Mando Missile ArmA

[mandoble 1]

This procedure seems to me a bit complicated for mission makers.

More than probably I will add a scripted Laser Designator enslaved to the provided weapon or a unit or vehicle in MMA 2.2 final. In that case, the gunner of the AH1W would be able to "activate laser" and "deactivate laser", as soon as he activates the laser, it will be locked to the aiming point of the provided weapon (for example, its nose gun) and that "location" will be immediately available as remote target for any unit of his side, including himself or the pilot. So, laser transmission will not be required.

[scudrunner 0]

I'm not sure about Panda's system but mine worked fine for single player. For testing, I downloaded the Mapfact Apache's because they have a built in laser designator. (Although theirs are different because you don't see a radar contact)

Similarly, it works just fine in within one person but a deal breaker arrives in multiplayer. There is some kind of client-server issue that will prevent the laser from turning on or seemingly it randomly turns off. And even when it does work in MP the Mando overlay does not properly line up with the BIS LD and therefor the impacts are inaccurate. I noticed when the gunner said he had the little "gunner" dot (the dot that shows the pilot where the gunner is looking) on target, it did not appear to be. So I suspect the laser uses the pilot for LOS and is that is why it is shooting inaccurately. (Also, usually the 1st shot is accurate but those following do not track until too close or behind the target)

Basically, FYI Mando, if you're planning on trying to implement this it'll take a script as you stated above i'd imagine. I'd love to help just shoot me a PM or find the TOW TS, I'm sure ViperMaul always has something to ask you anyway and he may be there.... lol...

[mandoble 1]

Scudrunner, you are using a chopper that already has a LD built in and (I assume), usable from gunner's seat. As I understand, Panda is trying to make it work from AH1W which doesnt have any LD and providing it one, its control goes for the pilot, not for the gunner.

And yes, LD target might have erratic positioning in MP, it has nothing to do with MMA. It is the main reason for me to incorporate a scripted one, at least for vehicles, planes, ships and choppers enslaved to the passed vehicle's weapon.

[scudrunner 0]

Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I did put a LD in the standard BIS Cobra. We (believed we)had issues with client/server not syncing correctly so I downloaded the Apache's with built in LD's to confirm it. This confirmed that it wasn't necessarily my addweapon/addmagazine init that was causing the problem per se, but that it didn't work with multiplayer: This caused these two issues for the pilot/gunner:

1) laser on/off unreliability (Turned off w/o reason, wouldn't turn on, turned on but not detected so can't transmit laser data, etc...)

2) laser/Mando overlay inaccuracy.

( I never doubted the Mando stuff, I knew it was BIS not happy with the LD in the helo)

What I determined was , yes, 1)an addon will not make it work properly so that's not the fix and 2) it will require a script to sync client/server and make it work properly.

Hopefully that's clearer, I was just trying to help you out if you're going to try to add this.

@ Panda- if you do it like I explained it'll work in single player definitely. it will not work in multi player reliably

[mandoble 1]

Ok, it is clear now

Anyway LDs are under suspect, so I'll add a scripted and hopefully more trusty one which will not rely on laser target objects.

[Panda-PL- 0]

I think the laser problem might be a part of well known bug with AIs warping around at distance. The object position updates are for some reason cut dramatically above 600-800 m. from player.

EDIT: I also just discovered laser does not appear on air targets.

I got it working with the AH-64, you should have said you used it in the first place, would save me a lot of time.

Now I am having troble arming my chopper with a missile of my choice.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">[["MAP_AH64_CC"], 1, "", [0,16], [0,16], 10, 10, "mando_missiles\units\mando_missilevehicle.sqf", false, false, false, true, [4,0,-2], "mando_missiles\units\keysets\mando_air1_keys.sqf", 5, 5, 2, 0, false, 0]execVm"mando_missiles\units\mando_assignvehicle_by_type.sqf";

Question is: which exactly part is missile parameters??? I can't find it.

Docs aren't needed in addons which have clear structure, this is obviously not the case, so docs would be wellcome because the demo missions don't contain too much info.

In this case it would seem that all units in mission use the same kind of missile with some default settings.

