.50 cal rifle

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Potatoman @ Mar. 08 2002,16:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also i've seen pictures of israeli snipers in the west bank with barretts. They obviously don't mind using it on palestinians.<span id='postcolor'>

From the article about sniping in the IDF at ISAYERET.COM:

"The Barrett M82A1 Hard Target Interdiction (HTI) rifle was issue to all units as an accurate battalion level fire support and anti material weapon up to 1200 meters range. In theory, the M82A1 could have been also used for extreme long range sniping (over 1000 meters) against human targets. However, in practice, the M82A1 is one of the worst sniper rifles around, especially since the IDF can't afford the very expensive 0.50 match ammunition and uses the M82A1 with a standard low quality armor piercing heavy Machine Guns 0.50 ammunition. So the M82A1 is mainly used for HTI and for Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) shooting.

[norelsk 0]

Regarding the tank kill debate. You are both right.

A 12.7 MM round, even a SLAP round, will not penetrate a tanks armor. However, you do not need to blow a hole in a tank neutralize it.

For example, knocking out targeting systems, periscopes, or breaking the tread on a tank all help to degrade the ability of said tank to be an effective combat unit. Just rent the movie about the Russian Tank in Afghanistan. A .50 SLAP round can take out key components of the tank if the angle is right.

The problem in OFP is the damage model does not include in detail the various systems on a MBT or IFV. A model that did was in the old Twilight 2000 pen and paper game for all of you old timers.

Regards,

Norelsk

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

That is a wicked film. Damn! What is it called?

Don't the rebels destroy the tank in a rockfall? Or is it an RPG? I can't remember so much happens in that film and it has been a while since I've seen it last.

I said before we need sophisticated damage areas in order for a anti-material rifle to be of any use in OFP.

Jubs

[DodgeME 0]

I fell pity for that tank. It was a T-72 l think. Well they fired one rgp but they all they hit was air

A second rgp got the tank but didn't do much damage. And ad the end some women!!! throw huge rocks on the tank from a clift braking the chains of the tank and causing a fire!!!

Hmmm if only l were on the tank

Well that movie was cool but also unrealistic. Come on they disabled a tank in that way

[DodgeME 0]

As for the .50 . Well think!!!

If it was able to destroy modern MTB's then tanks should had something like muli cannon .50 firing then at a fast rate at other tanks lol and not 120 or 125mm turrets!

[FLYBOY4258 0]

Back in WWII the US Rangers used .50's to destroy German tanks. the round itself didnt destroy the tank, it was the round bounceing around the turret and hull that destroyed it. i know a lot of people will disagree with me but a .50 DU round will peirce the armor or a MDB it won't destroy it like mos of you are saying. the main objective for us .50 user in the rangers in to get it to sit still to be destroyed by the AT team

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DodgeME @ Mar. 16 2002,22:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well that movie was cool but also unrealistic.<span id='postcolor'>

mmm...isn't it a true story based on the account of the 'deserter'? You know the 4th crew member that was thrown out of the tank and chained to a rock to be either eaten by wild dogs and vultures or blown up by the grenade behind his neck by his crew members? He was captured by the Afgan rebels and joined their side helping them use the weapons they had stolen from the Russians. After the war he was tried and I think the film was based on his testimony...I could of cause by talking out of my arse again.

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FLYBOY4258 @ Mar. 16 2002,23:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back in WWII the US Rangers used .50's to destroy German tanks. the round itself didnt destroy the tank, it was the round bounceing around the turret and hull that destroyed it. i know a lot of people will disagree with me but a .50 DU round will peirce the armor or a MDB it won't destroy it like mos of you are saying. the main objective for us .50 user in the rangers in to get it to sit still to be destroyed by the AT team<span id='postcolor'>

I think people when they talk of 'destroying' a tank are think to much in terms of OFP. I mean a huge explosion resulting in a burnt out carcas....of course a .50 won't do that. What it might be able to do is penetrate the armour and ricoche around a bit possably hitting a crew member, thus disabling the tank or at least dramatically slowing it down.

