Operation Flashpoint 2 officially announced

[max power 21]

Further to the argument that it shouldn't matter from a graphics standpoint, ofp was very ugly in its hay-day. However, lack lustre graphics will certainly turn some people off... fortunately, as a rule, I haven't seen that from BIS's press shots. The game looks very impressive. Some parts, of course, need polish.. like some of the soldier's faces look very dead and some of the transitions from grass field to full forest are a little abrupt. The renderer, though, oh man, it looks spectacular.

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Quote[/b] ]ArmA will have to compete much more than OFP did (same goes for OFP2). Your mainstream fps-standarts have risen alot

What basis for comparison are you using?

Standarts of OFP era. Look what OFP was and compare it to ArmA. Then take early MOH and compare it to later two MOHs. This is raw sample and should not be taken too seriously, but OFP is far superiour to early MOH, however when comparing ArmA to later MOH i would think that everyone sees the difference... Or then there is difference in point of views (which i think there is).

Specification of my point of view:

And more specifically AI (as combatant) and overall realism, which includes weapons, combat, immersion in realism sense etc. Gameplay also in some degrees, altough gameplay has been pretty good since days of doom/quake. This things i speak now on as a gaming mechanics.

However:

In what they have not advanced is the corridors, this sadly remains as chosen standart of business, it's easier to deliver imervise story and events when player can't break them. But it's more plot related really than gaming mechanics (the thing i'm talking about), i'm quite sure that COD4 for example could have been made more dynamic and stuff but dev-team desided otherwise.

Yeah. Half-life has good plot and was classic (was better than part 2). But it doesn't set the overall level of industry, i9t just sets pole higher for great games. And besides success of Half-life (it reached status of classic) is more about classical things like plot and place of happening, and not things in gaming mechanics (altough they were advanced at that time, for realism shooter anyways). Plot is something which is thousands of years old, you can't expect great leaps in there. Sometimes someone just hits the homerun. You could also complain that plots haven't improved in movies, books, poems etc in any given decade, century etc.

Battlefield, Vietcong and such have set already pole higher from OFP days in gaming mechnics sense, and it just keeps on rising. COD4 for example didn't get great scores in press for nothing, altought it's trendish to bash it. Again gaming mechanics is set and sound, altough it happens in heavily scripted corridor. Granted i felt letdown by it's plot, that is main reason why i didn't buy it (10 € for campaign's hour is bit too much for me).

what we have left... Ghost recon is one, some say it has descended when GRAW came out. I don't know. What changed in GRAW again was more plot related. It became more about corridor and less abotu creative thinking. This again is not gaming mechanic related. GRAW delivered much greater/complete/immersive gaming mechanics.

I believe you mostly are thinking about corridor (plot related things) and i'm more about gaming mechanics. I just happen to like more about combat in games and usually when reaching for realistic combat action we are limited in certain kind of corridor... Altough usually games tends to make it too narrow.

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But then again , I secretly hope that OFP2 will be the "ALL ACTION!" FPS Tactical Shooter everyone will love with plenty of gore and all the other useless gimmicks everyone craves

and with all them Urban Combat!!/Action-gamers gone ArmA2/3 can go back to being a niche sandbox large open landscape gameplay-focused game after BIS finished to do their silly arcade Sci-Fi game.

I dont' know what you've been inhaling but it gotta be strong stuff.  

I personally think that Crysis has best sand-box currently. It's both detailed and serves quite wide landscape.

[Pulverizer 1]

Crysis is not a sandbox game. Not anything in the vein of OFP/ArmA anyway.

First of all, there is no island. The levels are different maps much like Call Of Duty or Wolf 3D. The scenery that you see afar isn't actually real landmass, only a very low-res backdrop. There's also invisible walls to keep the player on track.

Secondly, the AI is in sleep mode until the player comes close enough. Sandbox should have a world that can function without the player, not just react to his presence and actions. This is no different from Call Of Duty spawning enemies behind the next corner, except that there's a finite number of them.

So build a real island the size of Sahrani with 100 active AI and your PC would probably melt before you could utter "maximum gay" at the sub-zero framerate. Oh, and don't forget to try that on MP too.

[Journeyman 0]

"maximum gay"

 

I think Crysis was just another missed opportunity for a realism or at least semi realism FPS, spoiled so blatantly by yet another instalment of totally over the top alien creatures with outrageous abilities and ridiculous weapons. I enjoyed it immensely right up to the cave missions where it just disintegrated into 'Maximum Crap'!!  

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Crysis is not a sandbox game. Not anything in the vein of OFP/ArmA anyway.

True it's not sand box in the wideness ArmA/OFP has. Crysis is focused in combat and sneaking in it's own unique (nanosuit) set while modelling it pretty completely. ArmA presents all in bigger sense, but doesn't go to such deep details. Also we can discuss is neither of them a true 'sandbox game' (if comparing to something like GTA or Oblivion).

