Taking Cover

[PlayeR87 0]

Would it not be cool if ya could put ur back to a wall and take cover like in ghost recon and rainbow 6?

i think it would really add to the firefights

[dmitri 0]

Would it not be cool if ya could put ur back to a wall and take cover like in ghost recon and rainbow 6?

i think it would really add to the firefights

Features like this are ruining the long running tactical shooter franchises. Apologies for my jaded oldschool opinion.

[PlayeR87 0]

you think so?

how would it ruin the combat, i thought it would be more realistic

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

you think so?

how would it ruin the combat, i thought it would be more realistic

This is ArmA ... and not Ghost Recon. Don't get me wrong but this game is the most special thing you will find around.

BF2 may be fun for some time, but is no solution at all for real oldschool OFP gamers. All of those people were in deep love with OFP, at a stage never reached with women.

These men would rather die than having their precious OFP (now ArmA) be like any other (in my opinion) cheap game. I proudly confess that OFP has affected my life more than all the girls I had (not too much anyway lol).

NOW I might go a bit too far but I still say proudly that OFP for me was more a philosophy of life but a "game".

Welcome to the OFP/ArmA community

[PlayeR87 0]

i think i get what ur point but surely in real life soldiers would use cars and walls as cover, i cant see how this would make things worse

[maxqubit 1]

Playe ... don't bother. A large portion of forum visitors are hostile to anything that (however remotely) relates to consoles. Vegas with its fantastic 'cover' system, is so unfortunate to run on 360 and therefor it is simply 'not done' to even talk about some good things some other devs have created. Most guys here even think only BIS can create a good game.

You want proof? Just utter the word ArmA/360 ... there is your proof:)

[NeMeSiS 11]

Im sorry but i dont see the point, we can lean right?

[maxqubit 1]

Im sorry but i dont see the point, we can lean right? ???

not OVER a wall, and the leaning just can't touch the fluidity of the Vegas system (fluidity as in 'like the real thing')

[NeMeSiS 11]

Im sorry but i dont see the point, we can lean right?

not OVER a wall, and the leaning just can't touch the flyidity of the Vegas system

Well i havent played vegas so ive no idea what you mean (I enjoyed GR1 and the PC version of GRAW though).

If an object is low enough to shoot over you can switch between crouch/standing for cover and if its too high to shoot over while standing then you wouldnt be able to shoot over it anyway?

[PlayeR87 0]

look up a video of rainbow vegas and u will see the cover system that they use, i think it would bring a whole new approach to urban combat and supressing the enemy

also it would allow blind shooting which is handy for fast supression

[maxqubit 1]

Im sorry but i dont see the point, we can lean right? ???

not OVER a wall, and the leaning just can't touch the flyidity of the Vegas system

Well i havent played vegas so ive no idea what you mean (I enjoyed GR1 and the PC version of GRAW though).

If an object is low enough to shoot over you can switch between crouch/standing for cover and if its too high to shoot over while standing then you wouldnt be able to shoot over it anyway? ???

All correct but it is not fluid like the Vegas system. You have to play it to believe it. For me it was 'instant love'. What a fantastic yet simple and elegant system.

The only problem for the real die hards is that in vegas you go in 3rd when in 'cover' mode. But it feels natural.

The only excuse for not integrating this 'cover' system is (for me) the availability of TrackIR and its integration in ArmA, by which leaning becomes more natural. But TrackIR is expensive stuff:(

[maxqubit 1]

Small cover system video (YouTube)

Another video (much longer which shows the use of cover pretty well)

(edit: even when i just watch the vids, i think ... how brilliant ... they somehow just got it absolutely 100% right:)

[churnedfortaste 0]

SOBR[1st-I-R] @ Mar. 09 2007,23:35)]

you think so?

how would it ruin the combat, i thought it would be more realistic

This is ArmA ... and not Ghost Recon. Don't get me wrong but this game is the most special thing you will find around.

BF2 may be fun for some time, but is no solution at all for real oldschool OFP gamers. All of those people were in deep love with OFP, at a stage never reached with women.

These men would rather die than having their precious OFP (now ArmA) be like any other (in my opinion) cheap game. I proudly confess that OFP has affected my life more than all the girls I had (not too much anyway lol).

NOW I might go a bit too far but I still say proudly that OFP for me was more a philosophy of life but a "game".

Welcome to the OFP/ArmA community

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well personally i find the constant switching to 3rd person quite ridiculous and i dont see the (gameplay-)difference between this and normal leaning.

But just from looking at the video i can tell you that this wont be in, if you like it or not.

