Logical South Sahrani Kits

[DUX0726 0]

My reason for thinking that the 6-color is not the most logical choice--as stated previously--is because roughly 2/3rds of South Sahrani is not desert; it's green and rocky. So I felt that it would be more realistic for the government of South Sahrani to choose a uniform color more in accordance with the majority of their territory; that being a more greenish color, or in my preference: Israeli O.D.

[DUX0726 0]

Here is an update based upon some good suggestions. The PASGT vest cover has been changed to coyote brown. The boots are the sand color of Gulf War surplus boots. And of course the M16A2 is new. All of these things were gifts from the U.S. in my mind. The rest is leftover O.D. kit. A mish-mash indeed.

[KiwisDoFly 0]

Personally we have way, way too many troops that look the same - helmets, boots, backpacks, etc - even colours!

Like I said in the GD thread, why don't you take off the helmet and give them submachine-guns (like MP5). Make them more into a cross between police force and military.

Obviously not completely civilian-looking, but perhaps no headgear at all for some of them, and no backpacks for others, etc.

[DUX0726 0]

An interesting take on it. In a way, I really like that idea, but I would like to hear what others had to add before making a change. Thanks for the input.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Kiwisdofly has a point, and that would make themless of a professional force and more of a militia, which is basically how I envision them.

Instead of no headgear, why not the berets the especas used with a color change? That would give them that almost pseudo-elite imagery while at the same time maintaining a low quality selection of equipment.

Why not sub-machine guns or carbines for the regular troops, and assault rifles like the FN-FAL or G3 to act as the light support troops and maybe an RPD or something for the epitome of their suppresion capabilities?

[KiwisDoFly 0]

Yeah, I mean obviously the Sahrani king is on the "opressive" side of things, so it's logical for him to place militia-type units in cities to maintain order and peace, and keep better equipped units somewhere close to himself - and these units would serve as a reaction force.

[DUX0726 0]

OK, you guys have really got some great ideas here. It’s really getting my juices flowing. I’m really glad you guys are digging this ideological progression.

So, lets just assume that the Kingdom of South Sahrani is a fairly poor Monarchy; with Tourism, Oil, and limited Textile and Wine production as the backbone of its economy. The Democratic Republic of Sahrani was once a functioning Democracy but after it’s Colombo Tantalite mines petered-out, the economy was left in shambles and a Marxist Dictator—backed by Venezuela—was able to seize power and that is why the U.S. began to hold training exercises in South Sahrani so that they could have an excuse to beef up the Kingdoms Defense budget in the form of payment for allowing U.S. Troop exercises in the territory.

The South Sahrani Armed Forces are basically just a Para-military group whose sole function up to this point was to act as a police force and personal body guard for the Royal Family. Their equipment is, on average, at least 20 to 25 years old with the exception of new, “hand-me-down,†Desert Boots, PASGT Body Armor in coyote brown covers, and a selection of surplus M-16A2’s. Their strategy is shifting rapidly to one of National Defense in the form of “stop-gap defense†centered on Corozol in the event of Northern Sahrani invasion. The basic force is broken down as follows:

(650 Total Troops)

-550 Regular Army and Military Police personnel

-150 Royal Elite Guardsmen

-14 Surplus M113 Armored Troop Carriers

-5 Defender 500 “Little Bird†Helicopters

-28 2.5 Ton Trucks

-30 UAZ-style Trucks

(The average South Sahrani “Grunt†is equipped with)

-2 sets of Israeli O.D. Green BDU’s (including socks and undergarments)

-1 Surplus PASGT flack-jacket with coyote brown cover

-1 U.S. G.I. style Steel-Pot helmet, liner, and O.D. cover

-1 A.L.I.C.E. system combat rigging with “fanny pack†and old style U.S. plastic canteen

-1 pair of Desert Tan Combat Boots

-1 pair of old Goggles

-1 M-16A2 w/7 30rd clips of ammunition

-2 Lemon type High Explosive Hand Grenades

-1 Survival Knife

-1 O.D. Green Military-style Flashlight

When on Military Police duty—a duty that all South Sahrani Grunts draw upon a rotating basis—they will trade the Steel-Pot in for an O.D. Green cap that says “M.P.†on the front.

