Stealth Play

[chris330 0]

Dear All,

This will not be an outrgaeous request made without any consideration being taken into account of the complexities behind these things (I'm not suggesting others are guilty of this either). Most of the guys who are still using this forum I would imagine are at present (before the Armed Assault flood arrives) people who have in some way or another had a hell of alot to do with Flashpoint, be it either through script building or addon building or both. Makes for a really nice atmosphere.

That said however I must ask will there be more of an element of stealth play involved with this new game than Flashpoint? It has not gone unnoticed by me that there was a considerable amount of stealth play in Flashpoint but it was not too reliable when very close to other units. Also enemy AI could see far too well in the pitch black I think (and I mean without nightsight goggles).

I know it would be an awful lot to ask to have something like this included but I must ask will we see anything getting a bit closer to the kind of stealth play we saw in the Thief series in Armed Assault? It would make for some incredibly diverse and unbelievably spoilt for choice of tactics gameplay. That included with superb AI routing abilities in close quarters would -when mixed with Flashpoint's wide open space abilities- make I think, the ultimate game.

It's been burning away and I had to ask

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]closer to the kind of stealth play we saw in the Thief series in Armed Assault?

Hitman, MGS, Splinter Cell etc. That kind of realistic stealth (not that the game should only be about sneaking around, I mean more of the realistic behaviour of the AI).

[chris330 0]

Quote[/b] ]closer to the kind of stealth play we saw in the Thief series in Armed Assault?

Hitman, MGS, Splinter Cell etc. That kind of realistic stealth (not that the game should only be about sneaking around, I mean more of the realistic behaviour of the AI).

I see, so that means something along those lines is included?

[Victor_S. 0]

Armed assault if going to be mostly like ofp in terms of the type of game play you will be seeing. Which means it will not be much diffrent when it comes to stealth. On the other hand the latest interview for armed assault said that the AI will do a bit better in close combat so it might be an improvement for stealth.

[chris330 0]

Armed assault if going to be mostly like ofp in terms of the type of game play you will be seeing.  Which means it will not be much diffrent when it comes to stealth.  On the other hand the latest interview for armed assault said that the AI will do a bit better in close combat so it might be an improvement for stealth.

Let's hope so, it would really improve things. Maybe Armed Assault will offer users the ability to code realistic stealth play into the game themselves with scripts? I wonder if there will be a way, or more likely as in OFP 'a workaround' to detect shadow postions?

[.COMmunist 0]

One thing that bothered me in OFP was inability to ambush with armor. If my tank sits "quietly" behind the bush, the other tank will see it on its radar no matter what. I real life its not that simple. Those camoflaged vehicles serve a purpose. They are not so visible, king of stealth, so it would be great if in upcoming game this sort of thing would be possible.

[NeMeSiS 11]

One thing that bothered me in OFP was inability to ambush with armor. If my tank sits "quietly" behind the bush, the other tank will see it on its radar no matter what. I real life its not that simple. Those camoflaged vehicles serve a purpose. They are not so visible, king of stealth, so it would be great if in upcoming game this sort of thing would be possible.

Turn of your engines...

Oh, and the ground does block the radar, too bad objects dont..

[nubbin77 0]

Has anyone ever tried removing the radar properties of armor / vehicles and seeing if that improves gameplay?

[Heatseeker 0]

Splinter Cell is a fun concept with nice graphics but its stealth component would be out of place in Armed Assault, its too fake/rubish/unrealistic.

But this can lead to good discussion about a important aspect of the game. A.i. detection capability. In OPF they will detect the enemy no matter what. For example a russian tank will detect and atack a US soldier who is driving a civilian or russian vehical from great distance, another example, a PK machinegunner will atack a civilian plane piloted by a west unit with no realistic means of knowing who is inside, etc.

Im not expecting a whole new a.i. for Armed Assault but if its detection capability could be improved into a more realistic one it would really add to more gameplay/mission possibilities.

Easy to post, hard to program taking into acount "all" that is part of this game problably but always worth discussing imo .

[.COMmunist 0]

Turning engine off only solves half of the problem. AI will still spot "unknown tank". That's not very stealthy ether. In real situation you can only give away your position when you fire or move. That's what I am talking about. And I am so agreed with Heatseeker about AI bs ability to magicaly see the enemy behind the neutral vehicle 200 -300 yds away. I wish that could be addressed too in the new game.