I would like to mannipulate the kind of missile fired. But it's not in the quoted place. Question is then: where did you put it?

Seems to me... nowhere?

EDIT: Sorry if i sound too pessimistic.

EDIT2: I was able to reproduce both bugs (missile loosing target even when it was obviously in the search arc and the bug with not being able to lock on to the transmitted target at all) in singleplayer. I think these are some ArmA bugs with laser.

On a more positive side - I have allready menaged to shoot down choppers and even one A-10 with laser guided rockets. Laser seems to fit this role just fine.

[scudrunner 0]

1. Again, I did originally use the AH1. You do NOT have to use the Apache addons if you did it like I explained. If you still have troubles PM I don't want to fill up Mando's thread with unrelated stuff. I only used the Apache addons to verify my concern with multiplayer errors. ( I wanted to test it with built in laser designators, not "init" line LD's)

It works perfectly fine in single player with either BIS Cobra's with init line LD's ....... OR...... Mapfact Apaches with built in laser designators.

2. The "bugs" I reported were for MP only. The accuracy of the laser guidance and the inability to bring up, detect, and keep the laser active were problems I determined to be because it's not working with the server correctly.

[mandoble 1]

Panda, v2.2 you have is beta and hence dont look there for many docs about usage, as the purpose is just testing it with the provided missions. Anyway, if you want to personalize your own AH64 create your own version of mando_missiles\units\keysets\mando_air1_keys.sqf.

For example mando_missiles\units\keysets\panda_Ah64_keys.sqf.

There is the code for locking on, firing and launching chaff/flares. You might have as many of these scripts as needed, and the name of them are provided as arguments for mando_assignvehicle_by_type.sqf and mando_assignvehicle_by_name.sqf

If you need even more customization, you may also provide your own version of mando_missiles\units\mando_missilevehicle.sqf for the Apache. MMA2.2 final keeps mando_missilevehicle.sqf for compatibility but also provides mando_missilevehicle2.sqf which handles the new targeting HUD and RWR.

[mandoble 1]

Now you dont need any battery or laser designator, you only need to provide an array of vehicle names or types and weapon names and the desired position of the player inside the vehicle to a single script to have the "Laser On" action available in your vehicles. You may switch it on/off and use it as your own remote target, anyother player remote targeting capable of your same side might also lock on your LD mark. So far you may mount it on ships, choppers, planes and land vehicles.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

and what weapons can be guided ? onluyour scripted ones aor every standart one too ?

[scudrunner 0]

Looks very nice--- should save me a ton of headaches assuming it's not tough to implement

I suppose we'll have to wait for the next release for this one as well?

[Panda-PL- 0]

Looking good Mando. Could you also add a hotkey top remove/bring up the overlay (map/grayish rectangle above) and leave only the laser mark circle? then it would look like the real thing.

[mandoble 1]

bdfy, that designator is for mando missiles only.

Panda, do you mean to make the map/rwr gray? I will move it to the U/R screen corner (the map alone). Anyway, you may select the desired overlay for each unit or unit type: hud only, map/rwr only or both (I'll add also "none").

scudrunner, may be I'll make a b4 before final after all the new changes.

[Panda-PL- 0]

One suggestion i have would be for missiles to keep being guided even when out of fuel, most missiles don't have engine running when they hit anyways (unless at short range).

I did allready menage to implement semi-automatic guidance.

I'm posting it so anyone who wisheds to can play with it.

There is no need for laser or lock, the scripts are altered (I made a copy and gave it a different name in every case I think).

Just wait for system to activate and press WinL to launch, the missile will follow the crosshairs, no need for target.

@Mondo : this doesn't use a laser but I have created a fake target (Logic) and setpos it in propper places to keep the script modifications down. Obviously if you liked it and wanted to implement you'd need to skip the fake target phase and make missile guide using the setpos values. I just don't have the brains to make it myself, I get lost in the script.

I think it could even be more MP-friendly as long as it would be the server that would do the calculations. It doesn't use BIS laser, which seems to cause some trouble.

This is more a demonstration of the idea, some lines from changed sqf-s could be removed or compressed.