And when people talk of .50s disabling tanks they are not talking about .50s from a M2 Browning machine gun or a .50 Desert Eagle, they are talking about anti-material rifles like the M82A1 and the M82A2. The M82A1 has been know to shoot straight through 6 buildings. No I don't know exactly how 6 buildings compare to the side of a tank, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to pierce the armour of some MBTs.

Jubs

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DodgeME @ Mar. 16 2002,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for the .50 . Well think!!!

If it was able to destroy modern MTB's then tanks should had something like muli cannon .50 firing then at a fast rate at other tanks lol and not 120 or 125mm turrets!<span id='postcolor'>

Because that might kill the crew inside but my not disable the tank mechanically wise, meaning someone else could jump in and fire back.

Also you are almost assured after hitting a tank with a HEAT shell that the occupants are dead...there is no certainty after hitting it with a burst of .50s.

Jubs

[DarkSoul 0]

duh!! Barret isnt anything compared to this rifle

20x83.5 mm or 14.5x114 mm versions of

NTW-20 ANTI-MATERIEL RIFLE

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

Oh excuse me!

Is said weapon in military service? I think not!

Duh!

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SEALs armed with Barett 50 cals can take out an M60 Patton tank at over 500 yards.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh my God!, talk about ignorance. Where did you find this info? Was it in a crappy B movie? Or did you make it up?

The .50 BMG was concieved as an Anti-Tank round - In WWI ! They took the standard .30-06 round and enlarged it by 66% but by the time the round was implemented, the war was over.

Here's a quote about the .50BMG that I found...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The .50 Browning Machine Gun cartridge (.50

BMG) was inspired by the effectiveness of

German anti-tank rifles of WWI. John Browning

subsequently developed the fully-automatic

heavy machine gun and ammunition, adopted

by the military in 1923<span id='postcolor'>

Anyways, there is no way in hell that a .50 BMG round can penetrate ANY MBT from now or even 60 years ago, anyone who thinks so is grossly missinformed, or just an idiot.

Case closed.

Tyler

[eh remraf 0]

Maybe if they think that all MBTs are made of rolled homogenous armour. But there not. You guys are sadly mistaken on this subject. Hell, SLAP round would have a hard time making a noise on modern MBTs. The only way one would penetrate is by hitting a thin skin on the tank. Heres proof. Listen and learn! This Marine will set you straight.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/50cal56k.rm

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Thanks, but I don't have Real Player and I refuse to get it!

Can you give me the jist of it?

[eh remraf 0]

Basically it gives the specs and terminal ballistics of the M82A1 SASR used by the Marines Scouter/Sniper teams. It shows the gun mechanics, and ballistics. Things included a 1 inch thick rolled homogenous peice of armor found on BMPs, a 600lb Safe, 1 and a half thick bullet resistant glass, a ford trator plate, concrete cinder blocks, and a 2 inch thick manhole.

[FLYBOY4258 0]

A little note to Assault(Can) we (Army Rangers) have tooken and old T-72 and using a M82a1 put holes in it if you hit it right the round will go throught the whole tank, but one whould have to hit it right between the hull and turret i've seen it once and it was by my CO. like some one said before when people say a .50 most think of the M2 or the .50AE that MR(Magnum Research, maker of he Desert Eagle)uses. the rounds we use are of DU. we can bust a hole in a tank from almost a mile and a half away. not destroying it though. the idea is to break the motor of the turrets or the engine or key componets on the tank, or pending on range, killing a crew member with the bullet bouncing around the crew compartment of the tank. I remeber back in Desert Storm i destroyed a T-72 with my .50 BUT i hit the storage box for spare rounds for the main gun which made a big hole in the tank so if your lucky you can destroy a tank with a .50

[Major Fubar 0]

Flyboy, you're not pulling our legs, are you?

[XtremeX19 0]

its times like this where u cant tell....

[eh remraf 0]

It's kind of hard to hit anything precise from 1 mile away with the M82A1. It's MOS will all military permitted rounds is around a 2"MOS. Thats 2 inches it deviates. I can see taking out a motor block but not bouncing one through the turret and hall joints. With match grade ammo which is lighter and doesn't have any armor penetration you can get a good 1"MOS. But that will not take out tanks. Another thing in question is the use of the DU SLAP round. I'm pretty sure they've been phased out by SLAP rounds with tungsten due to the radiation exposure the handler can get with use of these rounds. If you think those things aren't hot than you got another thing coming to you. I know a few guys that got radiation sickness from T72's that were hit by the DU rounds from the A-10's Avenger. Lastly, for those of you who do not know what a slap round is watch the video I posted. It basically is a SABOT round with a DU or Tungsten 7.62mm core.

