Arma Patches vs Addons

[yarex 0]

Could be possible to include the best by BIS selected (with creators permittion) addons in future patches?

I think that it would be nice to have best of the best as part of patches, so there is no need to download them separately and there is some quality level quaranteed.

Also for that purpose, special forum section could be created, where creators could link their addon that they wish to iclude in patch. And then voting or BIS decision would approve it or deny.

What do you think about it?

[Messiah 2]

yes and no...

Yes: It would provide a level of assurance that the addons are of a level of quality, bug free and generally at the top of their league, and would remove any worries newer uses would have in what addons or mods to try.

No: This could get quite extesnive:

1. Would produce another 'holier than thou' marker, creating another Elite vibe through the forum... No thanks.

2. What constitutes a good addon? CP whores among us would say the pretiest, laggiest hi res texturefied addon there is, others would correctly argue its what works best with the engines, being both playable and pretty - a very hard combo in OFP, and probably the same in Arma

3. Would yet again detract from mission makers. Addon making was seen as more 'glamerous' as they got all the 'headlines' and credit, whilst misson makers were very much left in the dark, receiving little or no praise for their hard work.

4. Would attach a degree of responsibility to BIS if they were distributing these addons.

5. Placebo already runs a flashnews on the BIS website for OFP. I assume this will continue to Arma.

6. Could stunt or alienate those addon makers trying to break into the modding scene.

Can probably mention a few more, but will have to get back to you. Lunchtime

[yarex 0]

Well, BIS would make final decision and the release if addon is good or bad. So i think we wouldnt have to worry whether addon is "too good hardware required" or not.

Also then would be on map makers if they use it or not, so addon can't harm the game, even if its fancy and needs good computer. - becouse mapmapers then would have final decision whether to use it in map or not (but without need to download and distribute them among players).

Also regarding the quality: It would only improve the overall game quality, becouse addon makers would have to come with good creteated mods in order to have it approved by BIS. = motivation to do something too, if your work can be "official".

And also less work for BIS, becouse its MUCH easier just to check whether the addon is good, then just create it from 0 and include it as patch bonus.

Why do you think it would "alienate" addon makers? I think that it wil ENCOURAGE them to do some and good work, becouse their work then can get to official patch! And that is something that is recognized by players and the community.

If you create addon that is shitte, noone really is gonna use it. If its medium or around average, players can still download and try it. If it's SUPERB, then we all want to have it included without all HASSLE to search, test and download.

I don't see many, if any negatives there.

(the only one could be, the size of patch if many addons included, but i don't think that in age of fast internet it would be a big issue too. Also those "addon" patches would be released only from time to time (like 1 per month or two maybe))

[mattxr 9]

Bad idea. as Messiah pretty much sums it up..

Although question to BIS..

Could we possibly get a list of all the fixed and such thats coming in the new patch soon. Would be nice to see what we are going to get?

Other places do it

[frostwyrm333 1]

At least you wont retire before some addon will be released.

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ]Also then would be on map makers if they use it or not, so addon can't harm the game, even if its fancy and needs good computer. - becouse mapmapers then would have final decision whether to use it in map or not (but without need to download and distribute them among players).

so if its up to the mission maker to decide what entails a good addon or nor, then what's the point of this?

Quote[/b] ]Why do you think it would "alienate" addon makers? I think that it wil ENCOURAGE them to do some and good work, becouse their work then can get to official patch! And that is something that is recognized by players and the community.

on the flipside it also creatse a sense of upper eliteness within the community, thus dividing it even more so, and those who are new to addon editing will see little or no point to continue when these so called 'elite' piss all over their work.

And addon is as good as you feel it is... I certainly don't need BIS or anyone else for that matter telling me what entails a good addon.

[kueppcera 0]

i agree to messiah: there are hundreds of addons/mods for OFP, many of them made by fantastic teams (RHS, BallisticAddons, BW-Mod, CSLA and many more)...

Those names stand for quality and playability, i DL all of their addons without thinking, cause of their high standards.

For me there's no difference in giving these addons to BIS for implemantation - i think those addons are only quicker available for DL if they don't give it to BIS for inclusion to patches... ;-)

[yarex 0]

Quote[/b] ]so if its up to the mission maker to decide what entails a good addon or nor, then what's the point of this?

The point is the mapmakers will have some minimal set of addons, that they can use, and they will be sure, that all players have them working without need to download.