Crysis offers far more detailed terrain. Natrually because of this it can't hadle same kind generic xxx square kilometer landscape as in ArmA can be seen. But then again like in several other games, you find the wholeness in microlevel.

You talking about AI activating just near player is just plot related design NOT game mechanic related (see my earlier posts). Same infact happens pretty alot in OFP aswell Because scripted mission and plot is much more story-like and immersive (epic) than dynamic missions.

Limiting players move is also plot related. In Arma/OFP we had this as radio message in several mission. If player ignored then it was game over.

I dont' know which would be reasonable map size in Crysis. It's combined arms mission offered quite alto of area. I don't know how much but enough to cover usuall ArmA/OFP mission (if not long marches related, or very big mission).

EDIT: I agree with Red Kite quite complitely. I didn't mean that Crysis is great game, but it's engine sure turns me on. Hugging ground as trees and bushes are falling from smallarms fire, grenades and sh*t. All-out assaults in jungle. Defence and delay. Recon and sneak. All scifi taken out... Sadly all this spoiled and missed after good promising start.

[Baphomet 0]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

However, I must also stipulate that OFP2 will be an unmitigated failure in my eyes if it at all caters to the sort of gaming rabble that expects:

-An expanding ring ballistics system (this is one of a few symptoms to a condition I refer to as "lazy developer syndrome").

-No wounding simulation model of any kind. And I'm not referring to seeing blood spurting. I mean quite literally lacking the ability to F' someone up with small arms whilst they still retain the ability to fight back, albeit in various states of incapacitation if hit in nonlethal or areas of delayed lethality.

-An unreasonable table of weapon damage and performance values, based on accuracy, recoil simulation, etc. These are directly linked to the aforementioned wounding simulation model.

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.

These are a few target criteria that -must- be addressed.

[Pulverizer 1]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really

[Lepardi 0]

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.

This will pretty surely not be addressed in OFP2. Gameplay videos show the character movement is degraded to the usual arcade shooter style, like CoD 4.

[Grimnirsson 0]

I'd say what we know from the so called gameplay videos is only some short impressions from a rather early design state. Let's see what CM is able to deliver with their final game, I'm pretty sure they won't torpedo their total-realism approach with bad character movement or one that is too limited to act in a believable way in the otherwise (hopefully) realistic environment.

Grim

[Baphomet 0]

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.

This will pretty surely not be addressed in OFP2. Gameplay videos show the character movement is degraded to the usual arcade shooter style, like CoD 4.

I suspect what you're saying is correct, and to be honest, for them to promote the game for being realistic, it's little more than an insult.

I do -NOT- want in my tactical shooter:

-Circle strafing

-The ability to run like Usain Bolt, much less all the time.

-The ability to sustain damage to any extremity without it severely hampering my ability to perform in game tasks: I like having the ability to take someone's legs or arms out. It forces you to think before doing something stupid. As an unforgiving damage model does anyhow.

[Blackhawk 0]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really

You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.

[badlymad 0]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really

You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.

The difference between there and here is that there are no ARMA 2 fan boys with persecution complexes lurking about the Codemasters forums that feel slighted at the least bit of criticism of their game, no matter how valid it may be. The implication that BIS fans are not "gamers" is also pretty disingenuous, considering how many people said that they would buy both OFP2 and ArmA 2 if either was shown to be good.

[froggyluv 2135]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really

You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.

Man you really need to stop.

Plenty of people here said  they will buy both games myself included. The same people have also expressed concern for both games in areas they see concern. Why do you feel the need to incessantly defend every criticism or concern laid Codemasters way?

@badlymad-well said mate

[max power 21]

@badlymad-well said mate

+10

[Pulverizer 1]

The implication that BIS fans are not "gamers" is also pretty disingenuous, considering how many people said that they would buy both OFP2 and ArmA 2 if either was shown to be good.

-1... I never meant it like that

Let's all try to troll around less and talk more about how we all want OFP2 to be a great game then

[Journeyman 0]

Let's all try to troll around less and talk more about how we all want OFP2 to be a great game then

Indeed every time I visit here all I see is bashing and counter bashing! I haven't heard anything new in many weeks, is there any more progress news of this game yet?

[Call911-AGE- 0]

Ego Tech Video

[ebns72 0]

Ego Tech Video

I was originally optimistic about ofp2, casting down all the BIS fanboys who would pick the game apart before any real gameplay had been released.

However, this trailer disappoints me heavily and shows that CM is clearly not entirely interested in realism here as their priority.

We have:

-unrealistic character movement. You are gliding, there is no real sense of character mass/the fact you are a human being evident in the original flashpoint

-no freeaim. 'nuff said.