[Chunder 0]

my main problem with stealth was it's more or less unrealistic implementation in some missions in CWC and indeed operation flashpoint: resistance.

Sensitive materials,equipment and people are kept at secure bases. Often with a reasonable system of area denial weapons such as a.p mines (banned by geneva convention but never the less still used by some countries). These days trip systems, lasers, motion detectors and body heat detectors are some optional sensors installed on important locations Failing that, razor wire in really inconvenient places - we didn't really have that. In Opfp, you could theoretically charge in anywhere without having to worry about this, only about the enemy spotting you. I'm sure the danger of a mine field would make people slow down. In Iraq and stuff of course, Improvised Explosive devices - or booby traps are very popular in modern warfare.

So in some areas to me, 'stealth' in operation flaspoint are a bit lacking, Fun, don't get me wrong a bit limited though. even though the missions that have come out are tough.

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]These days trip systems, lasers, motion detectors and body heat detectors are some optional sensors installed on important locations Failing that, razor wire in really inconvenient places - we didn't really have that. In Opfp, you could theoretically charge in anywhere without having to worry about this

OFP didn't take place in ''these days'', but in 1982 and 1985.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Quote[/b] ]These days trip systems, lasers, motion detectors and body heat detectors are some optional sensors installed on important locations Failing that, razor wire in really inconvenient places - we didn't really have that. In Opfp, you could theoretically charge in anywhere without having to worry about this

OFP didn't take place in ''these days'', but in 1982 and 1985.

Indeed, combat was very different 20 years ago.

However, if it were up to me, I wouldn't mind seeing some cool Splinter Cell style knife attacks. There are plenty of cool things in Splinter Cell, but would the majority of them work in OFP/ArmA? No.

[.COMmunist 0]

I'll tell you what the Russians definately had in "those days". MG nests surrounded any of the important military installations. If the area was in the woods (like those bases you see on Kolguev island), there were large signs with numbers placed on the trees. MG gunners would sight in the area by those numbers (usually distance to that tree in meters from the MG nest). If anybody come even close to those trees, they would be shreded to pieces immediately. Mine fields were common too, as long as you mark the area with appropriate signs. Trip wires with flares were everywhere. So, I don't know what are you talking about when you say "OFP didn't take place in ''these days'', but in 1982 and 1985."

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'll tell you what the Russians definately had in "those days". MG nests surrounded any of the important military installations. If the area was in the woods (like those bases you see on Kolguev island), there were large signs with numbers placed on the trees. MG gunners would sight in the area by those numbers (usually distance to that tree in meters from the MG nest). If anybody come even close to those trees, they would be shreded to pieces immediately. Mine fields were common too, as long as you mark the area with appropriate signs. Trip wires with flares were everywhere. So, I don't know what are you talking about when you say "OFP didn't take place in ''these days'', but in 1982 and 1985."

Russians also drank a lot of vodka too, but does every detail need to be in the game?

[chris330 0]

However, if it were up to me, I wouldn't mind seeing some cool Splinter Cell style knife attacks.    There are plenty of cool things in Splinter Cell, but would the majority of them work in OFP/ArmA? No.

Don't be so sure. I'm pretty positive that with good and well beaten out code this would work

[Big Dawg KS 6]

However, if it were up to me, I wouldn't mind seeing some cool Splinter Cell style knife attacks.    There are plenty of cool things in Splinter Cell, but would the majority of them work in OFP/ArmA? No.

Don't be so sure. I'm pretty positive that with good and well beaten out code this would work

No, it wouldn't, the game engine for Splinter Cell is completely different from the one in ArmA. It wouldn't be possible without significantly changing the engine and some of the important elements of the OFP/ArmA engine would be lost.

[chris330 0]

No, it wouldn't, the game engine for Splinter Cell is completely different from the one in ArmA. It wouldn't be possible without significantly changing the engine and some of the important elements of the OFP/ArmA engine would be lost.

Apologies. I thought you meant only the knife attack parts and the ability to sneak up on other guys. Yes I agree the rest would not work. I've played two of the three Splinter Cell releases and they are considerably more advanced in close quarters than flashpoint.

[NeMeSiS 11]

No, it wouldn't, the game engine for Splinter Cell is completely different from the one in ArmA. It wouldn't be possible without significantly changing the engine and some of the important elements of the OFP/ArmA engine would be lost.