They dont have to look after them, search many websites (but still can if they want to) to find some good quality addon

Quote[/b] ]on the flipside it also creatse a sense of upper eliteness within the community, thus dividing it even more so, and those who are new to addon editing will see little or no point to continue when these so called 'elite' piss all over their work.

There is always some eliteness.... people that use their personal time to create something nice for masses and they are good in it. Why not to allow them to contribute more offitially without hassle to create own addon website, or created component spread among all created ";mod" websites where is not that easy to find them and distribute?

Quote[/b] ]

And addon is as good as you feel it is... I certainly don't need BIS or anyone else for that matter telling me what entails a good addon.

BIS is giving already this game and they are quite good innit. If you trust them with game/engine, why not in ability to pick good addons among players forum vote or recommendation?

[yarex 0]

Quote[/b] ]i agree to messiah: there are hundreds of addons/mods for OFP, many of them made by fantastic teams (RHS, BallisticAddons, BW-Mod, CSLA and many more)...

Those names stand for quality and playability, i DL all of their addons without thinking, cause of their high standards.

For me there's no difference in giving these addons to BIS for implemantation - i think those addons are only quicker available for DL if they don't give it to BIS for inclusion to patches... ;-)

But now you have to search for them,download them, make sure that other players have them too. Include in officitial "xtra addon" would help even them to become even more popular and gave better choice to pick from not only for you that knows that the addon exist, but also for all players that jsut have to download patch, map and thatz it.

No more hassle with different map requirest different set of addons and sometimes not compatible or slightly modified. (problematic naming conventions)

[Dallas 9]

Why mess with an already perfect sollution. BIS will focus on their patches and future addon packs and the community have free hands for trial and error.

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ]The point is the mapmakers will have some minimal set of addons, that they can use, and they will be sure, that all players have them working without need to download.

They dont have to look after them, search many websites (but still can if they want to) to find some good quality addon

Ok, I understand and see the merits of this point BUT then aren't you forcing addons apon people in these patches, addons they may not want in the first place?

So you'd say that they have the option not to download them... but then that goes against your argument that these patch addons would be ones you could be sure everyone has... back to square one, back to trusting your own instincts.

Quote[/b] ]There is always some eliteness.... people that use their personal time to create something nice for masses and they are good in it. Why not to allow them to contribute more offitially without hassle to create own addon website, or created component spread among all created ";mod" websites where is not that easy to find them and distribute?

So we should try and avoid expanding their inflated egos with such things. I fear the time when some of the lesser members of the CWR team try and trump a discussion on these forums with 'I work for BIS' or words to that effect... It'll happen, I assure you.

OFP.info suited me and possibly 90% of this community in terms of hosting addons, sorting and categorising addons, without rating them or giving any opinion on them. They treated all addons as equal (animal farm anyone) and let the consumer decide.

Quote[/b] ]Those names stand for quality and playability, i DL all of their addons without thinking, cause of their high standards.

exactly (although where's UKF - lol) and thats the only system thats bound to work - people vote with their downloads, and those making missions use those addons they feel are the best ones in the community/suit their needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to piss over your idea for shits and giggles, I'm merely discussing the pros and cons of it

[yarex 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ok, I understand and see the merits of this point BUT then aren't you forcing addons apon people in these patches, addons they may not want in the first place?

You are not forcing anyone if you include some addition for download, that can be used in some mission or custom campaign. It won't efeect people that don't like that addon in any way (as noone is forcing them to play map with that addon or they still have freedom to download and try it old fashion way).

Quote[/b] ]So we should try and avoid expanding their inflated egos with such things. I fear the time when some of the lesser members of the CWR team try and trump a discussion on these forums with 'I work for BIS' or words to that effect... It'll happen, I assure you.

I think that you are completely wrong with those "egoes". Am come from Slovakia and i lived in Prague 5 years am a programmer too so i know what kind of guys are they. I'll tell you that these guys are hard working for (if compared to west) small reward. They have no chance to have some big ego. BIS is small company if compared to other big ones. And if you see how they support, reply to posts and topics, you see how they care about their product, HOW DARE YOU put something like that against them into your mouth!?

Quote[/b] ]

OFP.info suited me and possibly 90% of this community in terms of hosting addons, sorting and categorising addons, without rating them or giving any opinion on them. They treated all addons as equal (animal farm anyone) and let the consumer decide.Those names stand for quality and playability, i DL all of their addons without thinking, cause of their high standards.

