if one counts the victims of capitalism(/liberalism-conservatism-fascism) the death toll is sligthly bigger. So in comparison there's no big difference when it comes to deaths.

[-Snafu- 77]

I very much doubt that the idea of a missile shield against "terrorist states" (ie Iran and NK) is polish. US suggested it and Poland accepted (they get some money + they get the chance to shine US boots). Just like denmark did when they sent a submarine to Iraq.

About Litvinenko. Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. "Stood up against corrupt officials", yes he did. But he was corrupt himself.

Communism is democracy. No country has ever been communist and never claimed to be this. Western democracy is just as much democratic as the democracy in Athens and in the 19th centry. The ones who've got the power in a country are those who own it, factories, the press, companies etc.

The USSR and China didn't get along well since the death of Stalin. Russia and China is another story.

Sure Stalin is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths (indirectly millions). That's bad of course. But if one counts the victims of capitalism(/liberalism-conservatism-fascism) the death toll is sligthly bigger. So in comparison there's no big difference when it comes to deaths.

I suggest you read what I posted very carefully as you seem to have trouble understanding. The Polish government requested those missile sites as a deterrent to Russia. This is because Russia runs a pipeline to Germany that goes past Poland and not through Poland. This is what The Sunday Times magazine reported. You also seem to be contradicting yourself. At first you say that the US has placed those missiles there to 'target' Russia. Now you are saying it is to counter missile's fired from a terrorist state. Make up your mind.

Corrupt himself? In what way? I doubt it would be worse than those Russian officials and it hardly warrants his murder. Starnge perception of reality you have. It sounds like you are saying he deserved to die. Sounds fascist. Moreover as I said before a radioactive substance was taken to Britain from Russia. Do you realise how serious that incident alone is?

Russian - Chinese relations may be better than they were before but China's growing power is a threat to Russia. I'm surprised the 'alliance' is called the 'Shanghai Group' as this seems to give the idea that China is in control of it, I can't beleive Russia went for that. But they're definitely not holding hands old bean.

Communist dictators are responsible for millions of deaths and all you have to say is that's bad? The communist invented Kalashnikov rifle has killed more people than any other gun in the 20th century and in the 21st I imagine it's still top of the table. Then you say capitalism is worse. How old are you? 7? Stop playing the blame game. Your last statement is crazy. I don't know if I'm to laugh or to be shocked.

[Commando84 0]

i heard from a from a friends friend at a party last week actually that he had some plans to maybe go to russia and try to join the russian army to get military training, he said he had bribed a russian official or something too but he also said he heard that people sometimes died in russian army due to hard exercises with real ammo shoot above their heads and he was thinking that he had a 10% chance of getting killed

[Spokesperson 0]

The missile shield was not a polish initiative. But they agreed to it.

The objective of the missile shield is said to be to counter Iranian missiles. Why would Poland want that? Why would they ask the US about defence against Iran? It's not their idea (if not Poland and the US have a deal to lie).

The target of the missile shield is naturally Russia. But that's not what the US says. Otherwise Russia would be invited to help, they even offered help but it was refused.

There's quite a lot that suggests that Litvinenko himself is a criminal. He didn't deserve to die, but to be taken into custody. Unfortunately the UK lets criminals like Berezjovsky and terrorists walk the streets. Radioactive substance. Sure. But it doesn't mean that it has to be the idea of the state of Russia. It might as well be russian UK-based oligarchs or other criminals that want to make Russia look worse than it is.

What would Russia gain by killing Litvinenko? Nothing. He was no threat of any sort. But it definately makes Russia look bad. That's something that exile Russians who want back to power want. They want to cause unrest and coup the nation. (That's what Berezjovsky himself said).

What has Kalashnikov to do with communism? I guess then the inventor of the sword/knife/first pistol must be more to blame. Those were definately not living in a socialist country. Less people have been killed by kalashnikovs (or guns made in the socialist countries) than guns made in the western bloc countries. So with the same logics if we extend it, your argument is turned against you.

Besides Stalin is the second most popular figure in Russian politics (after Putin). About 50% approve of his policies. What he did is exaggerated by our liberal media. He killed a lot of people, that's true and regrettable, but it's nothing exceptional if you relate it to other crimes against the humanity that were common during the time. Churchill (initially a supporter of Mussolini) for example had hundreds of thousands slaughtered in the terror bombings of Germany and oppression in the third world. The atom bombs had hundreds of thousands of victims as well. Other right wing pro-corporate leaders like Hitler had bloody wars started and millions of people murdered. In the US millions of indians were murdered. Black people were hanged and executed 30 years after the war still. The entire liberal market system is to this day having millions of people starve. Third world countries get exploited and their people abused.

