Suppressionscript-pack

[zwobot 22]

@Nepumuk: It must be perfect then... ( )

Sure. I like it and there is nothing comparable (yet). Of course it is suboptimal to do this stuff with scripts/functions instead of more hardcoded to the game with improved functionality.

Anyway it seems to me as if the recovery of the squad from enemy fire is still a bit buggy. Maybe it's the AI's fault...

But this suppression and morale thingy seems to be highly unlikely to be modeled someday in the near future.

[Second 0]

Anyway it seems to me as if the recovery of the squad from enemy fire is still a bit buggy. Maybe it's the AI's fault...

But this suppression and morale thingy seems to be highly unlikely to be modeled someday in the near future.

What do you mean with that? Do they act weird? Couple of things which i'm thinking: They are set to yellow-combatmode and aware behaviour after recovery (which is going to get changed)... Or are you meaning that when leader shouts default-"clear" they still remain under "broken" or "panicking" statuses and do not recover instantly...

I will probably do next version of it and then halt because i'm trying to prevent from over-doing it too much...

Anyways next version takes time and i'm waiting response from one guy who hopefully can light up more about realistic suppression and it's effects... + some kind missiondesigner's hintlist, because there are some thing which have to be done differently.

[Second 0]

I'm really enjoying this

Any plans to make this a mod so that you get get suppression fire going in everything SP? Look foward to next release with 'cover' enhanced.

Glad to hear...

Unfortunately i don't have time to mod it in near future and i don't understand a bit about that thing... Dear Ofpforum maybe or someone else? I would be very glad too if that would be possible

That 'cover' thing seems to work better than default in urban areas, but it might be that locations where i've tested it just are good for AI: Lot's of natrual cover like bushes and trees

[NeMeSiS 11]

I'm really enjoying this

Any plans to make this a mod so that you get get suppression fire going in everything SP? Look foward to next release with 'cover' enhanced.

Glad to hear...  

Unfortunately i don't have time to mod it in near future and i don't understand a bit about that thing... Dear Ofpforum maybe or someone else? I would be very glad too if that would be possible  

Well what i did only took a few minutes (otherwise i wouldnt have done it).

I openend the characters.pbo, converted the config.bin to .cpp, under 'class CAManBase' i added

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> class eventhandlers

{

init = "_this exec ""\NEM_scripts\Second_suppress_l.sqs"""

};

And repboed the folder.

Furthermore i made a .pbo containing all your scripts called NEM_scripts.pbo

Because the .cpp would call it on every unit and we only one want 1 script running per group we only let it run on the leader of the group, so i changed the beginning of Second_suppress_l.sqs to

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">~random 1

_grp = _this select 0

? (leader group _grp) != _grp: exit

_grp = group _grp

?(count _this >= 1):_det = _this select 1

?(count _this >= 2):_multip = _this select 2

_det2 = 0 + _det

_multip2 = 0

?(_det2 > 0): _grp allowFleeing 0

?(_multip2 <= 1): _multip2 = 1

_firstshot = true;  _first_bad = true; _first_mild = true; _sec_bad = true;

_bullets = 0

_skill_bank = skill (units _grp select 0)

_a = 0

_unitoc = count units _grp

etc etc etc

Because i changed the path to NEM_scripts we need to change all exec "seconds default foldername\Suppression_result.sqs" to exec "NEM_scripts\Suppression_result.sqs".

Save it, pbo it and it should work, you can change NEM_scripts to anything you want, but remember that the pbo name and path should be called the same...

[zwobot 22]

What do you mean with that? Do they act weird?

Yes they act weird. The leader stays porne without and ordering single units to engage targets. The squad quite widely spreaded when the recovery hint appears but the squad does not fall into formation agian.

I'm going to test it again to feed you with more details if possible.

[Second 0]

What do you mean with that? Do they act weird?

Yes they act weird. The leader stays porne without and ordering single units to engage targets. The squad quite widely spreaded when the recovery hint appears but the squad does not fall into formation agian.

I'm going to test it again to feed you with more details if possible.

Hmm... That is weird indeed. I haven't had troubles of anykind with recovering, after running up against that earlier bug you mentioned... Has this happened only once or many times? Did they reach panic or broken statuses, or were they just in pinned down or shot at statuses?

But AI seems to have bad habit to ignore or not be able to move to/from some locations.

Or then it's problem with hard-coded fleeing values: they sometimes (rarely) didn't recover from it atall in OFP, they just got "stucked" to their last waypoint. I had to replay bunch of missions because of that. That atleast sounds same that what you have withnessed, more than it fits to script's mechanism...

Well thanks again, i'll keep eye on that aswell.

@Ofpforum: That seems simple! Thanks!

[zwobot 22]

Hmm... That is weird indeed. I haven't had troubles of anykind with recovering, after running up against that earlier bug you mentioned... Has this happened only once or many times? Did they reach panic or broken statuses, or were they just in pinned down or shot at statuses?

But AI seems to have bad habit to ignore or not be able to move to/from some locations.

I haven't tested it much so maybe don't take it too serios yet.