(1. You would need to detect the exact position of certain walls and 2. you would suddenly need to change to a whole different bunch of animations and 3. ArmA is slower paced and because of the slower animations this would get annoying quickly, even if you liked it in the first place)

[smellyjelly 0]

It wouldn't work well because, I think, in harder difficulties and some multiplayer servers Armed Assault is locked in to first person.

Besides, that's not anything you couldn't do manually, except you may have to turn the sensitivity up.

[JdB 151]

100% right indeed. Any real SF operator would use Hollywood style movement for sure, and of course anyone praises their teammates for stepping into their line of fire, thereby placing the entire team at risk.

It is nice for a quiet afternoon when you feel the urge to play an arcade shooter like the latest RS-games. Non-suprisingly ex-RS developers are creating their own game that will bring realism as opposed to the Hollywood fest that the Rainbow Six series has become. This is a "corridor" shooter, not the wargame with the huge viewdistances and broad fields of fire. That is why alot of people laugh when others suggest changes that they saw in a "tactical" game like this, not because all change is bad.

[killaalf 0]

In my opinion, all this hugging walls and shooting over cover as seen in R6: Vegas (a rape of the franchise, I might add) takes control away from the player - you're no longer there in person, you just control some muppet. Suspension of disbelief goes POOF! in a big way. If it was implented as in Vietcong then we're talking, that felt very natural to me.

[JdB 151]

If it was implented as in Vietcong then we're talking, that felt very natural to me.

True, the way you could lean over/support your weapon on i.e. a log was very usefull and realistic in Vietcong, while still being in full control.

[Overdosed 0]

I LOVE the vegas cover system, and i would LOVE to see it in ArmA. If you didnt try it you cant talk abaut it. I also thought at first "this must suck ass" but then when i first used it i fell in love. Its "100% right" like someone else said. I LOVE it.

[Kirby 2]

I think a sort of cross between the Vegas and GRAW cover system would work in ArmA, but keeping it in first person (Ie. you can only see if you poke your head out a bit) if thats the way you want it, insted of auto switching to 3rd.

[wamingo 1]

I imagine a decent way would be if you're already in crouched mode and then Hold Crouch button (X default in arma) for mouse fluid up and down movement and have an animation that will match it. Gun would then be put on top of the cover when there's room for it. That way the game doesn't need to know the height of the cover beforehand or calculate it or find it real time. Only need to find room for the gun, though I think that's already in the game.

The back flip over thing is hollywood only me thinks. No way you can do that many times with infantry gear.

[maxqubit 1]

If you close your eyes, you still know where you are (e.g. against a wall) ... How would you implement THAT into a game

This wall hugging simulates the feedback of touch ... this feedback simply is not present in any other fpv schema. Thus, if you rely on strict fpview you are missing something, the touch feedback.

That is why (for me) the Vegas system feels natural (the GRAW system is very clumsy compared to Vegas). Hard-core fans may think otherwise, imo they are wrong.

(but i agree that it won't be in ArmA, ArmA is just not up to that)

[dmitri 0]

My problem with cover systems is their artificiality. You hit a button, and your player model presses up against the nearest surface. Reduces immersion, it's unnecessary automation.

Unless of course your idea of immersion is Hollywood. My sense of immersion comes from feeling I'm in control - not playing a game with preset special moves, magnet surfaces and annoying Tomb Raider camera moves.

It's a Splinter Cell feature added to R6 to attract audiences who enjoy staring at their player model, more than they do at a reticule. I bet in a MP game, by the time you've watched that half-second camera transition between first person and third person, the guy not using the cover system has killed you.

It automates a players movement and reduces tactical play. Do I go behind the crate and crouch? Do I lean around the corner and fire. Nah, I just walk upto a surface, hit a button and bam, I'm "in cover mode".

Similiar to GWAR's hud that conveniently displays enemy positions. The developers video rambling on about how "futuristic" the HUD is disguises their real intent. Simplifying the gameplay to appeal to a wider audience. Who wants to be observant and spot the gun barrel visible over a ledge 100 meters away? Nobody - give the players a target box.

..Perhaps if the cover system remained in first person, the position of the firearm changing based on your orietation to a surface - subtly - without any slick camera moves or the feeling that "now I'm in that special mode". An improved version of R6 Ravenshield's "fluid motion" (..which btw, I've hardly ever used during play).

[PlayeR87 0]

Taking cover against the wall need not switch u to third person view at all, keep first person mode, but imo having ur back to the wall makes urban combat easier and better

[4 IN 1 0]

Taking cover against the wall need not switch u to third person view at all, keep first person mode, but imo having ur back to the wall makes urban combat easier and better

in early war over iraq an Australian SASR operative get KIA because bullet hit a wall and ricochet into his head, hum....... not so good for this single reason