satchel radar

[dayglow 2]

will this ever be addressed? Since OFP it makes sabatour missions more frustrating than necessary.

Playing the convoy single mission I placed the mines and all the satchel charges along the road. The first BMP drives over the mine and goes boom. All is good, I wait until the Ural trucks are over the charges and blow them and they go bye-bye. Great.

Now there is just the trail BMP, but as soon as I see it, it's already firing on my position on the ridge above the road. WTF? I'm proned out and under a tree in long grass, yet it knows exactly where I am as soon as it gets a sight line. This has been a problem ever since OFP and I really wish it was fixed.

[hoz 0]

Try creating a reproducing mission and submit to the BTS with a good description. It may just get looked at if the information is there.

[Heatseeker 0]

I thought this was already fixed in some patch?

It wasnt a problem in OPF...

[BigWolf 0]

Yea, IMO, this is a big problem in ArmA

If you fire ANYTHING*, the AI will automatically know your position**, and will start firing on you if they have line of fire on your position (or sometimes, just throw inch-perfect grenades at you)

In reality, the only time your position should become known, is if the AI can actually see you

Not even the sound of a weapon gives away somebodies exact position, only their approximate position (which may lead you to spotting future shots/muzzle smoke, other details as you look harder)

So, of course, the AI should just investigate / watch the area from which the sound occured, rather than just knowing where you are

* This includes Satchels/Mines & SD weapons, though with SD weapons, it appears to only be if they have a line of sound on you or the target (ie. nothing solid between the weapon or the target, not sure which atm)

** This is something that I think is based on Line of Sight and/or distance between you and the AI

My humble opinion, of course

[gazmen 0]

Now there is just the trail BMP, but as soon as I see it, it's already firing on my position on the ridge above the road. WTF? I'm proned out and under a tree in long grass, yet it knows exactly where I am as soon as it gets a sight line.

Thermal scope (I.R view like Splinter Cell 4 or Vegas), of course in this game there is not such think in engine, so the A.I simulate it.

(Have you ever see IR view in Aliens vs Predator or Predator 2 movies ?)

[4 IN 1 0]

what version you are using?

[twisted 128]

in my experience this is much less in the latest beta patch 1.07 or similar. making AI much more engaging to play against.

of course if you do fire then remember to move or they will eventually build a pretty clear picture where you are and then shoot you in the head.

anyone else confirm?

[HamishUK 0]

Now there is just the trail BMP, but as soon as I see it, it's already firing on my position on the ridge above the road. WTF? I'm proned out and under a tree in long grass, yet it knows exactly where I am as soon as it gets a sight line.

Thermal scope (I.R view like Splinter Cell 4 or Vegas), of course in this game there is not such think in engine, so the A.I simulate it.

Your just making excuses now for poor AI scripting.

I get the same. All you have to do is blow the bridge in the campaign mission (forget it's name) and the vehicles turrets are already pointing directly at you (even though I was behind a wall)/

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

It is a known bug. Blow somthing up with mines or stachels and almost any AI at island knows your position even if you changed your position out of LOS of any AI.

[gazmen 0]

in my experience this is much less in the latest beta patch 1.07 or similar. making AI much more engaging to play against.

of course if you do fire then remember to move or they will eventually build a pretty clear picture where you are and then shoot you in the head.

anyone else confirm?

Do you think that go in war, is happy think ? That you will niver get shot ? Of course you will get shot... Don't look at middle east war like Irak 1991, those have old tank & plane, & can not fight against new U.S tech, also they can not hide in the desert and arab are bad soldier... Same about the Afghanistan those Rebel are using AK47 against Special Forces using M82 (Thermal & Night scoped)...

Sure if you were a soldier attacking a European country using russian new tech weapons, you will be probably be hit...

If you are hided in a bush & if A.I hit you, believe that those A.I are using Thermal Scope / Goggle

[Balschoiw 0]

Tested it yesterday with mixed results.

It seems to be fixed at parts.

I placed 3 satchels at 2 different locations and moved away very far to detonate.

When it goes boom they will go out to investigate towards the locations where the satchel has been but not directly go after you which was the case with earlier versions.

What I have noticed is that it looks like a raised knowsabout value among the enemies changes the reaction. If they were able to get a short glimpse on you during placing the satchels they will most likely go to your "assumed" position after you blow them. I also used a searchlight to get the AI "thoughts" in the map and sometimes (when they have seen something suspecious before) the searchlight will point into your direction when the satchels blow.

Conclusion: They do NOT automatically know where you are when using satchels but they have some pretty accurate guesses when you have been visible to them before.

It´s different to OFP, in fact the raised awareness is nothing magic but something logical.

Still, with a decent approach I can put a satchel as close as 10 meters to a guard, move away, blow it and they know nothing about my position. It´s a matter of covered approach and not being seen by any of them.

In Arma you have to move farther away than in OFP to not get spotted. That´s the whole deal.

I have been wondering about the chance of getting detected when blowing the satchel, but after setting up a testmap I understand that it´s NOT the process of triggering the satchels but the fact that they have had a glimpse on me before I blew it up.

Test it in your editor.

[4 IN 1 0]

Tested it yesterday with mixed results.

It seems to be fixed at parts.

I placed 3 satchels at 2 different locations and moved away very far to detonate.

When it goes boom they will go out to investigate towards the locations where the satchel has been but not directly go after you which was the case with earlier versions.