[Jack-UK 0]

BUZZARD @ Aug. 31 2007,12:24)]Well, they couldn't make a "War-Sow Pact II" for obvious reasons so they came up with something new... Well, it kinda makes sense, the world needs a Cold War to counter all the Global Warming!  

Well i guess there's one solution!

Shield ourselves from the sun with a bunch of mushroom clouds

[-Snafu- 77]

The objective of the missile shield is said to be to counter Iranian missiles. Why would Poland want that? Why would they ask the US about defence against Iran? It's not their idea (if not Poland and the US have a deal to lie).

There's quite a lot that suggests that Litvinenko himself is a criminal. He didn't deserve to die, but to be taken into custody. Unfortunately the UK lets criminals like Berezjovsky and terrorists walk the streets. Radioactive substance. Sure. But it doesn't mean that it has to be the idea of the state of Russia. It might as well be russian UK-based oligarchs or other criminals that want to make Russia look worse than it is.

What would Russia gain by killing Litvinenko? Nothing. He was no threat of any sort. But it definately makes Russia look bad. That's something that exile Russians who want back to power want. They want to cause unrest and coup the nation. (That's what Berezjovsky himself said).

What has Kalashnikov to do with communism? I guess then the inventor of the sword/knife/first pistol must be more to blame. Those were definately not living in a socialist country. Less people have been killed by kalashnikovs (or guns made in the socialist countries) than guns made in the western bloc countries. So with the same logics if we extend it, your argument is turned against you.

Besides Stalin is the second most popular figure in Russian politics (after Putin). About 50% approve of his policies. What he did is exaggerated by our liberal media. He killed a lot of people, that's true and regrettable, but it's nothing exceptional if you relate it to other crimes against the humanity that were common during the time. Churchill (initially a supporter of Mussolini) for example had hundreds of thousands slaughtered in the terror bombings of Germany and oppression in the third world. The atom bombs had hundreds of thousands of victims as well. Other right wing pro-corporate leaders like Hitler had bloody wars started and millions of people murdered. In the US millions of indians were murdered. Black people were hanged and executed 30 years after the war still. The entire liberal market system is to this day having millions of people starve. Third world countries get exploited and their people abused.

Here we go again back to square one. Honestly mate I don't really get the bold words as it is YOU that cannot read. I have already explained it TWICE. You can read why POLAND would WANT those missile sites in their country. I'm not repeating myself AGAIN, unlike you I'm not going to be a broken record.

Fair enough. I'll back down from this after having read more on the case.

Strike more fear into people who have betrayed them? Show their might? Prove that they are still capable of being a proper world power? etc. Just because Berezjovsky said that didn't mean he did it. I really doubt the death of an outspoken agent will cause unrest in the whole of Russia. A coup isn't an easy thing to do you know. You really need some proper backing from the Russian military.

Ahhh the good old reliable AK. What has it to do with Communism? It was fielded by Communist armies, issued to Leftist rebels. It has the ethos of communism in it. Mass produced, cheap and extremely reliable. Moreover it is often called the 'people's rifle'. Definitely sounds leftist to me. What you forget about the AK is that pretty much anybody can operate it with very little training. The AK can be as dirty as hell and be made out of various parts from different countries such as China, Ukraine etc. That is why it is so popular. Moreover gunpowder and swords/knifes were invented a long time ago when Monarchs ruled, before the modern democracies existed. And your wrong again old chap. The AK has killed more people than any other rifle in the 20th century? Want to know why? It is used by many people and countries because it is easy to use and extremely reliable. So it seems your logic is wrong and my argument did not turn against me.

Well after much thought on your last point and to previous books/lessons I have learned/read is that killing for power, exploitation etc. is done by people of all ideologies. It's human beings that do these things not one particular political ideology.

This argument is going round in circles. Why don't I just forget what you post and you forget what I post and we just agree to disagree! Well you will probaly respond with some ad hoc counter arguments to get the last word in but I am done with this. Otherwise we will just be going round in circles wasting each others time.