Specialized troops such as Snipers Marksmen, Machine-gunners, Engineers, and AT/AA Soldiers look the same with minor modification and primary weapons differences. See below:

-Sniper – Rugar 710 Rifle w/scope, .45 Automatic Pistol, no helmet: O.D. knit cap

-Machine-gunners – M-163, 1 Lemon-type High Explosive Grenades

-Engineers – Same as “Grunts†but with the addition of 3 mines

-AT/AA – Same as “Grunts†but with the addition of their respective tubed-weapon (U.S. Origin)

-Officers- Same as "Grunt" but with an additional .45 Pistol and wearing a Berret instead of a Helmet or Cap.

All Vehicles are painted O.D. Green with the Blue and White South Sahrani strip painted on it.

[All of the above is my mental picture of the state of the Kingdom of South Sahrani’s Army at this point in time. Please continue to help shape this world]

P.S. I was thinking that the Royal Elite Guardsmen should wear something more flamboyant and dress-oriented than the usual fatigues. Perhaps a combination of ceremonial dress and combat gear. A thought for later at the very least.

[DUX0726 0]

(Consider this a little boundry test based upon my post script from the last message I left.)

South Sahrani Royal Elite Guardsman

Ok, don't freak-out just yet. I know it's a pretty bold stroke, but take it in and see if you can refine it.

[KiwisDoFly 0]

YES

In a way, you doomed us - this must happen. We cannot live our lives without making that model come true. It is now our duty to make this - any way possible.

I do have one suggestion though: can add a pompous feather onto the hat? That would just make it perfect.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

All very interesting, but why give the regular infantrymen a

submachine gun? Why not an obsolescent battle rifle? Are

there any infantry forces in the world that are armed only

with SMGs? From your description I envisage something like

this (adding a PASGT vest):

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I do have one suggestion though: can add a pompous feather onto the hat?

...and tights?

[KiwisDoFly 0]

Oh man, now you are putting ideas into my head!

Actually, I've just noticed - you didn't give them pupils in that drawing. I think, for sanity reasons, we should add that for the final model.

[DUX0726 0]

Refresh your pages. I put the feather in his cap. Made the colors more "Royal" as well.

And yes, Col. Faulkner, I am drawing upon my fondest memories of the past as a starting point for these units. The good-ol American "Yank" soldier of WWII for the South Sahrani Grunt, and the French Forigen Legion mixed with an element of "Toy Soldier" for the Royal Guards; updated with more "modern-day" equipment of course.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I would also like to mention that the Heckler and Koch

MP5 is an unlikely choice for a "fairly poor" army. The

MP5 is quite expensive - witness the irony of the West

German Bundeswehr being unable to afford them and

using the Uzi instead.

Someone also suggested the RPD as a machine gun. That

isn't very likely either as it fires the same ammo as the AK47

(unless the riflemen use the AK47 too). I'd suggest the good

old 7.62mm NATO FN MAG, or the M60.

[KiwisDoFly 0]

Actually, can you make the feather a bit bigger? Oh, and please add epaulettes to his shoulders. Thats what he was missing.

[DUX0726 0]

I'll do more work on these tomorrow. I must retire for now. Thank you so much for the interest and suggestions. Keep them coming and I'll make changes in a few hours. Thanks again.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I see where you're coming from with the "Royal Guard"

outfit. If it was me, though, I'd just make them wear

some kind of camouflage uniform (starched and pressed

with lots of "insignia" and well different from the regular

army) with the kepi. If you start to suspect that the

kepi looks too "French" then you might want to think

of some kind of side cap (for example, similar to the

Spanish Foreign Legion )

Anyway, I'll shut up now, it's your project. I hope something

ultimately comes of it in the game.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Hmmm... MP-5 and... 7 mags? As said, M-16 or something, propably with less mags (depends... extra ammo, or full ammo load, when going to duty?). Flashbang? OK... although I think couple of smoke shells ought to be issued. I think the soldier ought to have more than 1 set of clothing. Or do they run around naked when washing their BDUs? Also, to make a complete set, down to every minor detail, you're missing something... casual. Like... working "uniform" (some even older stuff, like Herringbone twill suits?) and, well, underwear. Socks, boxers, T-shirts, etc.