[Minotaur 0]

I've read a about a few of the military applications of the heavy caliber sniping rifles often designated anti-materiel. Against Warsaw Pact armored vehicles which lacked night vision sights the .50 was used to "knock out" the infra red search lights mounted above the barrels of T-72 and T-80 Tanks and APCs.

The .50 was also used for detonating fuel barrels on enemy bases and disabling aircraft on the ground. There are several anti-materiel sniping rifles chambered for rounds much more destructive than the .50. Steyr manufactures the IWS2000 which is 15.2mm in caliber and fires Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot Tungsten Alloy Darts at a velocity of 4757 ft./sec supposedly penetrating 40mm of steel armor.

The Hungarian Military has a 14.5mm anti-material rifle rated to penetrate 25mm of steel armor. Personally I'd like to see one or both of these weapons added on to OPF instead of another .50 of any make or model.

[Sweeper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (shar @ Jan. 27 2002,18:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A .50 wouldn't do shit on a tank. Think about this, in IRL a 40mm shell would have trouble penetrating the front armour of a modern MBT, then how the hell can a 12.7mm do it?

And no.... There is nothing that says that you cant use the .50 against people, why is there then a .50 in the Abrams/on tripods then eh? For pot-shooting?<span id='postcolor'>

So this topic pops up again... WHO bumps???

Okay i don't want to read all this crap.

As i now comment here...

Armor is strongest in the front of a tank, so the morale is: Fire in the side or the rear in order to damage it...

50 on abrams is backup.... do you as a elite soldier go into battle without backup of a pistol??

[blaznee 0]

Hmmm, people here seem to know a little bit of this and a little bit of that.. I can't say I have the definite answers, but I can clear up a few things.

The Barrett .50 sniper rifle was made to counter lightly armored vehicles (and jeeps, trucks etc). Mainly APC kind of vehicles. And it WILL penetrate that armor. It will NEVER penetrate the front armor of a MBT but with a lucky shot you CAN disable a MBT by shooting off the threads, hitting right between the turret and main body etc.

The .50 caliber of a Desert Eagle handgun cannot really be compared the the .50 rifle rounds. Yes, they are the same thickness, but the rifly round is WAY bigger than what can fit in a handgun :-)

It's also true that you cannot use heavy rounds .50+ caliber against infantry in wartime, and it has nothing to do the size of the bullit or anything like that. It is a warcrime to shoot to kill, it is only allowed to shoot to disable! I'm not kidding here! The reason the heavy rounds are therefore illigal is because if such a bullit just passes by you it'll rip your arm off, and if you are actually hit you'll pretty much explode! So every shot with a heavy round against infantry is a shot with intend to kill, and that is a warcrime.

/Blaznee

[Guest Scooby]

No you wont explode if you do get hit with 12.7 round.

I mean this whole discussion if you are allowed to shoot people with 12.7 in war is idiotic. It does not matter with what you shoot them. No one could care less if you shoot someone with BMP-2s 30mm gun or with 7.62 round.

[FLYBOY4258 0]

What i said in my last message is true it will breech the hull of a T-72 but wont destroy. thats why us AM guys travel with the AT. AM will disable or get the tanks attention and then the AT will destroy .50 will go through the hull and i go in o combat with a Colt .45 and a side arm, just incase

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Scooby @ Mar. 20 2002,17:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No you wont explode if you do get hit with 12.7 round.

I mean this whole discussion if you are allowed to shoot people with 12.7 in war is idiotic. It does not matter with what you shoot them. No one could care less if you shoot someone with BMP-2s 30mm gun or with 7.62 round.<span id='postcolor'>

Unfortunately Scooby, the Geneva convention would disagree with you. As has been discussed in previous threads, .50 is classed as an AP round, and shooting infantry with AP rounds is a no-no.