Aiming the AH's gun

[Killerwatt 0]

Ive been playing around in the choppers a bit and was wondering is there any way to tie the nose mounted gun's movement to the pilot's/gunner's head movement as in real life? It would be awesome with TrackIR if we could do this.

Cheers,

Stewart.

[max power 21]

I'm not sure this is possible with the cobra in real life.

[blankfish 0]

Done a quick search and the cobra AH-1Z does use the the "Top Owl" Helmet Mounted Sight and Display (HMS/D) system.

would be a cool feature to use with TrackIR

:-)

[Killerwatt 0]

But it's only a matter of time before an AH 64 makes an appearance in ArmA. So it would be good to know if my Idea is possible.

Cheers,

Stewart.

[max power 21]

I think the cannons in those helicopters are slaved to the helmet mounted sight of the gunner rather than the pilot. This is not something I'm especially knowledgable on so please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pierrot 0]

Is there anybody who knows about gun control of AH-1? Is cannon slaved to a gunner's helmet mounted sight or to a monitor through which a gunner select a target?

[xnodunitx 0]

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/bellAH-1Z.cfm

Oddly enough, even though that is the main page, the page I found the information of "yes" is another website which was speaking more of F-16's, however it did mention HMS/D.

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archive....ex.html

This is most definatly the system because prior to the below information it reads-

"The year was 1982, and can you imagine the chuckles coming from my friends, Johnnie Stegemoller of GD's Pilot/Vehicle Interface Group and Dr. Tom Furness at the Armstrong Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory, as I described my invention. They had been working with the idea for fifteen years. Tom grinned mischievously as he described the history of visually coupled systems and revealed that the concept was entering flight test in the Army AH-64."

The Falcon Eye concept is unique among fighter night nav and attack systems. It provides the pilot with one-to-one registered FLIR imagery in a thirty-degree-field-of-view helmet display. The pilot head-steers the FLIR and display through virtually the same unobstructed regard as normally available for daytime contact flying. The FLIR is equipped for 5.6X NFOV operation, and the visual coupling with the HMS/D ensures that the FLIR's line of sight is the same as the pilot's.

Of course, having this for a pilot is suicidal in a game for many reasons, reason one being that the pilot would feel there is no need for a gunner, which in truth although a pilot can do everything, its easier to do seperate tasks.

Two being that it would most likely kill off some teamwork, games that have the "one man vehicle" aspect for things such as helicopters and tanks have done that quite well for us already.

Three, it would be like the Kamov and so far I'v mostly heard complaints about aiming and piloting that thing.

[Killerwatt 0]

Either way it doesn't really mater if its slaved to the gunner's or the pilot's helmet as 9 times out of ten if you are flying with an AI gunner you will probably utilise manual fire anyway. So it would be good to have it slaved to the helmet of whoever has control of the gun.

[xnodunitx 0]

And yet the AI will slave the gun to the target, usually better than a human will. However doesn't to "slave" a target to a weapon mean to lock it on and not have the weapon move away from it until released?

[Tarnish_UK 0]

I think the cannons in those helicopters are slaved to the helmet mounted sight of the gunner rather than the pilot.  This is not something I'm especially knowledgable on so please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know about the AH1 but I do know that both the pilot and the CP/G (CoPilot/Gunner) in the AH64 can take control of the gun system.

[xnodunitx 0]

AH-1Z crew can, the helmets supposedly have the same technology the IHADSS have.

[Gux 0]

TrackIR aiming would be pretty sweet.

[Maximus_G 0]

Not sure about this.

TopOwl magnetic sensor's positioning precision is 3.8mrad, which in ideal circumstances gives about 2 meter aiming error at 1km range.

TIR's precision is much worse. Without some optical scope help, which the pilot doesn't have in the game, it wouldn't be useful anywhere except really close ranges. But even if it's so, i would definitely like to try it.

[max power 21]

I agree with xnounitx. My concern from a gameplay standpoint is that this would eliminate the need for a gunner in the gunner seat... and that's pretty bad considering that all other vehicles require at least a skeleton crew compliment. Making the helicopters able to aim and fire from the pilot position would be grotesque, especially in a mp situation. Obviously you wouldn't have the same gunsight zoom and such- there would still be advantages to having a human gunner.. but I think we should keep 'races to teh choppers' in BF.