The "Royal Sahrani guard" looks nice. I hope, as in The Foreign Legion, the kepi, should you decide to keep it, varies in color according to rank (they have separate officers too, don't they?). Black, red or blue for officers and white for "grunts".

Just my ideas.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Flashbang? OK... although I think couple of smoke shells ought to be issued.

Yes, I'd agree with this. A more realistic fighting load would

be two APers grenades and one WP/smoke (and some link

- ie. a length of ammo belt - for the squad/section's MG, if

you want to get that "detailed").

And please could we not have M16s? If it has to be 5.56mm

what about the steyr AUG or the FNC or the IMBEL

[mickuzy 0]

yeah an aug would look sweet

[CanadianTerror 0]

An Aug would be like me saying a C7 or C8 just because we use them.

It doesnt fit.

[DUX0726 0]

Ok, great ideas all-around, I’ll try to address each participant individually so bear with me.

Col. Faulkner – Since the South Sahrani are being propped-up—in a manner of speaking—by the U.S. Marines, then I think that M-16’s are going to just be a fact of life on Sahrani. I do think that I should pull back from the “sub-machinegun†idea based upon your very logical observations. So, it’s back to the M-16 all-round I think. Also, since I will be doing these units myself—and I have never done that before—if I can’t convince some experienced MOD folks to come on board for this project; I don’t think I will have the time or expertise to do custom weapons in addition to uniforms and load-outs. Perhaps this will change but for simplicities sake, I’ll just stick with the in-game weapons for now.

Kiwis Do Fly – I’m afraid to go any larger on the feather idea. The Kepi, which I like, probably wouldn't support much more than is there now; and even if it did, I fear the “Guardsmen†of being seen as relying upon their “insidious†slapping skills to defeat an enemy more so than their rifles. Also, his body-armor prevents epaulettes from being shown, besides, I envision him wearing a braid on one shoulder rather than epaulettes. I want him to be inspired by Foreign Legion troops, not an exact copy.

BlackScorpion – Duly noted on the issuance of BDU’s and Hand Grenades vs. Flashbangs. I will make adjustments accordingly. Thank you for pointing that out. It slipped my mind.

I am not sure about the colors on the highly customized Interceptor Body Armor that the “Guard†is wearing. Any suggestions on the color scheme? (The Blue, White and Gold are for the flag and the red, well, I don’t know about the red yet.)

P.S. What do you think about releasing these changes under the brand name "Logical Kit?"

[Col. Faulkner 0]

An Aug would be like me saying a C7 or C8 just because we use them.

It doesnt fit.

Well I suggested it first, and I've never "used it". It "fits" fine!

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Col. Faulkner – Since the South Sahrani are being propped-up—in a manner of speaking—by the U.S. Marines, then I think that M-16’s are going to just be a fact of life on Sahrani. I do think that I should pull back from the “sub-machinegun†idea based upon your very logical observations. So, it’s back to the M-16 all-round I think. Also, since I will be doing these units myself—and I have never done that before—if I can’t convince some experienced MOD folks to come on board for this project. I don’t think I will have the time or expertise to do custom weapons in addition to uniforms and load-outs. Perhaps this will change but for simplicities sake, I’ll just stick with the in-game weapons for now.

I can understand that but...Blah! Hey, let's make a deal. If

you can get models done for the humans and you want FNCs

or G3s or FALs or AUGs then I can do them for you! Don't you

worry about that! M16s are just soooo passe

I was working on models for the NI mod before it went tits up.

Here's the FAL I was working on, for example.

[DUX0726 0]

He-he. It's a deal. Thanks. I want to cover the back-story and uniforms, and have all of that material "nailed-down" before-hand, however.