New Damage Model System- Soldiers

[guyguy1 0]

One thing about ArmA which really concerned me was the damage models. I thought that since the game takes place in a modern time frame, the damage models would be revised to simulate body armor. Unfortunately, it has not been done so yet (And IMO I think that this should be patched in ArmA, not left to modders to revise). In ArmA, one shot from a pistol/mp5 to the torso instantly kills the player. Sometimes if you're lucky, it's 2 shots. There's something wrong with that, because when military standard body armor with rifle round-defeating plates is being worn by a physically fit and adrenaline-pumped soldier, there is no way that one or two shots from a 9 mm will bring the soldier down and keep in combat ineffective/badly wounded (or for that matter, one rifle round to plate carrying areas). Here is my idea for Game2 (and hopefully a patch for ArmA).

One game that has extroardinarily realistic damage models is Ghost Recon (original, island thunder, desert siege, jungle storm). The system worked by creating hit zones for certain parts of the soldier's body. Then, there was an automatic 10 % chance that one shot would incapacitate the player (in every hit zone). Based on the endurance level of the player, and the multipliers in the different hit zones (For example, the head had a 9x multiplier so there was a 90% chance that shrapnel/1 shot from any weapon would kill the player), the player could take 2-9 (Endurance level 1-8) hits. This is extremely realistic, and offers much greater depth into the possibilities of the game.

Because a hitpoint system such as that in OFP and ArmA is basically creating a clone army (physically), it limits the potential for the game because every man/woman in the game had the exact same HP. In battle, soldiers often die from 1-2 hits. However IRL, many a times, a soldier can take many shots and still be alive. The strokes of luck encountered by soldiers, as well as physicall differences, create variety in the ways that different people can sustain injuries and survive or die. The Damage multiplier system in conjunction with the 10% auto incapacitation and endurance stats in Ghost Recon create a sense of total realism (in some ways, more realistic than OFP/ARMA) because I know that placing two shots to each man of a 6 man squad wil not kill each man (I hope you understand what I mean).

The multipliers and 10% auto incapacitation formula compensates for the rare occurances in which soldiers survive rounds to the head, as well as for the times that soldiers survive several hits to the limbs/body/etc. In my opinion, a damage model system for Game2 which is similar to that of Ghost Recon's (which is more realistic than OFP's and ArmA's) would revolutionize Game2's possibilities, depth, and obviously, realism). I really hope that an overhaul in the damage model system for soldiers is completed, because in combat, behind the guns and artillery shells and bullets are the soldiers, and to inaccurately simulate the soldier is almost the same as to inaccurately simulate combat.

here is a link to look at which describes the G.Recon system

Incredibly Realistic

EDIT: Please, don't PM me and call me a GR worshipper. I sincerely believe that the damage models in ghost recon are far more realistic than of those in Arma and OFP. I just want Game2 to be a great game.

OFP/ArmA's scale and environment's realism are unmatched. The soldiers are also very realistically depicted. But for Game2, I think that by incorporating this type of damage system and AI i mentioned above, itwould really add another dimension to the game's playability and realism. By replacing the old damage model system with this newer, more realistic and dynamic system, and by replacing the dreaded damage texture with damage decals, Game2's realism will be upped to a whole new level.

[churnedfortaste 0]

Yeah I totally agree, I've asked on about 3 posts for there to be individual damage received for each body part, and I've also suggested the idea of attributes that you gain, endurance, accuracy, speed e.t.c.

[lemd 0]

I heard that Call of Duty 4: Modern Combat will have RPG elements.

[guyguy1 0]

Yeah I totally agree, I've asked on about 3 posts for there to be individual damage received for each body part, and I've also suggested the idea of attributes that you gain, endurance, accuracy, speed e.t.c.

In ArmA, indiv. body parts have recieve a certain amount of damage. This was also in OFP.  What I'm asking for is something that I've wanted to see in OFP for years... and for good reason too.

The idea of gaining endurance and speed is at most..controversial. I think that they shojld stay the same because at best, a soldier will get more tired as combat goes on (realize i am talking about the campaign as a whole).

Developers please read if you are taking this suggestion seriously:

Current U.S. standard body armor is Interceptor, developed in the 1990's. It is a kevlaqr vest and can hold up to 4 plates. The Marine Corps has just signed a deal to produce MTV's to replace the Interceptor. Modular Tactical Vest is basically the same thing as interceptor, utilizing 4 plates and a kevlar jacket, but has a soft armor addition to the lower back area.