Anyway, have fun all realism fans (actually there is no smoke IRL, but that's a detail).

EDIT: err.... Link of course:

http://www.file-upload.net/downloa....ar.html

[mandoble 1]

It seems you did exacly what the new scripted LD does

I will consider that engineless guidance.

[Panda-PL- 0]

It seems you did exacly what the new scripted LD does  

Well, it's definitely not the same.

Because the target moves ~100 m in front of missile. If you move the crosshairs the missile will turn abruptly and then take some time to settle in the middle of crosshair.

Well... it's more visible with low missile agillity actually, not 6 like in the mission I posted.

In case of LD the target is allready on th ground, kilometers away. If you move crosshairs the missile will just correct the course slightly.

Try to sway the aim and see how missile in the first case oscillates around the crosshair before it settles.

Yes, both methods base on fake target (if that's what you mean by new LD), but the flight pattern is different.

I watched your vid and there is this difference.

You definitely got the LD right in your implementation.

As for engineless guidance - I think there is a simple way to calculate speed that will also allo you to use it for realistic LGBs.

The change of velocity in unit of time dv (per one loop cycle) should be

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">dv=-sqrt(9.11*dh/2)-dt*C/m*V^2

dh - change of altitude ASL (positive means increase, so if the bomb/projectile is falling it should accelerate. in one loop time of course)

dt - time step of our loop

C - air friction coefficient (try ~5 for starters)

m - mass of projectile (kg)

V - speed in m/s

That's a physical approximation for subsonic speeds, but we want it to be only approximate, right? Supersonic would be harder.

And an additional nose-down behaviour below some velocity so that it won't just stop midair with nose up (this one's simple I guess).

And it's done.

Pretty please implement it   . We need it for sparrows and LGBs.

I seem to have found a small error in exhaust scripts - you don't need to setpos the particle sources, they are attached to the missile allready because you put _mis as object.

[mandoble 1]

Well, I did both, the laser and the "middle" pos, while it doesnt place 100m ahead of the missile, but 200m ahead of the distance from missile to launcher and following the weapon direction of the launcher, not the missile. BTW, this requires some skill to change from one target to another without losing the missile (with small horizontal adcquisition arc).

About engineless guidance, it all depends on how ArmA responds. Basically what I can do is stop setting the velocity vector of the missile while still changing its direction and upVector with manouverability being function of the current ArmA-calculated velocity. If ArmA adjust velocity vector depending on dir and up vectors, then ok, else all guidance will be thrusted. On the other hand (just for visuals), you may stop the smoke effect before the endurance time is elapsed.

The small error you found is not an error at all, ArmA keeps the particles of the particle source attached to a vehicle only if the vehicle is relatively close to the position where the particle source is. Else the particle source stops generating particles. So you need to keep the particle source relatively close to the object all the time.

[mandoble 1]

Thrustless guidance was a success . For the test I used a Harrier for missile body thrusted for only 4 seconds and the interception happens close to the stall speed:

And for the lovers of naval battles:

[Panda-PL- 0]

BTW, this requires some skill to change from one target to another without losing the missile (with small horizontal adcquisition arc).

Well yes, but since the guidance is done by the chopper's IR camera tracking two IR beacons on the back of the missile I think setting search arc for missile is useless, because missile has no seeker at all... If anything it would be more logical to check if the missile is in search arc of player (based on player pos and the direction of weapon).

Anyway since your scripts are customisable I'll stop working on mine and just wait.

BTW: you did make a fix for difference in position between gunner sight and center of model?

Should be around this for Cobra

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">_pos= _launcher modeltoworld [0,6,1];

Without it the missile flies a bit to the side and up.

EDIT: looks cool. ArmA engine seems to be more versitale than I thougth!

And OMG the parachute is sooo cool.

I also see the splashing wather is gone now.

You just made my day Mandoble.

[mandoble 1]

Here is the

fired and guided by the gunner of an AH1W. As you can see, it is able to shot down aerial targets too (with a bit of luck ).

Actually it is limited to one shot per launcher at a time, which, on the other hand, should be correct.