-A.I. style: It could be just for the video, but the A.I. looked stupid. It was bunched up, crouching/kneeling in the open. It lacked the down-in-the-dirt realism of the original flashpoint. Similarly, the player ran up to any enemy at point blank in blasted him. The original flashpoint consisted of me with my face in the dirt shooting at a distant silhouette and trying to survive. That's how I had hoped the second would be. This appears to be run and gun, except with two squads running and gunning each other simultaneously.

Hopefully it will still turn out to be a great game. I know, however, that it will annoy the hell out of me if I don't feel "immersed" inside the soldier I'm playing. Flashpoint did an excellent job with that in just the style of camera, the style of character movement, the style of aiming, etc. All this is absent from ofp2.

[max power 21]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill. And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks!

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I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks!

I see this basically as good trick. AI's ability to respond to limits in terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain't tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI's capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain! In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm

Then again that is old trick which idea is to expose just rifle and bit of hand while shooting at something behind corner from short distances(we had this is trench clearing exercises and i've used it in airsoft with good results). If AI is capable to do that but will not gain too great accuracy then i'm saticfied. I think MOH introduced it to shooters, it's AI was pretty challenging in that way. Even when it was designed to be killed easily.

Mission editor seemed to be nice, if that is what user gets. Ofcourse it can be too complex so that most won't even bother to try it.

Overall that saticfied me. AI showed bit of it's tricks and then again animations indeed sucked (=gliding over terrain)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks!

I see this basically as good trick. AI's ability to respond to limits in  terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain't tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI's capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain! In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm  

....nnno. I believe plaintiff1 is actually pointing out that the loon in question's rifle is actually firing bullets in a direction that fail to correlate with the direction he's actually aiming, i.e. the bullets have a life of their own, per sé.

Exhibit A:

Note where the rifle is actually pointing, against the little puff o' dust on the hilltop. Angle fail.

Addendum - and for those who will inevitably say "lulz cmcD uve g0ne 0ffz da deap nd, he woznt chuting!1zorz", it doesn't look like any of that group on the left were aiming towards said hilltop.

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-A.I. style: It could be just for the video, but the A.I. looked stupid. It was bunched up, crouching/kneeling in the open. It lacked the down-in-the-dirt realism of the original flashpoint. Similarly, the player ran up to any enemy at point blank in blasted him. The original flashpoint consisted of me with my face in the dirt shooting at a distant silhouette and trying to survive. That's how I had hoped the second would be. This appears to be run and gun, except with two squads running and gunning each other simultaneously.

I agree is clustering, could be for show (like many movies makes things) or could be flaw in game.

In ArmA you had many times go to crunch to see what you fire. That is pretty realistic if thinking about some meadow with even half long grass. If you go low you don't see anything. Best thing is to find some rotten stump or rock and use that as support from prone position, if that ain't possible then next best thing is to rise to crunch position to be able to aim and shoot.

Hard to say more as those were just brief moments from game, in bushes there was point blank instance but that is just natural. they seemed to fire more than move in firefights (one or two guys moving while rest kept firing), but that could be just for show. If they manage to do such suppression technique in game on regular basis it seems to be promising. Not just sniper contents, but more real battlefield. Where powder burns and from hour just lasi minute is killing fire, so to speak.

[Second 0]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks!

I see this basically as good trick. AI's ability to respond to limits in  terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain't tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI's capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain! In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm  

....nnno. I believe plaintiff1 is actually pointing out that the loon in question's rifle is actually firing bullets in a direction that fail to correlate with the direction he's actually aiming, i.e. the bullets have a life of their own, per sé.

Note where the rifle is actually pointing, against the little puff o' dust on the hilltop. Angle fail.

Yes yes. That is what i said. On open ground it seems to be bit odd.

However for years (probably is still used, in MOH: Airborne i saw it last) that trick has been used to make AI more challenging in close combat because animations and AI-resources are still pretty limited. Sure it has weaknesses like those unfair kills, where there is just gun visible (while something vital as head is hidden behind buildings corner) and it headshots player. I've been pretty pissed for Farcry and MOH (while series if i recall correctly) for it. So it's ain't flawless.

In Arma or OFP there is not such possibility and their AI is pretty bad in close combat as they need to have rifle actually aimed at target. Lets see how ArmA2 works in this, but i don't know many games which uses same method for AI.

[max power 21]

I'd imagine that the bullets actually come out of the centre of their foreheads anyways so knowing where the gun is pointing is an academic exercise.

Yeah, counter strike was so ahead of its time that it employed this 'AI trick' too. Having bullets projected by the camera node is far more advanced than having mere virtual weapons functioning properly.