What I have noticed is that it looks like a raised knowsabout value among the enemies changes the reaction. If they were able to get a short glimpse on you during placing the satchels they will most likely go to your "assumed" position after you blow them. I also used a searchlight to get the AI "thoughts" in the map and sometimes (when they have seen something suspecious before) the searchlight will point into your direction when the satchels blow.

Conclusion: They do NOT automatically know where you are when using satchels but they have some pretty accurate guesses when you have been visible to them before.

It´s different to OFP, in fact the raised awareness is nothing magic but something logical.

Still, with a decent approach I can put a satchel as close as 10 meters to a guard, move away, blow it and they know nothing about my position. It´s a matter of covered approach and not being seen by any of them.

In Arma you have to move farther away than in OFP to not get spotted. That´s the whole deal.

I have been wondering about the chance of getting detected when blowing the satchel, but after setting up a testmap I understand that it´s NOT the process of triggering the satchels but the fact that they have had a glimpse on me before I blew it up.

Test it in your editor.

so can i say that its just that they are.....er.....smarter(in guessing your positions) then us?

[Balschoiw 0]

Only if you are exposing yourself in the process of placing the satchels too much or think that 70m´s between you and them with direct LOS is enough whne you blow them. If you stay well hidden all the time and they do not have any suspicion they will not know where you are and will not search you. The good old habbit of watching your satchels while they blow from close distance is over.

Hide yourself all the time, when approaching, when placing and finally when detonating the satchel and everything is cool.

It´s quite natural that they will start their search where they have seen something suspicious before and they will conduct area searches this time. It´s Arma If you expose yourself just to see the fireball it´s your own fault. Most of the times I lean around corners, trees , rocks to see if the target is on the satchel, get to normal, hidden stance to not expose anything of my body and blow.

[maddogx 13]

No, there is definitely some kind of "cheating AI" in there. I've had some really surreal things happen to me, also on the convoy ambush mission.

It seems to be connected with your "danger rating" - i.e. if you have destroyed many enemy vehicles, the remaining enemies can spot you more easily, to the point of magically knowing your location.

Also, enemy tanks sometimes magically spot you if you take out your AT launcher. Here's a situation I once had:

- I had destroyed a tank and some trucks with satchels and mines. The enemy had not seen me.

- I snuck up on an enemy BMP. I could only see the rear end.

- I take out my AT launcher.

- The BMP suddenly jumps about 3 meters backward, rotates its turret about 90 degrees to look at me and fires a single shot into my head.

No joke.

[4 IN 1 0]

seems there is more new stuff needed to add into dslyecxi's TTP

thx for testing it

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]- I snuck up on an enemy BMP. I could only see the rear end.

While the commander in the tank has a 360° view he will use if he´s scanning for the guy who took out all the stuff....

Quote[/b] ]thx for testing it

It would be good if all who report "bugs" did that as it sometimes shows that it´s not a bug but simply the result of the changed AI patterns.

They have got smarter in some aspects.

If they had a "unknown man at 100" and then have a blast there they obviously realize that the "unknown" man was not Lilly bringing the laundry.

[maddogx 13]

Even if he did see me, which is unlikely since I was hiding several trees and could only see the BMP's rear hatch, I was crouching there for about 5 seconds during which the BMP did not see me. But at the very moment I had the AT launcher in hand the BMP literally JUMPED backwards and opened fire within half a second.

I've tested this a few times - it ain't a coincidence. The AI has some unusual abilities.

[Balschoiw 0]

Can you setup a test-mission to reproduce this and share it ?

[maddogx 13]

Can you setup a test-mission to reproduce this and share it ?

I will later when I get home. I've been wanting to experiment with this anyway.

[Balschoiw 0]

Thx

[4 IN 1 0]

sometimes i wish i could see what AIs see

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]sometimes i wish i could see what AIs see

You somewhat can. Hint the knowsabout value of a unit about you and you will see when he detects you or has some suspicious moments.

[4 IN 1 0]

........i only how how to creat a simple mission m8....

[maddogx 13]

Quote[/b] ]sometimes i wish i could see what AIs see

You somewhat can. Hint the knowsabout value of a unit about you and you will see when he detects you or has some suspicious moments.

Ok, after about half an hour, trying to reproduce the AI behaviour I witnessed, I must admit defeat.

I tested it by hinting a BMP-2s knowsAbout value of me, whenever it changed. If I blew up a few tanks when the BMP was in the vicinity (but couldn't see me), its knowsAbout value was only raised to 1.5, which probably means something like "it knows I'm there somewhere", because I could see it was looking around for me.

It appears the magical AI I experienced was somehow scripted in the mission I played.

After some further testing, I could gather some info on the knowsAbout values:

0: AI doesn't know you exist

0.1-1.4: AI thinks you exist, but isn't sure where

1.5: AI knows you exist and that you are nearby

1.6-2.2: AI is increasingly sure of your position

2.25: AI knows where you are

2.3-3.9: AI knows more about what class you are

4: AI knows everything about you

regards

MadDogX

[Second 0]

sometimes i wish i could see what AIs see

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">100011101010101100011010101.....(Few thousands 1s and 0s).... 101010100100101

I don't have very much experience with binary, but isn't that pretty much what AI sees? I quess i don't like to see that for too long: Gives headache.