The US army has released an industrywide request for a NEW body armor. The vest itself will be made of kevlar like the current armor, and will have 4 plates like the current U.S. body armor, but it will feature a new type of ballistic plate- the XSAPI. Current plate is the ESAPI, designed to defeat the level IV bullets. the XSAPI will push the ballistic protection to a new level, and is aimed at defeating level V rounds- bullets found in the IV category that are travelling at over 3500 feet per second up to about 5000 feet per second. Curently, the armor companies are trying to create an armor and submit the design to the army for testing. So stay tuned. Wouldn't wanna see the troops in Game2 wearing armor from the last century (literally).

[MissileDefender 0]

Actually this is something I've longed for in a game.  Things like, body armour that actually works.  Was reading the other day on the Global Armour Ltd website, their Ballistic Helmets were tested with 6 different kinds of ammunition.  A .22 cal, 9mm, 44 Magnum, 380 ACP, 357 Magnum and a 40 Smith and Wesson.  The helmet was shot 13 times without penetration of the helmet.  

This would be a class feature.  In a game like Arma,  hearing a round hitting your helmet, and maybe the players view is bounced down the ways from the impact.  Maybe someday.

[jasono 0]

It's probably one of them things you pay for in VBS

[victor1234 4]

I would like to see the current system expanded. Players should bleed to death eventually if their wounds remain unhealed, stunned for a while when they are shot (in OFP Lib mod, sometimes the shot AI unit will roll around on the ground clutching their wound for a bit of time). I would also suggest some sort of incapacitation state which would require the AI to come and carry you off to a medic, but that seems too complex. A helpless state would be useful though, after being shot, maybe allowing the enemy AI to run up and capture you.

[GaGrin 0]

I generally agree with the OP: GR had an awesome and violent wounding system; it was utterly convincing.

Solus has made a fairly good effort with his SLX mod (including incapacitation and recovery) so looking at that for inspiration on how to expand the current system would be a good idea in my opinion.

The trouble is that ArmA still uses hitpoints. To accurately simulate damage you have to drop them entirely.

[mr.g-c 6]

Yes GAME2 need a realistic hit-modell both for vehicles and humans, period!

[ModeZt 0]

Yes! That's what i whant from Game2..

I don't need dx10 and sweet graphics. Give me better gameplay and new features.

[Dynamax 0]

Actually this is something I've longed for in a game.  Things like, body armour that actually works.  Was reading the other day on the Global Armour Ltd website, their Ballistic Helmets were tested with 6 different kinds of ammunition.  A .22 cal, 9mm, 44 Magnum, 380 ACP, 357 Magnum and a 40 Smith and Wesson.  The helmet was shot 13 times without penetration of the helmet.  

This would be a class feature.  In a game like Arma,  hearing a round hitting your helmet, and maybe the players view is bounced down the ways from the impact.  Maybe someday.

the helmets in arma already have some ballistic protection.

i lost track of how many times i have shot someone in the helmet, only to watch as the round bounces or deflects off.

same goes for weapons. i'v had many shots blocked by rifles and RPG/M136 launchers that would otherwise in any other game be an outright kill.

[max power 21]

I would like to see a more realistic wounding effects too, but I think that it's not stamina that you're dealing with in regards to the number of rounds you can take before you're incapacitated. I think that it's psychological if the damage isn't crippling or fatal. For instance, you can shoot the soldiers in arma in the legs quite a few times before they die. If you do enough damage you- say- break their femurs and they can no longer walk. How many more bullets then until they die? Well, I think you can probably saw their legs off and they will continue living for a while. When they stop fighting at that point is pretty much their choice. That is, unless they lose consciousness, the limbs necessary to operate their weapon, or the organs necessary to see/breathe/live. Other than being physically damaged to the point of helplessness or unconsciousness, there's no reason for a soldier to stop fighting other than choosing not to.

[smellyjelly 0]

I've been playing with a 6thSense, the one that gives special effects when your shot, and I think it would work very well in Arma II. Basically, if you haven't played it, when you're shot the screen flashes black or white, and the length of this depends on your injuries.

I would prefer a bit of an improvement though. Along with the screen turning darker or lighter, I think our vision should also turn blurry/cross eyed and then sharper, before turning back to normal.

Another change that I would like to see, is that in the 6thSense mod, most of the time the screen will turn black, go back to normal, and then a second later it will turn white. That's not necessarly a bad thing, but I would prefer if the second in between the black and white wasn't normal. It should either be blurry or sharper as I listed before and still contain a shade or tint.

The medpacks are cool, however, I think BIS should work on redesigning it to be more "official". For example, instead of there being a message telling us that we've stopped bleeding, it would be better if there was another method. Also, the medpacks should be in our gear box so we can choose how much to take on a mission, if any at all.

[Sdstorage 0]

America's Army had an interesting model where bullets would do an initial amount of damage and then additional damage over time. Medics could only stop the damage over time, preventing the player from bleeding out, but not actually give health to the wounded.

I like that ArmA medics can bandage you up so you can stand again, but I wouldn't mind if the above system was implemented along side that.