Sniping

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]Actually... yes you did. That's why I quoted you directly. Here it is again in case you forgot already...

I didn't refer to that part, I referred to the first and I said I made a spelling error there too, in case you forgot!

whisper, if you don't understand what we're talking about, shut up.

Quote[/b] ]Hmmm.... not my quote... don't know where this came from. However, the ability to surmise windspeed and direction in-game does make for interesting discussion. How WOULD they execute if it existed?

Execute it? When you choose the rainy weather you get wind too right? And there is a windage dail to correctly wind speed... ?? is that what you mend or are we talking about two different things?

And no it wasn't your quote, it belonged to Frederf who talks crap!

Quote[/b] ]I figured you would back out of this. Anyway, the mil-dot system is more challening and thereby more rewarding when used successfully and thereby more fun for those who know how to use it.

NO NO, I'm not backing out of it. Would you rather use old methods in the field than tech gadgets specially MADE for sniping?

Quote[/b] ]Again, you show your lack of knowledge of real-world ballistics. The bullet drop over the 350m travelled between 300m and 650m is less than the bullet drop over the 350m travelled between 500m and 850m. So the 350m difference in both cases is NOT the same. Also, the shot group variance increases with distance, so results become less reliable the further distance the projectile travels.

MOA remains the same... you would calculate and overcome those problems easily.

You mean pure bullet drop or climate issues too? The climate is very important. Do you actually know what kind of impact the climate has on sniping? We're talking 3 new types of problems...

Btw, angle of firing is also important, no one mentioned it yet.

Quote[/b] ]I have my OWN GAME?!?! SUHWEET! I'll bet you play it all the time!

Very funny.

Quote[/b] ]Exactly HOW do you fix "MOA accuracy" with the windage dial? What exactly IS "MOA accuracy?"

Whether it is accurate as the MOA stat tell you, 1 MOA... you do know what MOA is right? Since you pretend to be so smart and all.

Frederf, you just don't know anything about sniping... stop pretending and making yourself look dumb.

Quote[/b] ]If you want more precise (unrealistic) weapons, this is in the modding topic or use the M107.

Not the place here.

No no, what I mend was regarding the MOA accuracy you were interested in trying it out on that map you made, remember.

Point being that the windage dail is 0.5MOA instead of 1MOA (for elevation) so its perfect for adjusting bullet impact “with†the scope if the rifle fires off a little to the left or right.

Let's be honest, I doubt they will ever code in a screw driver so we can modify our own scope as you would do in real life!

Quote[/b] ]I´m not a fanatic of the ´F´key, hard to switch to grenade trowing if you have 5 or 10 different elevation.

Exactly, thank you, at least one dude understands. It indeed would not be comfortable. That is why you should use a key not in use /*-+,./;'[]\-=<>?:â€{}|_+

But all aside, animal22, don't you have the correct mil dot stats by now (you said you'd try and show us) since your so wise and all.... :P YAh right.. ROFL

[frederf 0]

I can't believe I'm responding to a troll, but I figure it should at least benefit the rest of you.

Quote[/b] ]I can see why they didn't introduce wind.. there's no way to tell the direction and strength in the game unless someone told it to you (or you had a weather station thingie).--Frederf

Quote[/b] ]OMG, another one who knows nothing about sniping...

Where did you get your information from, discovery channel? Go take a class.--Amrax the troll

Quote[/b] ]Hmmm.... not my quote... don't know where this came from. However, the ability to surmise windspeed and direction in-game does make for interesting discussion. How WOULD they execute if it existed? --Animal-22

Quote[/b] ]Execute it? When you choose the rainy weather you get wind too right? And there is a windage dail to correctly wind speed... ?? is that what you mend or are we talking about two different things?

And no it wasn't your quote, it belonged to Frederf who talks crap!--Amrax the Troll

Let me explain. If BIS wanted to introduce wind into the magical world of ArmA for the purposes of making a sniper's life more interesting then it would only be fair for the sniper to be able to discover or surmise the presence of wind and get its details.

I was mere stating that there could be a couple reasons for that:

1. They don't have windage dials built into the scopes

2. It would be near impossible to guage the wind as a sniper in game

In real life a sniper would look at the mirage through his scope, a range flag's angle from a pole, stick his finger in the air, etc to determine the wind speed and direction. Obviously this is something you can't observe in game currently. BIS would have to add some sort of indicator in game for the sniper to know the wind direction and strength before implementing its effects.

"Execute it" was in reference to how would you "execute the process of knowing the wind details."

