Rainbow Six:Vegas (360)

[maxqubit 1]

Now let's talk about RS:Vegas on 360. While GRAW was a big disappointment for me, the SP and MP demos of RS:Vegas on 360 (XBL) made me say WOW!!!!!!!!!! Man, this is a great title. The controls handle perfectly, it is truely amazing how much is stuffed onto the controller scheme. Your buddies are properly capable and much less jokers than those buddies of GRAW. Directing them is very, very fluid and a joy to do.

But the best thing is the 'sticking to wall, looking/shooting around the corner' ... Man this is done so incredibly well AND it works in MP too (which is not the case in GRAW). You could argue that the perspective moves to 3rd when doing this but i have no probs with that.

Gone too is the 'stiff' targeting of RS:BA ... i dunno, i could be me but i never felt at ease with the targeting in the previous RS games (and others complained about this too) but in RS:Vegas it is smooth as silk.

In RS:Vegas you've got a decent campaign, coop and versus with a lot of modes. With my XBL Friends List full with buddies it will be hours of fun with this title. Ohhh, did i mention you can scan your head in RS:Vegas ... :)

Hmmm, i didn't expect RS:Vegas to be this good/fun. Hats off!

-- Max

PS: It is good to see that on occasion some very fun and good shooter pops up deserving a place next to the Flashpoint universe

[Garcia 0]

I don't think RS: Vegas will be even close to as good as the earlier RS games. IMO the RS games have moved further and further away from realism. And from what I've seen from RS: Vegas it looks very arcadish with loads of nice colors and lights etc. IIRC many other fans of the RS series share my opinion...

[sanctuary 19]

Wasn't there a tradition of having each Rainbow Six having a name using the initials R and S in its title (Rainbow Six , Rogue Spear, Raven Shield) ?

[EiZei 0]

Wasn't there a tradition of having each Rainbow Six having a name using the initials R and S in its title (Rainbow Six , Rogue Spear, Raven Shield) ?

They also had a tradition of not sucking as well.

[crassus 0]

IIRC many other fans of the RS series share my opinion...

I certainly do....

I know I'll demo it, but since it's only going to be a "prettier" version "Rainblow Six: Suckdown" it will not stay on the HD long.

[Heatseeker 0]

Wasn't there a tradition of having each Rainbow Six having a name using the initials R and S in its title (Rainbow Six , Rogue Spear, Raven Shield) ?

They also had a tradition of not sucking as well.

I dont know what happened to Redstorm..

Ubisoft keeps releasing barely functional console ports for the PC, i think RS: Letdown killed the series, i remember the models with lipstick and fashionable hair style in the demo. Erghh . Vegas might even be a good game but the chances of a proper PC version are none.

They dumped SF but now the games arent worth purchasing anyway so.

RIP.

[Journeyman 0]

Raven Shield/Athena Sword is still fun on the PC and still looks good despite its 2 yrs old now plus has the advantage of running smooth full maxed out on your ave. current PC!

Is this 'Vegas' for PC also? I'm not interested in 360 but my wife loves the RS titles on PC! Arcady but great fun for a quick bash at least!  

PS. Prolly will need a ton of patches though just like RS unless Ubisoft has tightened its belt! And yes: what ever happened to Redstorm?

[maxqubit 1]

How come i already guessed the typical answers to my post.

C'mon guys, you hardly can be called 'gamers' anymore. More like simulation specialist or something.

But hey, i don't care, i (at least) play as easily ArmA next to RS:Vegas. I know quality when i see it. And sure as hell RS:Vegas delivers (unexpeted but it still does). If i can have a great time with friends i really see no point in denying it.

And don't think i fall easily for FPS shooters or something. GoW, Fear and even GRAW don't come even close to the superior 'fun' of RS:Vegas.

And be fair, OFP and ArmA for that matter just don't have this 'stick to wall shoot around thingy' ... and perhaps it SOUNDS arcady, but it surely FEELS much more real than NOT BEING ABLE to do this in any other shooter.