The squad's status was pinned at worst (if you can trust the hint). I'd rather say it is hardcoded AI behaviour, I haven't checked your the content of your scripts yet.

[Second 0]

I think too that it's AI's hardcoded fault... There's not such thing in script (v1.1) that would affect to that. Even if there would be issues in ArmA's "scriptreading" capacity. Example: I have one script structure which requires 20 scripts as those are ment to run something like dynamic war... Not a single issue (besides my brainfarts which need to be corrected) with it either... But pathfinding, only rarely, can cramp it's working too:

They simply get stucked sometimes expacely in urban areas but i've seen it happen in woods too... If they have "red" combatmode, which suppression script uses lots. With tensily build areas and ArmA's pathfinding it can be trouble (once leader caught stucked near trashcan without visible obstacles! )... And same applies to fleeing, they don't act same as in OFP anymore it seems: they seek fleeing spots acording to situation and only sometimes flee to previos waypoint... New advanced AI seems to bring some troubles as AI isn't as predictable as in OFP. Combined with pathfinding...

Hints are reliable, but ofcourse they're displayed only for players group

[zwobot 22]

Do you use "red" combatmode when a squad is suppressed? I think this is problematic as red combatmode means engage at will which makes AI ignore the formation more or less.

Now that is something I would expect from suppressed squad (ignoring formation) but it can lead to unwelcomed AI behaviour nevertheless.

[Second 0]

There is simple explanation for "red"-combatmode: Whole idea of suppression scrpts is ruined if "red" is changed "yellow" when they should act like under suppression. Scripts will reset groups combatmode to "yellow" when they recover from suppression.

And by my experience problems are quite rare. I've been running big scale test-battles in biggest cities and no pathfinding errors or stuckings haven't happened.

@Ofpforum: That config-thing works nice

[Second 0]

Okay now... Version 1.25 has been released. First post edited acordingly.

Here's quotes:

Quote[/b] ]What's new since v1.1:

-Two extra example missions which i had fun playing with... No briefing added or anything.

-hints for missioneditors, how to do some things differently than usually

-Take cover-script (suppression_cover.sqs) for 'panic' and broken', which should make them to stick in cover better than default take cover

-Ability to disable all suppression scripts in mission by command 'disable_suppression_scripts = true'',

-Quite many thing have been changed/tweaked:

*Resistance of suppression is determed by skill level: Novices can't take much when experts takes many close shots before affected even little. and they recore from it faster... Experts and veterans recovers very fast from it if not under constant fire.

*Hints have been changed to be more readible

*When units have been shot at and gained suppression and recovered from it, their suppression resistance grows a bit, should model something like selfconfidence.

Example missions don't hold briefings or anything. They are usersmissions so that player can watch things from different angles.

[Dwarden 1125]

is there any roof limit for selfconfidence ?

aka to avoid novices turn elite just by MG wasting 2000 around him ...

[Second 0]

is there any roof limit for selfconfidence ?

aka to avoid novices turn elite just by MG wasting 2000 around him ...

Basically selfcofidence-boost is applied only when they suffer from casualities (and it doesn't affect to their actual skilllevels, they remain novices). if group has lost ,lets say, half of it's men, it is possible that they sort of "forget" their casulities (or part of them). But it's highly unlikely that they "forget" casualities compelitely: It requires lots of incoming fire and recovery cycles. Still they can be suppressed by bullets and shells as earlier: They just forget those casualities.

There are three ways to increase suppression of group: Shooting at them or causing them casualities or both.

Hopefully this covers what you are after... I have massive headache at the moment.

Incoming fire and recovery cycles are like this:

1. group has been fired

2. group haven't been under fire in about one minute

3. group recovers (and selfcofidence is raised a bit aka forget that johnny boy was good guy when he lived )

that was one cycle.

4. group has been fired

5. group haven't been under fire in about one minute

6. group recovers (and selfcofidence is raised a bit aka forget that johnny boy had wife who waited him to come home )

that was second cycle.

7. group has been fired

8. group haven't been under fire in about one minute

9. group recovers (and selfcofidence is raised a bit aka "who's johnny?" )

that was third cycle.

[Dwarden 1125]

yes that covers all , thx

[zwobot 22]

I have just played some quick missions in the editor with the latest scripts and I like it

I was able to defeat 2 or 3 enemy squads whereas my 9 man squad only suffered 2 kills and 1 or 2 injured.

[Second 0]

I have just played some quick missions in the editor with the latest scripts and I like it

I was able to defeat 2 or 3 enemy squads whereas my 9 man squad only suffered 2 kills and 1 or 2 injured.

Same thing here Positions from where group can send big amount of fire to enemy's neck seems to be very important aspect to overcome bigger size of opponent but when defending positions are bad for consetrated firepower result (like forrests, as they break line-of-sight very easily) turns out to favor attacker who can use bigger amount of fire against few visible defenders (while rest of defenders get pinned down, panicking and eventually fleeing). I've been banging my head to wall because of that (as i love forrest fights). Spruces expacely breaks LOS as AI lying under spruce can't see his own hand easily!