You will still have old option to download and try custom addons. Am not saying that its bad way. But you can't be that selphish. What about other people that don't have time to search, care about install, read all install guides who to copy where, try if it really works and just want to play and have quality and fun without all that extra hassle?

Quote[/b] ]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to piss over your idea for shits and giggles, I'm merely discussing the pros and cons of it

I like to discuss things, that was the point why i send it here to discuss with players and not just in email directly to BIS.

Also i would like to hear the input from more players and also from some moderators or forum representatives too if possible.

Imagine, that later, if that idea would become reality also developers could focus PURELY on game engine, graphics and things inside + tools for addons and map makers. Community would specialize in the rest and still BIS would have it under controll and would function as consolidator.

{why not to let it in their hands, they are still one that own the engine and without them you can't do your part and support you can't do your custom modding even if it would be independent}

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ]You are not forcing anyone if you include some addition for download, that can be used in some mission or custom campaign. It won't efeect people that don't like that addon in any way (as noone is forcing them to play map with that addon or they still have freedom to download and try it old fashion way).

but by adding it to the patch, you are forcing them to download it... My OFP folder was 8 gig, and I know thats relativly small comapared to some of the users here. If BIS were to include every good addon in a patch, you'd be adding gigs and gigs of addons to the addon folder, removing valuable space on HD's, and you're still not giving people a choice. It may be the best addon ever conceived, but I frankly wouldnt want BIS deciding that the 'barbie' mod was a must have for me.

Quote[/b] ]I think that you are completely wrong with those "egoes". Am come from Slovakia and i lived in Prague 5 years am a programmer too so i know what kind of guys are they. I'll tell you that these guys are hard working for (if compared to west) small reward. They have no chance to have some big ego. BIS is small company if compared to other big ones. And if you see how they support, reply to posts and topics, you see how they care about their product, HOW DARE YOU put something like that against them into your mouth!?

Perhaps its how I wrote it, perhaps its a language barrier, or perhaps you're unaware of who the CWR team are. Not anywhere did I insult BIS, insult the eastern block or insult anyone for that matter - Re-read my post and calm down a little... I was merely pointing out that some people who are pointed out, or help BIS from the community, tend to come over a little big headed afterwards... this has nothing to do with the guys who work at Bohemia in anyway, I have nothing but respect for people who do this job full time. This one-up-manship and high horse'ness was also shown to some degree with certain members of the VBS community, but thats a different storry altogether and one really not suited for these forums, if only to save arguments.

Quote[/b] ]

You will still have old option to download and try custom addons. Am not saying that its bad way. But you can't be that selphish. What about other people that don't have time to search, care about install, read all install guides who to copy where, try if it really works and just want to play and have quality and fun without all that extra hassle?

very true. I do believe someone mentioned something about having a central databank of all the ofp addons which would only host the most recent of those addons, thus solving what you're trying to acheive but removing the enthasis on requiring some sort of validation or praise from BIS, who I'm certain would rather remain unbiased in unofficial addons.

Quote[/b] ]Imagine, that later, if that idea would become reality also developers could focus PURELY on game engine, graphics and things inside + tools for addons and map makers. Community would specialize in the rest and still BIS would have it under controll and would function as consolidator.

They can still do that, but without the need to offer their validation of addons... With the tools the community provides the content, with the spare time BIS provide the patches for the engine.

[dm 9]

You are not forcing anyone if you include some addition for download, that can be used in some mission or custom campaign. It won't efeect people that don't like that addon in any way (as noone is forcing them to play map with that addon or they still have freedom to download and try it old fashion way).

Yes, you are forcing addons on people with this method. If the addon is part of the patch, then players HAVE to download the addons to be able to patch their game. If thats not forcing content on people, I dont know what is...

I think that you are completely wrong with those "egoes". Am come from Slovakia and i lived in Prague 5 years am a programmer too so i know what kind of guys are they. I'll tell you that these guys are hard working for (if compared to west) small reward. They have no chance to have some big ego. BIS is small company if compared to other big ones. And if you see how they support, reply to posts and topics, you see how they care about their product, HOW DARE YOU put something like that against them into your mouth!?