I'm NOT saying anything bad on ArmA but i refuse to deny that other good games still are being made (and RS:Vegas is one of them in my book)

[Garcia 0]

A gamer is someone who plays a lot of computer games, he doesn't have to play loads of different games. Besides, the reason why people don't fancy RS anymore is because they've made it another game in the "FPS crowd". Rainbow Six was one of it's kind, just like OFP was (until ArmA ). Rainbow Six was realistic, it didn't blend with all the other FPS games, it was something special. Now RS is becoming more and more "just one of the FPS games". Sure, I could probably have fun playing RS, but I'd much rather have much more fun playing RS as it used to be. And since RS once was good, I prefer not playing the newer games so I don't have to ruin my good memories from previous RS games that actually was good. And besides, playing some newer crappy RS game will just be a letdown compared to the good ones, and therefor less fun than playing a game that have been the same arcadish game always...I mean, what would disappoint you most, if Game2 was 100% arcade, or if Medal Of Honor: Something something was 100% arcade? For me, Game2 would be such a big disappointment that I wouldn't play it, because I would have bought it to get a OFP/ArmA like game, not a arcade game, while if I bought a MoH game I would expect a arcade game, and therefor not be disappointed. Just like I would expect a realistic FPS game when I hear Rainbow Six...

[Baff2 0]

After Ravenshield, I won't be buying any more Tom Clancy franchises.

The programmers that made Redstorm a great company left when they sold it to Ubi. It's just a brandname now.

Unfortunately I don't own an XBox. So I won't get to judge R6 Vegas on it's own merits. I know that I won't be downloading any demo that shows up for the PC. I also know that I won't be buying an Xbox on the need to play any games released on it so far. Maybe Vegas is the one, but given the track record of the franchise, I'll risk missing my chance.

A lot of people sound quite excited about it. Ubisoft are the masters of promotion so this is as I expect. It will sell very well even if it is only an average game.

Despite buying almost all of the previous R6 titles, I am not the target audience for this game. Thanks for the review Max, I'm certainly intrested in charting the success or failure of this franchise. I have invested too many hours of my life in it's predessecors not to want to know.

[shadow 6]

I believe RvS was the last R6 game. Letdown was just another shooter. Vegas is also just another shooter with pretty graphics, but I see potential if the modding opportunities are there.

The R6-series is all about creating a plan and executing it as a team. Vegas is a series of linear corridor maps forcing the player through a series of chokepoints. The R6-series is all about lethality. Vegas has auto-healing. The R6-series have atmosphere. Vegas has eeeh...lights. The R6-series have lean. Vegas have an out of body experience.

Vegas has the best ironsights I've seen though

If we can mod it to be reallistic and remove the cheesy cliche dialogs, create new maps, add lean, remove the stupid auto-healing and the ridiculous 3rd person lean/cheat I think Vegas can be quite enjoyable.

Quote[/b] ]Is this 'Vegas' for PC also?

Yes, but as usual, Ubi aint telling anything to the pc community

It will be released on Dec 1 along with the 360 version. Supposedly what you see in the 360-version is what you get in the PC-version.

Quote[/b] ]A lot of people sound quite excited about it. Ubisoft are the masters of promotion so this is as I expect.

Too bad they are the loosers of community and product support. We can only hope the engine is open for modding and that Epic have released tools that we can make work with Vegas, because I have absolutely no expectations there when it comes to Ubi. See RvS community support for my arguement.

[maxqubit 1]

A lot of people sound quite excited about it. Ubisoft are the masters of promotion so this is as I expect. It will sell very well even if it is only an average game.

The REALITY (at least for me) is that i didn't give a damn about any RS game on xbox before. Sure i played RS:BA but i always had issues with it. Furthermore i preferred GR and GR:IT over RS.

Anyway, as i said, i didn't pay attention to RS:Vegas. Sure the screenies were nice but i thought, f*ck them i will not be interested. Then comes along the demo (Yep, XBL is a great thing) and yes i was immediately hooked (same as e.g. with Elite or OFP for that matter)

Now, what is the difference between GRAW, GoW, Prey, Fear, BF2, FArCry, SC:DA and RS:Vegas ... mate you tell me ... I was just hooked instantly. On the Sp as well as on the MP.

Now i very well know it will wear off a bit. But being hooked doesn't lie. That are those very, very rare games that just blend it all together and play like a dream.

You can stick and shoot around corner in Graw and GoW, and you can do the same in Vegas. Now in GRAW it just isn't done right, in GoW i couldn't get used to it in the short time i played it but RS:Vegas .... a dream come true:)

And that aspect alone already adds so much to the game, you have to play it to believe it (a bit what those TrackIR boys tell you;)

Anyway, it was only a demo and my 360 is away for repair (You all may laugh now!!! f*cking MS really bs'd around with the hw:) but i'm very eager to have a 360 back and play RS:Vegas on it with my friends. It seems like the perfect partner albeit bit less hard-core next to ArmA (the German release)

[maxqubit 1]

Vegas has auto-healing.

