About the US military in ArmA

[Architeuthis 9]

Where have you been? I'll give you a hint concerning the tank: latest Abrams.

Be more specific please, theres 20,000 Abrams models. Link, I only found King Homer's one and theres some discussion about the .pbo being locked or something. Is that the one?

I don't really know the specifics, but I think there was a disagreement between Homer and RHS. RHS took Homer's tank and tweaked down the armor values because they felt the tank was too invincible.

Something like that.

No, it was ORCS.

Arch.

[Ukraineboy 0]

Where have you been? I'll give you a hint concerning the tank: latest Abrams.

Be more specific please, theres 20,000 Abrams models. Link, I only found King Homer's one and theres some discussion about the .pbo being locked or something. Is that the one?

I don't really know the specifics, but I think there was a disagreement between Homer and *ORCs*. *ORCs* took Homer's tank and tweaked down the armor values because they felt the tank was too invincible.

Something like that.

EDIT:: Argg, my mistake about RHS ~= ORCs

Can you link me to this argument?

[CameronMcDonald 146]

There is no "argument," because ORCS members don't use this forum too often. Any transcript between them and INQ would probably be held by INQ himself.

[meyamoti 0]

Yeap,kinda sad that you can't even speak about their stuff unelss you go to their forums and then you have no idea what their sayin...ah well..

Though a ground rule I think is that addon makers unless authorized or so,should NOT tweak other peoples stuff unless explicitly given permission.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

That's a partially "unspoken" rule within the OFP community - that standalone addons (unless released in a mod with permission) are inviolate, unless (again) without permission from the author. It's a pity to see sometimes people take it into their own hands to do the wrong thing.

[Ukraineboy 0]

That's a partially "unspoken" rule within the OFP community - that standalone addons (unless released in a mod with permission) are inviolate, unless (again) without permission from the author. It's a pity to see sometimes people take it into their own hands to do the wrong thing.

Well unless they actually copywrited it then I don't see the problem. If you don't want people to edit your addons or use the, encrypt them (with can still be decrypted anyways) or just...don't release them. "unspoken" rules in some internet forum doesn't constitute anything. Especially if it wasn't released on OFP Forums, which I gather it wasnt since I can't find a thread.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

You'll find it was released just about everywhere, mate. You're not looking hard enough. Plus, not only being unspoken, there is always lines in the readme asking for users not to release the addon if it has been altered in any way, without the author's permission.

Man, did you even try? M1A2 by INQ

And a final thing - addon makers don't have a problem with alterations of their addons as long as they remain unreleased. ORCS however, transgressed this rule and hosted an altered version up on ofp.ru.

[Ukraineboy 0]

You'll find it was released just about everywhere, mate. You're not looking hard enough. Plus, not only being unspoken, there is always lines in the readme asking for users not to release the addon if it has been altered in any way, without the author's permission.

Man, did you even try? M1A2 by INQ

And a final thing - addon makers don't have a problem with alterations of their addons as long as they remain unreleased. ORCS however, transgressed this rule and hosted an altered version up on ofp.ru.

1.) Apparently you can't read. I mean't ORCS re-released version wasnt released on these forums. I saw King Homer's post, and it had nothing about the scandal. Plus its 5 pages back, even though I did find it

2.)I'm sorry but, there's no rule against re-releasing with modifications your own addon. No laws against it. If King Homer wants to release it, then anyone can do what they want with it unless he copywrites it or anything else that makes it legally his. He released it onto the internet and it became public domain.

3.) If ORCS made it better, then whats the problem? Its not the ORCS' fault that King Homer's model wasn't good enough for what they wanted to see. From what i know they changed the values, not the actual models. Thats not such a big scandal, its just balancing out the tank with other mods.

[Homefry 0]

This has what to do with Armed Assault exactly?

[Marco.A.Aguilar1 0]

Comeon guys, the Army and Air National Guard ain't that badly equiped. They are just a tad bit behind everyone else. We got the ACU around the same time the regular army got theirs. Remember guys, the U.S. National Guard is older than the U.S.A. and it is the only armed branch required by the U.S. constitution

http://www.ngb.army.mil/gallery/heritage/index.asp

(images in chronological order with desription)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard

(good information)

[meyamoti 0]

3.) If ORCS made it better, then whats the problem? Its not the ORCS' fault that King Homer's model wasn't good enough for what they wanted to see. From what i know they changed the values, not the actual models. Thats not such a big scandal, its just balancing out the tank with other mods.

Yeah but their T-80's with the armor and whatnot had pretty much 100% countermeasure effect,it turned any kind of missile into a useless projectile,oh well,don't like it,don't use it I guess.

Hmm...the National Guard in OFP rather than the higher...wait,I thought all those branches,the Missile Beuro,the Air National Guard and the National Guard made up the US Army? I could be wrong...okay yeah I think so,because there are things such as communications and whatnot involved.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Somebody hand me a frying pan to brain UkraineBoy with. I'm done trying to talk to that guy.

1) I can read quite well, mate - probably at least a metric ton better than you.