Umm... You do realise that he's talking about the addon makers and their egos, not BI. God knows I've been bashed enough for "having a giant ego"

You will still have old option to download and try custom addons. Am not saying that its bad way. But you can't be that selphish. What about other people that don't have time to search, care about install, read all install guides who to copy where, try if it really works and just want to play and have quality and fun without all that extra hassle?

Ok, what about people who have limited bandwidth available to them? If you force them to download say 200Mb worth of addons every time BI release a patch, then that is selfishly using their precious bandwidth for addons they may not want. This comes back to the point of "what is a good addon" since something like LegaWars can be an excellent addon, but not everyone wants it. To include it in the patch and force players to download it is just as "selfish" as not doing it.

I like to discuss things, that was the point why i send it here to discuss with players and not just in email directly to BIS.

Also i would like to hear the input from more players and also from some moderators or forum representatives too if possible.

Imagine, that later, if that idea would become reality also developers could focus PURELY on game engine, graphics and things inside + tools for addons and map makers. Community would specialize in the rest and still BIS would have it under controll and would function as consolidator.

{why not to let it in their hands, they are still one that own the engine and without them you can't do your part and support you can't do your custom modding even if it would be independent}

Do you realise what a logistical nightmare it would be to manage all that user made content, especially if you want to moderate it so that only "high quality" content is included?

BI would have to employ a whole new team of quality assurance staff just to deal with this system, and even then it would take a long time for content to be checked, marked for improvement, sent back to the addon makers, re-submitted, checked again, added to the patch, and then left waiting until the next patch release.

Whilst its a good idea in theory, in practice its a nightmare to manage, impractical for both the addon makers and BI, and way way out of the scope of game content creation.

Nice idea, but it wont happen any time soon in my honest opinion. (Just look at "Addons At Ease" for OFP, nothing outside BI content was ever officially varified for it over the ~2 years the program ran.)

[yarex 0]

I didnt say that all addons would be released that way, only the best of the best could be hand picked. That doesn't mean forcint people to download xxxMB addon packs, maybe only xxMB and that shoudlnt be that bad.

Even now if you are can't download patches or addons/maps, you dont have a chance do play some custom maps (ofp, not arma yet of course).

But many people, many tastes, i'd prefer to do the search and choose the right addon job by BIS and i'd then get only interesting or other that i'd like to.

I also appreciate your opinion even in if different from mine .

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ]I also appreciate your opinion even in if different from mine

same goes - it would be a rather dull forums if we all agreed

[yarex 0]

Quote[/b] ]same goes - it would be a rather dull forums if we all agreed

Yeah, we will discuss here and the fight let for the Arma battlefield

[somebloke 0]

Quote[/b] ]same goes - it would be a rather dull forums if we all agreed

Yeah, we will discuss here and the fight let for the Arma battlefield      

Be warned, he has bayonets. And armed Landies.

[dm 9]

I didnt say that all addons would be released that way, only the best of the best could be hand picked. That doesn't mean forcint people to download xxxMB addon packs, maybe only xxMB and that shoudlnt be that bad.

Yes, but that still brings us to the point of "whats the best?"

It could be that someone creates the best, most realistic barbie mod (to steal Messy's idea ) or that someone creates the best, most realistic medieval knights, or someone creates the best, most realistic pirate mod. The point is, should content like that, even if it's 100% bug free and 100% optimised for the engine, be included in patches which forces people to download it?

[yarex 0]

Quote[/b] ]Be warned, he has bayonets. And armed Landies.

Aaah, you mean this kind of gear:

http://www.coolbusinessideas.com/archives/armed_ladies.html

[Messiah 2]

no, something along the lines of this:

Pic

not as pretty, but much more fun

[wipman 1]

Hi, i think that the game's patches should just fix the bugs found in the game engine; the community addons should be in my opinion... 100% appart of the game itself or it's patches.

If BIS some day decide that they will include 1 or 2 car, unit, tank, APC, IFV, CFV, weapon, chopper, plane or boat into a patch, they should or better said... *could... hire that man/woman to work for BIS as the resoult of win some kind of "competition" where the award be the question of "do you want to work with us, beeing payed?", because afther all... if the addon comes in a patch and with time it's a requirement to enjoy part of the content of the game (like play online with other players) then BIS will proffit from the work of this man/woman too so... or you are robbed miserably... by that Eula "thing..." or they'll have to pay the man; and as we all know... less people in the table = more food for us. Let's C ya

*Edit