Clans & Ranking

[Desrat 0]

As a new ArmA clan (www.vowsclan.net) who are carrying over from Swat4 I would like some input from the community.

Right now we are goin through a major clan discussion on weather we should implement a ranking structure within our clan, and wonder how many other teams/clans use a ranking system.

So to recap... Does you clan use ranks? & what is your opinion on the matter.

EDIT:

oh the 2nd option No was meant to be that No you dont use ranks but dont have any particlar opinion on the matter

[binkster 0]

Depends on what you mean on ranking system. Do you mean a ranking system for ingame missions, for example everyone follows one guys orders. Or do you mean a ranking system for out of the game like clan decision's, new members, ect.... Ive seen alot of clans fall apart because of ranking cause people want more power..........

[Desrat 0]

Depends on what you mean on ranking system. Do you mean a ranking system for ingame missions, for example everyone follows one guys orders. Or do you mean a ranking system for out of the game like clan decision's, new members, ect.... Ive seen alot of clans fall apart because of ranking cause people want more power..........

we've always had the follow one leader mantra once in game but we are considering a clan wide ranking system with recruits starting at entry level (private) and work up the system.

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that the sheer scale of everything is so much bigger than your clan is used to. Many clans find it useful to set up at least a cursory set of ranks just because it helps to stay organized. A great discussion of a more formal organization can be found on dslyecxi's website:

http://dslyecxi.com/ofpttp.html

Even so, I can't give you an answer without knowing more. For example, are you planning to compete in organized events? Plan to spend most of your time doing big co-op missions? Simply want to dominate as a group when you're playing on public servers? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, I think that you'll find that at least some organization will be necessary to succeed.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Or you could use a new system entirely. Beginners start as

a .22 and move up the scale through 9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62mm

until you get to 120mm APFSDS. Then you could literally say

"we have men of good calibre in our clan"  (I kill myself

sometimes...)  

[celery 8]

My clan, the MercenaryS, uses a rank system. In our clan a rank gives away your job and/or skills and long membership. Privates are our new members in their first weeks of membership, from which they rise to corporal if they fit in. SSG and 2LT and all ranks up are equal with the difference that enlisted rather listen and execute their orders than shout them to others. Parallel sergeants and officers are otherwise equally hardcore.

More info.

In my opinion it works well if people don't get too fixated on their ranks. We recently had a rank revision from an honor and merit based system to an occupation and activity level system, and some people rather maintained their low officer ranks than received the honor of being a mega sergeant, and that's a bit silly.

Ranks are good if your clan isn't small and not everyone knows everyone well. It serves the purpose of seeing who's who in a clan and who you should listen to. In a very tight knit team it may create more difficulties and grudges than it's worth.

By the way, you should allow seeing the member list on your web page for unregistered people, it's frustrating to find out who's in the team, if you can't.

[Desrat 0]

Even so, I can't give you an answer without knowing more. For example, are you planning to compete in organized events? Plan to spend most of your time doing big co-op missions? Simply want to dominate as a group when you're playing on public servers? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, I think that you'll find that at least some organization will be necessary to succeed.

The main primary focus is on co-op gameplay as thats where we come from, however we do have a cross section of members who have backgrounds in other games such as OFP, Ghost recon(original), Rainbow Six, and Americas Army and would possibly extend into adverseral modes in due course.

[Desrat 0]

By the way, you should allow seeing the member list on your web page for unregistered people, it's frustrating to find out who's in the team, if you can't.

I have done so but will not leave it like that long as I dont want non regd visitors coming and grabbing email addresses.

Oh and please note the site was recently rebuilt following a server crash at our hosts and we did previoulsy have over 500 registered website members.

[TrunkzJr 0]

Ranks can be good and bad. You don't want to make lower members feel like trash but you want the higher members to feel important as well.

[Balschoiw 0]

First, I´d say this thread fits better to either multiplayer or squads and fanpages.

Second, I´m part of an OFP coop clan for I guess 5 years now and we never had ranks as we simply have seen no need for it at any time. People in a clan know each other and they know what abilities the others have. Some are good at leading, some at flying some are good mulitrole fighters.

A rank system simply serves no purpose for us. I guess it´s more or less just the same as guys putting their carkeys on the table to show off.

Oh I almost forgot, we had a ranky system at some point as a lot of guest players showed up who had incredible ranks like Lt.General Whatosoever. Their ranks often made their names unreadable as the whole expression was to long to actually be displayed on the setup screen. We introduced our own "important" ranks , like Devil Llauma, Santa Balschoiw, Fat Tony, etc

Just my 2 cents.

[Desrat 0]

Thanks fellas for all your input.

[Panko-31stMEU- 0]

On the flip side you have a game based off of the military where it makes good use of ranks.  Ranks are perfectly fine to use and can help let everyone know what your position is within the Unit from a first look.  The problem is you should not have a rank based on a job you are not doing.  If you barely can fill up a platoon of men (speaking about the US military), then you have no need to have your highest officer being more than a 1st Lieutenant or at most a Captain.  You don't want to promote yourself all the time and it takes members that have the ability to be humble about their position.  You can't have power hungry @$$holes in the Unit and people who can'ty handle being at the bottom for a while.  If people are new they shouldn't be given high rank quickly as it usually spits on the time the other unit members have put in to gain their current ranks and positions.  Ranks work very well and can be a good motivator to help get people to get things done.  Unfortunately the people who are in charge have to maintain the integrity of those ranks and you actually have to call people by those ranks, otherwise they are literally pointless.  NCO's should be leading squads and officers should be leading the collective groups and speaking directly and only directly to the NCO's.

Tips:

Don't be in charge or in a leadership position if you can't LEAD.  Don't kid yourself, if you can't think of good ways to go about fulfilling a mission objective, hand off the leadership to someone who can.  A good way to find out quickly if you have the right stuff is to ask someone who you have been ordering around in game.  If they think you have been doing a good job and the squad agrees with him, keep it going and try to learn everything on the face of the planet about combat.  If you are the leader and you DO know what you are doing, don't allow lower troops to control the squad unless you have told them to do so.

BIGGEST THING: You have to respect everyone within the Unit/clan or there's no point in having ranks.  Rank should not let people feel obligated to talk down to others, it's really rude and really arrogent.  Rank should deal only with time in the group and abilities/positions.

If you are able to follow these things, you will have a good rank system that all will follow.  "You can't force your men to follow you, you have to make them WANT to follow you."

[Bingo 0]

Panko made some excellent points here.

In my disastrously honst, and usually unfounded opinion, ranks inside clans for games such as COD2 are a waste of time beyond the "leader/server-admin/non-leader" variety. It just leads to confusion.

ArmA (and OFP, for that matter), offer a direct reality in cahoots with your clan's ranking system. Privates, Captains, etc...

I voted "yes", for clan-based ranking within the confines of Arma, provided that in the battlefield, those ranks are honoured.