So? ArmA has 'Restart mission'.

It is a game you know, you do not really really die. Not in RS:V not in ArmA.

[shadow 6]

You can stick and shoot around corner in Graw and GoW, and you can do the same in Vegas. Now in GRAW it just isn't done right...

You really should give GRAW on the PC a chance. GRAW on the 360 is not Ghost Recon, its just another 3rd person shooter. I have both.

Give GRAW PC a chance with my realism and HUD mod.

I have no idea what game you mean by "GoW".

Quote[/b] ]

Vegas has auto-healing.

So? ArmA has 'Restart mission'.

It is a game you know, you do not really really die. Not in RS:V not in ArmA.

Great arguement there.

[Garcia 0]

Vegas has auto-healing.

So? ArmA has 'Restart mission'.

It is a game you know, you do not really really die. Not in RS:V not in ArmA.

So using that logic, you mean that restarting missions is the same as auto-healing? So if a game doesn't want the player to be able to magically heal his wounds, then the player should neither be allowed to play the mission more than once? There is a veeeeeeeeery big difference in letting the player start the mission over again, and letting the player have some fancy unlogical healing system. The difference is, if you restart the mission, you start at the begining. You have to do everything all over again. With auto-healing you can just chill a bit and then you're as good as you were at the start of the mission...except you don't have to do anything again...

You don't auto-heal in real life, neither do you in ArmA...but you do in R6: Vegas...actually that comment is like comparing godmode cheat to save/load...

[maxqubit 1]

Quote[/b] ]

Vegas has auto-healing.

So? ArmA has 'Restart mission'.

It is a game you know, you do not really really die. Not in RS:V not in ArmA.

Great arguement there. :whi:

Indeed.

The whole point of virtuality is that you can't really die.

Because if you really could die, RS:Vegas and ArmA would give you the EXACT same tension and FEAR. You shit your pants and wouldn't even dare to move be it in an lineair corridor shooter or on a wide open island.

You don't have to explain ArmA for me. I have spend 4 months straight on Elite from 22:00 to 3:00. I'm still recovering.

I'm only saying RS:Vegas is a quality GAME and i'm not joining the ranks were ppl think ArmA (or some old RS game) is the only game in town. Sometimes you drink wine, other times you drink beer or even cola or water. To say beer is for losers or something is just not my style. You have quality wine, quality beer, quality cola and even quality water. I think you get my point.

For a realism 'shot' i'll play ArmA. For a more action orientend quality game i'll have RS:Vegas, my 360 wasn't a waste after all (just waiting for ArmA/360).

[Heatseeker 0]

GRAW PC might play diferent but the game has unrealistic HW requirements and too many issues, compared to GR nobody is playing or cares about it...

I expect the PC version of RS: Vegas to take the same route of SCDA, unoptimised console port ala Ubi style with unsuitable gameplay, no thanks..

Redstorm died because they milked their old engine and didnt evolute, thats why Noobisoft developers used Unreal to make RvS. It had its issues but atleast it looked good and the a.i. was decent. I dont see myself buying anything Ubisoft for years to come...

Quote[/b] ]I have no idea what game you mean by "GoW".

Gears of war ?

[Journeyman 0]

I believe RvS was the last R6 game.

Yep agreed! I think Raven Shield was started by Redstorm and finished (badly) by UBi (hence the ton of required patches). Since Raven Shield I haven’t been persuaded by any other so called R6 titles by Ubisoft. I followed their forums upon RvS' release and boy were there some pissed off ppl! Ubisoft stink when it comes to support and couldn't give a toss about any community! Fortunately the game turned out to be a winner the with old R6 fans and still has a decent community today much the same as old GR.

RvS and GR still kick ass on my PCs and still look good today without demanding on specs. As for all the new spec hungry titles emerging one after the other with nothing to distinguish them apart I'm afraid I've lost interest. GRAW has lost it with me too! I never finished it although its a nice looking game the AI suck big time and the GR series has just lost its fun element for me! An interesting game but nothing to keep me coming back ... same with most new titles these days!

[Baff2 0]

The brains at Redstorm sold the company to Ubisoft during the development of Ghost Recon.

R6 Covert Ops was the first Ubisoft owned release they made.