------------

New topic

First off I take issue with the phrase "MOA accuracy." It doesn't mean anything. I think he means the precision of the rifle. The precision of a rifle is measured as the angular size that encompasses all of the bullet paths fired out of the rifle. Put the M24 in a vice and have it shoot down range, not all of the bullets are going to hit the exact same spot. Very good rifles are advertised as being "sub 1 MOA" or that they shoot within a cone of one minute of arc. One minute of arc is 1/60th of a degree. One mil is 3.375 MOA. Alternately, one MOA is about 1/3 of a mil.

Precision and accuracy are not the same thing, they are different words with different definitions. A rifle that hits the same place every time is precise, a rifle that hits what you're aiming at is accurate. Accuracy in ArmA is pretty much perfect by definition, the sight is coded to have a perfect mathematical relationship with the barrel so taking out your screw drivers and calibrating your scope zero to actually be zero is not necessary, although it would make the sniper experience complete.

Quote[/b] ]Exactly, thank you, at least one dude understands. It indeed would not be comfortable. That is why you should use a key not in use /*-+,./;'[]\-=<>?:â€{}|_+ --Amrax the Troll

This is where Amrax's lack of understanding of the game shows. We are considering the use of the "F" key to change fire modes that have different elevations because the "F" key calls the command <Cycle Firemode>, not because we are in love with that particular key on the keyboard! The limit to what we can do in the game is not the number of keys on the keyboard!! The limit is what commands we have available to us! If we had a <Increase Elevation> command already that we could bind to any key we want to it, then this thread wouldn't need to exist!

Keys are bound to > Commands which do > Actions. Learn it, live it, love it.

Of course attempting to combine windage and elevation to the different fire modes would be insanity! 5 clicks left and right plus ten ranges would give 110 fire modes! Obviously, the fire mode solution would only work for one dial at a time. I don't see why you think the firemode key is such a horrible workaround to the lack of feature, it's far more graceful than ripping the rifle out of the players hand and replacing it with a differently set one using addAction and a CPU heavy script.

[churnedfortaste 0]

Maybe we should have a poll on whether we should have adjustable wind and elevation for sniping... in fact...

[Doc_69 0]

We are considering the use of the "F" key to change fire modes that have different elevations because the "F" key calls the command <Cycle Firemode>, not because we are in love with that particular key on the keyboard!

I agree with Frederf. I personally have no desire to try to adjust a scope in game using windage or elevation.Since this is a game I see no need to worry about that level of simulation accuracy. I know of no sniper who is going to stop in the middle of combat and whip out his trusty screwdriver and re zero his scope. That was the entire point behind the development of the mil-dot scopes and the other equivalent types to allow a shooter/sniper to;

a. better judge the distance

b. Guide him in how much to hold over or under based on distance.

I just would like to be able to reliably get some 1st and second shot kills at extreme range in game. By extreme range I mean 700-1500m. MY personal plan is to set up the scope using fire mode to switch between 2 or 3 different range/zero when using a sniper rifle. Personally when playing as a sniper I don't carry grenades because if the enemy gets that close I am doing something wrong. Therefore it doesn't bother me to use the F key to switch around.

That however is my personal preference and solution. Everyone is welcome to search and implement thier own solution as well.

[frederf 0]

We are considering the use of the "F" key to change fire modes that have different elevations because the "F" key calls the command <Cycle Firemode>, not because we are in love with that particular key on the keyboard!

I agree with Frederf. I personally have no desire to try to adjust a scope in game using windage or elevation.Since this is a game I see no need to worry about that level of simulation accuracy. I know of no sniper who is going to stop in the middle of combat and whip out his trusty screwdriver and re zero his scope. That was the entire point behind the development of the mil-dot scopes and the other equivalent types to allow a shooter/sniper to;

a. better judge the distance

b. Guide him in how much to hold over or under based on distance.

I just would like to be able to reliably get some 1st and second shot kills at extreme range in game. By extreme range I mean 700-1500m. MY personal plan is to set up the scope using fire mode to switch between 2 or 3 different range/zero when using a sniper rifle. Personally when playing as a sniper I don't carry grenades because if the enemy gets that close I am doing something wrong. Therefore it doesn't bother me to use the F key to switch around.

That however is my personal preference and solution. Everyone is welcome to search and implement thier own solution as well.

I see you agree with me and then say something I never said. This leads me to believing you are agreeing with some other Frederf that I've never met.

Screw drivers are only used to calibrate an optic back at base. Screw drivers are not required to adjust the elevation of the M3A1 scope, there is a knob for elevation (1 click per MOA, labeled in 100m increments) so all you have to do is range the target (ex. 600m), turn the elevation knob until you reach "6" and shoot with the crosshairs on the target.

The mildots are used for holdover (or holdunder) which is only used when time does not permit the readjust of the elevation knob. A target popping up suddenly at half the range is an example of when you would fire other than at the crosshairs.