2) No need to apologise to me, it's no skin off my nose. I modified the tank quite heavily myself. All I'm saying is that ORCS violated not only the rule of not re-releasing an addon when the author has specifically stated it is not be re-released in any form without permission, but also the "mystical unspoken rule" of respect that community members should have for the addons that these members produce.

The difference between my modifications and ORCS' modification? I didn't release mine, and if I'd wanted to, I would have asked INQ myself first. Have you not grasped anything of what the mainstream OFP modding community stands for?

3) ORCS didn't make the addon "better." They changed one value - that of the armour. Rather than simply disseminate this altered version to its members in private, they hosted it up publicly, thus breaking the two rules explained in 2). They did this expressly because they were ticked off that the tank's values didn't match their own, and rather than explain this to INQ and have him release two versions, they took matters into their own hands. Quote from OFP.cz:

"King Homer informed me, that ORCS changed the M1A2 without the permission of the addonmakers, because they didn't like the valvues in the config. The stolen version should be available on a russian OFP site. Furthermore he asked me for say you, that you shouldn't download the stolen and changed version because it offends any copyright."

'Nuff said on this sad, and depressing case. Back to Armed Assault...

[Chunder 0]

remember this is 2012 we are speaking about.

CHRIST, for god sakes people

This game is not 2012, its not 2008, its not anything. ITS TODAY, ITS MODERN DAY. 2006!

This has been said 50 times already.

And I guess you should be real happy that when the game is released, it becomes un-modern day and 'un-real' in a shortish amount of time because constantly changing military doctrine.

BIS are getting away from Past conflicts and more into semi-realistic scenarios in the near future.

What has been said plenty of times is that they, BIS have to strike an even keel between beleivability, enjoyability, and diversity, something that isn't going ot win all the people all the time.

Oh, and one other thing, don't use the pistols animation, I don't like being associated with such extremism and find it offensive. Also, don't use religeous connotations in your text, it offends others.

[nyles 11]

Quote[/b] ]This has what to do with Armed Assault exactly?

Quote[/b] ]Somebody hand me a frying pan to brain UkraineBoy with. I'm done trying to talk to that guy.

Quote[/b] ]'Nuff said on this sad, and depressing case. Back to Armed Assault...

Yes, please end the off-topic debates. Thank you.

Marco, are really all units of the ANG equiped with the latest or are there still some units that use outdated equipment like the basic M1 tank, M113 APCs, M163 Vulcans for air defense and the like?

Personally, like stated above, I think that some ill-equiped US force wouldn't really work that well on Sahari, anyway. The problem just is that on those images shown to us till now, it could be interpreted from the unit-list that the US forces are indeed using some older vehicles, too, which shouldn't really be in service with units abroad. That's why I think getting the unit list straightened somewhat might be a good idea as to prevent weird unit combinations that might not be a problem for the common player, but definitetly will cause some irritation amongst those of us, who either have a military background or are at least slightly into the topic. I think that the latter group shouldn't be underestimated and makes up a large portion of the entire flashpoint community. Some few years ago I might have agreed that gamers with some decent military background knowledge are a minority but that kind of knowledge is spreading very fast and even though there are still only few people who know details, the mouth-to-mouth talk about stuff like that is very very large. Everybody knows some half-truth about something in the military and usually even those fragments of knowledge are enough for many players to judge, if something is represented accurately and in an authentic way or not. So my advice is not to underestimate the common player in this area.

About what Seal84 said earlier in this thread about the G36. It could be that the southern Sahari forces are being issued with the G36 as their new service rifle right away, so this could maybe explain, why it is included. I just hope I don't have to see any US soldiers equiped with Steyr Aug or G36 like in Codemaster's Red Hammer expansion.

[Ukraineboy 0]

Somebody hand me a frying pan to brain UkraineBoy with. I'm done trying to talk to that guy.

Im done with you too, so I'll say one more thing. What rule?

There's no law, no rules, no nothing on it, so too bad. Oh Im sorry, the unwritten rule on some internet forum is legally binding

[GBee 0]

There's no law, no rules, no nothing on it, so too bad. Oh Im sorry, the unwritten rule on some internet forum is legally binding

Copyright law was violated.

You said

Quote[/b] ]Well unless they actually copywrited it

Everything is automatically copyrighted at the point of creation. You don't opt in to copyright, rather you opt out and in this case the addon maker did not surrender his rights.

Anyone can modify something which remains under copyright for their own use, but they cannot lawfully redistribute it.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Thank you.

[Marco.A.Aguilar1 0]

Nyles:

Alot of people get the idea that the National Guard is some kind of lasted picked kid. They are just as important the the Air Force or Army. We get a lot of guys who used to be Airmen, Soldiers, Sailors and Marines. They go through a transition to become Guardsmen. The first Styker Brigade team for the National Guard was formed way back in 2004. We got the 19th Special Forces HQ in Utah and the 20th in Alabama. Many people still think that they don't have one. We have M1A2, Strykers, and so on. We also get the latest weapons as well. We are funded by the federal government and the state. We got two jobs. After the war on terrorism got start, many people saw a change in the both the Air and Army NG. The whole "1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year" and "weekend warrior" crap was scrapped. This new war has us on alert 24/7 due to homeland security and abroad. The Guard has fought in more wars then the regular army and reserves have.