[Killerwatt 0]

Sorry But I disagree. If its possible to implement it to be more lifelike then this should be done in my opinion. The human pilot can already target his hellfires and in real life he can target the gattling gun so it would be just ludicrous to disallow this for the sake of "game play". We want more realism in our game not less. Why not take away the manual fire mode completely if you want to force player to fly with a gunner? Besides, it could always be an option that could be disabled if the server wanted to disable it.

Cheers,

Stewart

[xnodunitx 0]

Your point has some wrong points. BIS wanted some balance in gameplay and realism, it is the community that adds in the more realistic effects, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, this is a pure example of one of them. It would like adding a jump button, sure it can help you get off a roof but suddenly guess what, bunny hoppers everywhere!

In reality soldiers are trained to work together and as a team, online many people could give a damn less, to the soldiers its about survival, to the online gamers its usually about "pwning" as many as they can. And I'm sorry to say but if this was here before AA was released then it wouldn't be such an issue, but we already have a bad case of the bf2 gamers screwing things up already, the last we need to do is to help them screw up more.

Same reason a loader was not implimented into the tank crew, yes you can modify the tank to have a fourth person as a cargo element, but it would be plain dumb to have loaders be part of the crew, sure its more realistic and that would be great, but whose to say that smacktard will always load the weapon? You find yourself facing off against a T-72 with a uncooperative loader, your screwed, which is why it was kept to automatic.

All in all, this idea is better suited for something such as VBS2.

[max power 21]

Sorry But I disagree. If its possible to implement it to be more lifelike then this should be done in my opinion. The human pilot can already target his hellfires and in real life he can target the gattling gun so it would be just ludicrous to disallow this for the sake of "game play". We want more realism in our game not less. Why not take away the manual fire mode completely if you want to force player to fly with a gunner? Besides, it could always be an option that could be disabled if the server wanted to disable it.

Cheers,

Stewart

Yeah, I know. I petitioned BIS for many realism elements but they all fell on deaf ears. Features such as voluntary and involuntary bowel movements, smell-o-vision, itchy-nose-from-being-tickled-by-tall-grass, alternately ramming your shins and face into fallen logs in the woods in the dark, and heel blisters will never be modelled. So they would mess with gameplay. GAMEPLAY IS NO EXCUSE TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE REALITY OF BEING A SOLDIER AND EVEN BEING HUMAN.

I completely agree with killerwatt, and heartily endorse his post.

[Killerwatt 0]

You people have obviously never heard of the word OPTION. You are aware that the gunner can aim the gun by moving the mouse button I presume? So whats the big deal with giving him the option to do so using his TrackIR?

[xnodunitx 0]

Were not talking gunner,were talking pilot.

[Gux 0]

Your point has some wrong points. BIS wanted some balance in gameplay and realism, it is the community that adds in the more realistic effects, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, this is a pure example of one of them. It would like adding a jump button, sure it can help you get off a roof but suddenly guess what, bunny hoppers everywhere!

So, you think the "manual fire" option is ok but not having an option to be able to move the sight with trackir? That's ridiculous.

[max power 21]

Sorry, that argument is completely nonsensical. I don't even know what you're trying to say. "What, you think that the american public should have guns but not thermonuclear weapons? Ridiculous". Complete tripe.

[xnodunitx 0]

Your point has some wrong points. BIS wanted some balance in gameplay and realism, it is the community that adds in the more realistic effects, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, this is a pure example of one of them. It would like adding a jump button, sure it can help you get off a roof but suddenly guess what, bunny hoppers everywhere!

So, you think the "manual fire" option is ok but not having an option to be able to move the sight with trackir? That's ridiculous.

I never said that, I don't think manual fire is such a good idea either I wouldn't really argue if they got rid of manual fire to be honest.

[Killerwatt 0]

Forget it Gux, I assume that plaintiff and his friend haven't got Track IR and so are against anyone getting the benifits from it when they are unable to do so.

Cheers,

Stewart.

[max power 21]

That sure is an assumption, alright.

[Gux 0]

I never said that, I don't think manual fire is such a good idea either I wouldn't really argue if they got rid of manual fire to be honest.

Well sure, if Arma was a complete sim I wouldn't argue against that too. But it's not. So I just don't see how a small feature like that could do nothing but enhance the gameplay. I'd love to have it work like in Enemy Engaged which is a pretty nice heli sim.