Apologies. I thought you meant only the knife attack parts and the ability to sneak up on other guys. Yes I agree the rest would not work. I've played two of the three Splinter Cell releases and they are considerably more advanced in close quarters than flashpoint.

But there are no large areas at all, maybe someones garden but thats it! I think that i prefer the OFP maps...

(Now, it is possible already to create some nice CQB environments, but the problem is that the AI doesnt understand them, or you get stuck, etc)

But with some config.cpp tweaking it is already possible to get rid of the sometimes "psychic" AI

[thrush213 0]

never liked the stealth missions...never liked the nightvision googles either.

full blown battles are the best...and the occational small squad assaults.

those invasion missions have yet to be beaten by any other games

[Chunder 0]

Quote[/b] ]These days trip systems, lasers, motion detectors and body heat detectors are some optional sensors installed on important locations Failing that, razor wire in really inconvenient places - we didn't really have that. In Opfp, you could theoretically charge in anywhere without having to worry about this

OFP didn't take place in ''these days'', but in 1982 and 1985.

Indeed, combat was very different 20 years ago.

However, if it were up to me, I wouldn't mind seeing some cool Splinter Cell style knife attacks. There are plenty of cool things in Splinter Cell, but would the majority of them work in OFP/ArmA? No.

Motion and heat detectors have been around since the Vietnam War.

Trip Mechanisms have been around since pretty much the dawn of war, whether it be a string attached to something or otherwise. Heck, electronic trip mechanisms have been in your local conveniance door since the early 80's! Even a A-P mine is a trip mechanism - although banned by the geneva convention.

They certainly have been around sensitive places for a very long time, not to mention copious floodlighting!

[Lightspeed 0]

ghost recon had a good method to create stealth against AI.  if you hug thick bushes (large or small) so that you're basically concealed within it, then the AI cant spot you until their within several metres of you.

this enables a player to move from cover to cover to a target without giving away his position.  if the Devs could add some sort of invisibility factor to certain bushes/objects when a player is next to them, or even long grass, then it would create the stealth you're looking for.

to say that stealth isnt part of OFP is rubbish - if this is supposed to be the best MilSim to date, then stealth does have a role in Military Ops.

[NSX 8]

@Kyle Sarnik

Well ,mate,I'm russian but I seems not to drink any alchol at all.There're not too less such kind of people,so think twice before saying something like this please.

About stealth.Stealh missions we saw in OFP are going to be quite realistic.Just some addings like knifes for at least officers and SF would be very nice.

[chris330 0]

ghost recon had a good method to create stealth against AI.  if you hug thick bushes (large or small) so that you're basically concealed within it, then the AI cant spot you until their within several metres of you.

this enables a player to move from cover to cover to a target without giving away his position.  if the Devs could add some sort of invisibility factor to certain bushes/objects when a player is next to them, or even long grass, then it would create the stealth you're looking for.

to say that stealth isnt part of OFP is rubbish - if this is supposed to be the best MilSim to date, then stealth does have a role in Military Ops.

I agree completely. Also I like the sound of that bush idea. I think really with Flashpoint and its successors we have the potential platform to create any kind of game we want really. Some people can see that, and some can't.

This is why I was thinking in particular of being able to make Thief type missions which would be incredibly good using this game given how large the environments are. There isn't anything tremendously clever about Thief (other than the shadow aspect) except perhaps for the rope arrows and the ability to jump. However Thief as a stealth game works incredibly well, especially given that it was really the first game ever to implement it.

Can you imagine how exciting it would be to have to infiltrate a village unarmed, yet with a radio and some hand-to-hand combat skills, and then have to get the local population to divulge information about a nearby mansion/military installation/castle/whatever without giving yourself away as an imposter. And then you have to break into the place (at a time of your choosing) using the info gathered to help you, and then perform an escape using a method of your choice?

It's thoughts like these that really make me want to find a way to implement very good close quarter stealth play into the game. If it doesn't come supplied, I would sure like to find a way to simulate it

[Lightspeed 0]

a soldier infiltrating a village unarmed? thats a bit of a stretch.

carrying a silenced cqb weapon...npz.

how 'bout infiltrating carrying a sd-mp5 and some demo charges to destroy a comm station or ammo supplies dump using long grass, bushes, boxes, etc to penetrate.

some tangoes, armoured support are present and will kill on sight. the rest of your team is hidden in the nearby hill ready to engage if necessary.

now you're talking.