[shadow 6]

For a realism 'shot' i'll play ArmA. For a more action orientend quality game i'll have RS:Vegas, my 360 wasn't a waste after all (just waiting for ArmA/360).

Thats why most of us are saying what we're saying.

If we want to play a reallistic and tense R6 game which basicly is what made R6-series famous and such a huge success we'd have to play the first 3 R6-games.

R6:4 is not the same type of game the first 3 are and neither will this 5th game be. Is it wrong of us to wish that Vegas would follow in the first three R6 games' footsteps?

Quote[/b] ]I expect the PC version of RS: Vegas to take the same route of SCDA, unoptimised console port ala Ubi style with unsuitable gameplay,

Thats maybe a bit extreme. SCDA for the PC was made by the incompetent Ubi Shanghai  

I cant comment on the "unsuitable gameplay". I still havent played the game and I bought it on release.  You see, the game is optimized for dual cores, basicly that means it wont start with a dual core CPU

Quote[/b] ]GRAW PC might play diferent but the game has unrealistic HW requirements and too many issues

I dont see any issues in v1.3 , but I never saw any major issues in the previous versions either except for AI pathfinding. The pathfinding is nice in 1.3 but where this game really shine is coop. In regards to the hw requirements I forgot about it, but yes I agree, they are a bit high. Its just that with a SLI-card (7950GX2) you tend to forget about the hw reqs.

[Kirby 2]

Max, you're 360 repaired yet?

Don't count on it coming back soon. Or being repaired when it dose. MS suck when it comes to fixing stuff... Mines sat on my desk, unplayable because Mum decided to pack up the 360 while I was away and shipped it off with the Powerpack, so i dont evn know if its repaired poperly (they sent it back to us twice unrepaired) now I aint got one because they keep saying they'll send it in 5 days... last time they said that was about 5 weeks ago.

I might get R6 after playing the demo. Maybe I could shoot you some time?  

[maxqubit 1]

Is it wrong of us to wish that Vegas would follow in the first three R6 games' footsteps?

Nope it is not wrong. But why don't you just stick to those 3 games. What would you want of a new game besides a gfx update? would you be prepared to accept the new 'cover' system found in RS:Vegas? If not, play it safe, stick to 2001 or something and the 3 RS games you like (i don't take them away from you) ... and as someone said, those games now play 'maxed out' on even the most modest hw (i even might try them myself hahaha, with the 360 away for repair)

[maxqubit 1]

Max, you're 360 repaired yet?

...

I might get R6 after playing the demo. Maybe I could shoot you some time?  :D

Nope, UPS just picked it up yesterday.

While i like the xbox and 360 very much i think MS f*cked up very badly with the 360 hw. Dunno what it is but 8 out of 23 gamers in my clan have/had probs with the 360. Very very very BAD i can't say otherwise.

I added a complain letter with the package. It won't impress MS i'm sure but i felt this was the least i had to do.

Anyway, who knows we'll meet in RS:Vegas sometime:)

[Kirby 2]

I might gear up my clan to play it (We play both OFP for PC and X360 games).

Look out for a bunch of idiots running in cirlces looking at the floor or sky with an irritated looking guy trying to lead them...

Edit: lol. Www.MaxQubit.Com? nice

[Garcia 0]

Is it wrong of us to wish that Vegas would follow in the first three R6 games' footsteps?

Nope it is not wrong. But why don't you just stick to those 3 games. What would you want of a new game besides a gfx update? would you be prepared to accept the new 'cover' system found in RS:Vegas? If not, play it safe, stick to 2001 or something and the 3 RS games you like (i don't take them away from you) ... and as someone said, those games now play 'maxed out' on even the most modest hw (i even might try them myself hahaha, with the 360 away for repair)

You are TOTALLY missing the point. Why do you care about ArmA? Why don't you stick to OFP? You care about ArmA because it's (hopefully and probably) a step further towards realism and even better than OFP on the things that made OFP special. There is always something to improve, not only GFX, even for R6. None of the 3 first R6 games were perfect, and even though we had 1000 R6 games after them, and every new game was better the the one before, none of the would still be perfect. And since there is no other game out there that can take R6s spot, fans of the R6 series simply don't like that some fools come in and make it one of many arcade, straight forward FPS games...we want R6 to be what it was, we want the game to be something special. If I want a arcade shooter, I already got loads to choose from, many of the as good or better than R6: Vegas. I don't support fools who ruin a good game...