[Zendjir 0]

I just tried the scripts and I'm very impressed! I have combined the script with a lower accuracy setting in the Armaprofile file. Battles are very slow and intense with constant firing. Just the way I like it . I might set te multiplier a bit higher though to compensate for the increased suppression due to the increased volume of fire caused by the lower accuracy.

I believe ArmA might have given us the tools to finally do something about the horrid stock-AI.

[frederf 0]

If you're having problems with the stock flee function maybe you can write an ancillary one (called retreat or something) that makes them fall back to last waypoint? Or maybe 200m in direction of last waypoint?

I just heard you had problems with fleeing sometimes they hide instead of fall back.

[Second 0]

If you're having problems with the stock flee function maybe you can write an ancillary one (called retreat or something) that makes them fall back to last waypoint? Or maybe 200m in direction of last waypoint?

Fleeing ain't problem... I'm just wondering that how it works... Maybe they start to flee to random places when they don't have previous waypoints enough far to pullback (they wouldn't get away from enemy fire if they flee there) or known enemy is in direction of previous waypoint, i'm not sure how it works. But in OFP, if i rember right, they don't flee at all if they don't have waypoints or waypoint is is direction of known enemy.

Quote[/b] ]I just heard you had problems with fleeing sometimes they hide instead of fall back.

But this i don't get I don't recall saying anything like that (has my english made a trick or two when i've been writing?). What i ment to write is this: when fleeing or searching for hiding places they might get into places from where they don't find way out.

Fleeing should override hiding by default. Atleast that's what i noticed.

Zendjir said:

Quote[/b] ]I believe ArmA might have given us the tools to finally do something about the horrid stock-AI.

I'm converting this to OFP... But there are certainly limits, which is pity

[frederf 0]

And same applies to fleeing, they don't act same as in OFP anymore it seems: they seek fleeing spots acording to situation and only sometimes flee to previos waypoint...

This is what I was responding to.

[Second 0]

And same applies to fleeing, they don't act same as in OFP anymore it seems: they seek fleeing spots acording to situation and only sometimes flee to previos waypoint...

This is what I was responding to.

Okay now i understand.

No, it doesn't seem to be problem with scripts, it's problem with ArmA's hard-coded AI's pathfinding issues. Which, luckily, doesn't seem to be too severe/freguent: I have run up against it few times in small areas where is lots of buildings and only narrow pathways.

Were these scripts used or not doesn't matter, as it might happen in both cases... Atleast by my understandment.

[zwobot 22]

I just tried the scripts and I'm very impressed! I have combined the script with a lower accuracy setting in the Armaprofile file. Battles are very slow and intense with constant firing.

That's waht I like too. But your squad can run out of ammo quickly during such a firefight because it is very hard to control the AI rate of fire in ArmA - even more than in Ofp. Damn AI ignores hold fire commands once the firing has started

BIS really should work on the command interface and give us some more options there like rate/method of fire, fire sectors and so on.

[boecko 0]

I just tried the scripts and I'm very impressed! I have combined the script with a lower accuracy setting in the Armaprofile file. Battles are very slow and intense with constant firing.

That's waht I like too. But your squad can run out of ammo quickly during such a firefight because it is very hard to control the AI rate of fire in ArmA - even more than in Ofp. Damn AI ignores hold fire commands once the firing has started

BIS really should work on the command interface and give us some more options there like rate/method of fire, fire sectors and so on.

Well, vote for it

0002218: AI ignores HOLD FIRE when detected - Armed Assault Community Bugtracker

I've made another request, referencing this thread:

0002466: implementation of suppressive fire - Armed Assault Community Bugtracker

Regards

Boecko

[NeMeSiS 11]

That's waht I like too. But your squad can run out of ammo quickly during such a firefight because it is very hard to control the AI rate of fire in ArmA - even more than in Ofp. Damn AI ignores hold fire commands once the firing has started

BIS really should work on the command interface and give us some more options there like rate/method of fire, fire sectors and so on.

Hold fire only let them holds fire until the enemy is dangerously close or when they are under fire, when you order it during a firefight it they are most likely under fire

Firesectors can be done with the watch command (hold alt, click direction), its not perfect but it works.

I also use the lowered accuracy trough the armaprofile and i havent noticed the AI running out of ammo yet, but the rate of fire can be lowered trough the config of the weapons, cant remember the exact names of the values though.

(IIRC the AI now always flees when they dont have a weapon or ammo, so it shouldnt be a very big problem when they run out of ammo for AI squads)

[boecko 0]

Hold fire only let them holds fire until the enemy is dangerously close or when they are under fire, when you order it during a firefight it they are most likely under fire

not really .. look at Bug 2218 ...

The AI begins to ignore the "HOLD FIRE", if the following condition is fullfilled:

e1 = enemy (my teammate knowsabout this unit);

m1 = my teammate;

if ( e1 knowsAbout m1 > 0.7.. ) {

  m1 ignores HOLD FIRE

}

regards

Boecko