Any time you have the 20 seconds to readjust the elevation thumbscrew to the new target range, you do so in the field.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Don't forget ArmA is more tactical game

[churnedfortaste 0]

Don't forget ArmA is more tactical game

It's fought over huge distances which would be perfect for realistic sniping...

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think he means the precision of the rifle/accuracy

Don't change the definition of MY words please.

Quote[/b] ]the sight is coded to have a ......., --> although it would make the sniper experience complete.

Exactly.

Quote[/b] ]If we had a <Increase Elevation> command already that we could bind to any key we want to it, then this thread wouldn't need to exist!

Dude, you damn well know you can code that in if you want...

Quote[/b] ]whip out his trusty screwdriver and re zero his scope

Not in the field... before that when you are ranging his scope of rifle, you know what I mean.

Quote[/b] ]By extreme range I mean 700-1500m

Exactly, don't we all want the game to be REALISTIC a 100%, obviously this whole sniping thing sucks and is incorrect on all levels.

Unless a 1:3.5 hit ratio is realistic for you.

Anyway good luck with that 1500m...

Quote[/b] ]^^I was mere stating that there could be a couple reasons for that:

No, they are just too lazy to put in those extra “features†if you will.

Tell me though, DO YOU WANT WIND AND REALISTIC FEATURES? I do!

Quote[/b] ]Put the M24 in a vice and have it shoot down range, not all of the bullets are going to hit the exact same spot. Very good rifles are advertised as being "sub 1 MOA" or that they shoot within a cone of one minute of arc. One minute of arc is 1/60th of a degree. One mil is 3.375 MOA. Alternately, one MOA is about 1/3 of a mil.

Its simpler than that. 1 MOA simply means that at 100m lets say the rifle hits 5 bullets within 1 squared inch, that s all. It is 1 MOA for each 100m.

That is for the M24 however, the SVD hits 5 bullets within less than 5 squared cm at 600M, now that is “preciseâ€.

Frederf, all crap aside. Suppose the rifle ISN'T accurate and this a little to the left or right, how would you adjust it?

For that I would use the windage dail to solve it. Don't you agree?

Quote[/b] ]Don't forget ArmA is more tactical game

And sniping is what?

Quote[/b] ]It's fought over huge distances which would be perfect for realistic sniping...

Thank you.

[churnedfortaste 0]

I think we need a petition for adjustable sights on all weapons...

[NoRailgunner 0]

@amrax

erm... do you really think with "gaming hardware" such sniping simulation can be 100% like military customers have?

@churnedfortaste

Think again - maybe there will be first patches and some fine tools asap!! Adjustable sights for all weapons have more in common with shooters

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]erm... do you really think with "gaming hardware" such sniping simulation can be 100% like military customers have?

Is this a joke? Even Delta Force 2 has an elevation... DUH it is possible and simple but lame lazy coders don't care.

[whisper 0]

whisper, if you don't understand what we're talking about, shut up.

Thank you, mister troll. You have such nice ways with people, it's unbelievable.

You might well be right. I don't care. You just speak to others like they were your dog. As long as you do so, remain what you are : a troll.

Have a nice trolling, sir.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Delta Force ...

You kiddin!

Go and play action-shooters or maybe cs! You dont understand "tactic" and "simulation" far enough.

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]Delta Force ...

You kiddin!

Go and play action-shooters or maybe cs! You dont understand "tactic" and "simulation" far enough.

WTF? You mend that it would be too difficult to input those features right?

Well Delta Force has an elevation so it IS possible to input a simple feature.

I don't understand tactic? Dude,your talking to a vet. But I bet you don;t know much about it AT ALL, you just BS.

Whisper, go play with your dolls!

[Doc_69 0]

We are considering the use of the "F" key to change fire modes that have different elevations because the "F" key calls the command <Cycle Firemode>, not because we are in love with that particular key on the keyboard!

I agree with Frederf. I personally have no desire to try to adjust a scope in game using windage or elevation.Since this is a game I see no need to worry about that level of simulation accuracy. I know of no sniper who is going to stop in the middle of combat and whip out his trusty screwdriver and re zero his scope. That was the entire point behind the development of the mil-dot scopes and the other equivalent types to allow a shooter/sniper to;

a. better judge the distance

b. Guide him in how much to hold over or under based on distance.

I just would like to be able to reliably get some 1st and second shot kills at extreme range in game. By extreme range I mean 700-1500m. MY personal plan is to set up the scope using fire mode to switch between 2 or 3 different range/zero when using a sniper rifle. Personally when playing as a sniper I don't carry grenades because if the enemy gets that close I am doing something wrong. Therefore it doesn't bother me to use the F key to switch around.

That however is my personal preference and solution. Everyone is welcome to search and implement thier own solution as well.