[Panda-PL- 0]

Actually it is limited to one shot per launcher at a time, which, on the other hand, should be correct.

Yes theis is perfectly realistic.

Actually you could by default disable any overlay when firing in this mode, to the best of mu knowledge there is none IRL.

On the other hand I haven't read of any case of a vehicle armed with TOWS and another guided missile, so anyone will just be free to disable hud for their cobra/TOW stryker.

Here's how it works for me, with target ~120 m ahead of missile. I'm pretty sure yours would look exactly the same with this leading distance, just showing how I think it should look. You can notice some spinning/wobbing when missile is in the center of crosshairs and some overshoot (missile crosses the crosshairs and takes moment to stabilise at its center) when you rapidly change targets.

Edit: link removed, seems the file was not converted properly.

It is a lot of fun to shoot and it's really exciting when you look at the wobbing flame of the missile and try to make it hit the exact mark (which is hard, just like IRL, after launching a doizen of these babies you no longer wonder why hellfire system was created).

I have discovered that it is actually easier to hit with lower manouverabillity for missile. The flight is kind of smoother so it's easier to lead it.

Anyway: I think with these the Mando Missile is pretty much finished. I could just suggest using the laser designator system together with mando gun scripts to make a chopper with player as gunner capable of automatically set range and windage/elevation to accurately fire at ranges and from moving aircraft. Something like auto-range feature Apache has.

Just a suggestion for future, since you allready have needed scripts (mandogun and laser designator from mando missile).

[mandoble 1]

For some reason I cannot play that avi file

[Panda-PL- 0]

For some reason I cannot play that avi file  

I have weird codecs, so this is possible .

I converted it using VLC player.

Here's the original gamecam output file, if this is wrong then I need to think of reinstalling codecs...

http://www.file-upload.net/download-445448/arma_1.avi.html

[mandoble 1]

Now I can see it, nice video

I'm using 300 m/s, which speed are you using?

About the HUD's info, it gives you both: range to guidance "virtual" target and number of missiles left (well, in this case also number of flares left).

[Panda-PL- 0]

I'm using 300 m/s, which speed are you using?

280, seems to be the old TOW version avarage speed.

There is some modernised version that flies at 350 but it has a reworked guidance system and I have no info if it's been actually adopted into service.

On the video it seems much slower because of the range (2000m shots).

BTW: if you could fix something. The missiles' manouverability seems to be dependent not only on manouverability but also on speed, so if I set low acceleration the tow is capable of really sharp turn at the beggining and then it seems much less agile. I would recommend amking the actual maximal change of vector speed-dependent (multiplying it by 300 and dividing by current speed) and thus making the turn radius the same for any speed.

On the vid: very nice tow, but ground vehicles in arma have laughtable magnifications which makes TOWs on them useless at ranges at which they would normally be used.

BTW: you also can see the TOW has smokeless fuel, which is kind of obvious for visually aimed missile (and which I forgot to change in my vid, should be the flame only).

here around 0:49  you can see how a TOW looks from behind. The flames are guided outwards not to dammage the wires and not to obscure the IR beacons' view.

Here you can clearly see the missile wobbing as it flies. It is not present on your video because the fake target is a bit too far, so missile is less sensitive than IRL.

I kept trying to find TOW guncam on Youtube but all I get is Cobra-fired hellfires. There were some video comnpilations that had actual TOWs fired so I remember how it looked but they were not specifically named or described, can't find them now.

About the HUD - there's nothing wrong with it at all, just that it obscures your view when you fire and I don't see map or the overlay darker rectangle when brovsing trougth YouTube.

They aren't really usefull when guiding TOW. But since I can disable them for the gunner it's all allright.

The circle around crosshair is characteristic for Hellfire equpped Cobras - it indicates the laser is on. I don't think it appears when firing a TOW.

BTW: could you make it so the map and the darkish overlay rectangle only appears for pilot and not for gunner, the later usually has some aiming device and no need for map.

But I mean the case when both pilot and gunner are players in MP - and pilot needs map and hud but gunner not - is it possible to set these separately or is it the same for everyone in the vehicle?