I see you agree with me and then say something I never said. This leads me to believing you are agreeing with some other Frederf that I've never met.

Screw drivers are only used to calibrate an optic back at base. Screw drivers are not required to adjust the elevation of the M3A1 scope, there is a knob for elevation (1 click per MOA, labeled in 100m increments) so all you have to do is range the target (ex. 600m), turn the elevation knob until you reach "6" and shoot with the crosshairs on the target.

The mildots are used for holdover (or holdunder) which is only used when time does not permit the readjust of the elevation knob. A target popping up suddenly at half the range is an example of when you would fire other than at the crosshairs.

Any time you have the 20 seconds to readjust the elevation thumbscrew to the new target range, you do so in the field.

Frederf,

I apologize that you think I misquoted you but in the thread I see on sniping the words I quoted are in your post directly above me. That is the portion I was refering to when I said I agree with you. Nothing else! The rest was intended to represent my opinion. Personally it has been almost 20yrs since I was in service and back then we used the Unertl scopes so consequently I am not familiar with the M3A1. In my time in the service we would not consider stopping in COMBAT (i.e people shooting at us) to adjust anything on the scope with or with out screwdrivers. Personally nowadays when shooting long range while hunting I use a H37 or H50 scope depending on how long long range is. That is what I intend on modelling for my personal use in game.

Sorry if you misunderstood my words.

Doc_69

[whisper 0]

Quote[/b] ]Delta Force ...

You kiddin!

Go and play action-shooters or maybe cs! You dont understand "tactic" and "simulation" far enough.

WTF? You mend that it would be too difficult to input those features right?

Well Delta Force has an elevation so it IS possible to input a simple feature.

I don't understand tactic? Dude,your talking to a vet. But I bet you don;t know much about it AT ALL, you just BS.

Whisper, go play with your dolls!

And learn to talk to people, tyvm.

You want something done?

=> http://bugs.armed-assault.net/main_page.php , feature request.

Stop playing the allmighty and actually HELP people, instead of insulting them.

[BroK3n 0]

mm yeah kinda getting noisy here.

@ amrax

Did you read the thread that had something about vets being almighty on servers? I dont know but i've always thought that vets had some kind of public courtesy nurtured in them from all their experience in the field.

Your intentions are correct but tone down on the attitude man. Like Whisper said... the bugtracker helps alot. It's gonna be interesting to see sight elevation tweaks coded into the game, imho.

[amrax 0]

Quote[/b] ]Stop playing the allmighty and actually HELP people, instead of insulting them.

I am helping. It is you who miss the point.

Quote[/b] ]Did you read the thread that had something about vets being almighty on servers? I dont know but i've always thought that vets had some kind of public courtesy nurtured in them from all their experience in the field.

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Please don't forget windage dail.

I'll see what I can do with the bug report thing.

[whisper 0]

Quote[/b] ]Stop playing the allmighty and actually HELP people, instead of insulting them.

I am helping. It is you who miss the point.

Quote[/b] ]Did you read the thread that had something about vets being almighty on servers? I dont know but i've always thought that vets had some kind of public courtesy nurtured in them from all their experience in the field.

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Please don't forget windage dail.

I'll see what I can do with the bug report thing.

It is supposed to mean that "being a vet" (whatever that means) doesn't give you the right to not act properly on boards and talk to people normally, to give them names, repeating they are idiots, etc, etc... This is NOT helping.

I see your points. It's rather simple, you want complete sight adjustment added in game as well as wind effect on flying bullets.

Like I said, I don't care : you state them in such a "I'm better than thou" way that there's no way me, or any other, has to endure that. You're not better than anyone.

[amrax 0]

I'm trying to tell people how to do it right and they come up with BS like online sims and incorrect formulas etc etc, that is NOT my fault. I am trying to correct them but *they* completely miss out on how the stuff works. In fact they mislead people.

Trust me, I am helping.

Quote[/b] ]Like I said, I don't care : you state them in such a "I'm better than thou" way that there's no way me, or any other, has to endure that. You're not better than anyone.

If you don't care than why are you in this topic? It seems you know shijt about sniping and are only here to cause noise.

You have brought nothing to the table worth any value!

The points are very very simple indeed but you miss out on them, that doesn't make you smart now does it? Stop talking about stuff you do not know!

[whisper 0]

it's OT, better continue over PM :P

[amrax 0]

Don't back out of it NOW, when you know you are wrong.

Try sniping first before you talk about it, OK, twit!

[whisper 0]

LOL

trying to explain something to amrax is like banging your head against a wall.

You repeat things endlessly, and he doesn't get it

[amrax 0]

My points are clear, you're just babbling about your own Insufficiencies.

[BroK3n 0]

Take it out over PM.