Character Ragdoll and more

[NeMeSiS 11]

for me an indie product going mainstream is the ultimate compliment to its designers - it means that they have made something excellent, something that has something very everyone as well as its core audience

besides the more success that Arma has - the better Game 2 will be - greater success and larger finance is the lifeblod of any venture

But the thing is, to please the masses it has to become more scripted/easy/better looking/able to kill 300000 enemies in 10 minutes/etc, and you have to agree that OFP will never ever be like that, and if ArmA would be like that then it is not a next version of OFP, but just another game like battlefield/CoD/etc

[-kelet0r 0]

for me an indie product going mainstream is the ultimate compliment to its designers - it means that they have made something excellent, something that has something very everyone as well as its core audience

besides the more success that Arma has - the better Game 2 will be - greater success and larger finance is the lifeblod of any venture

But the thing is, to please the masses it has to become more scripted/easy/better looking/able to kill 300000 enemies in 10 minutes/etc, and you have to agree that OFP will never ever be like that, and if ArmA would be like that then it is not a next version of OFP, but just another game like battlefield/CoD/etc

lol

do you consider all successful indie/rock music bands that started on the bar circuit too mainstream or gave in to the demands of the mainstream

[NeMeSiS 11]

for me an indie product going mainstream is the ultimate compliment to its designers - it means that they have made something excellent, something that has something very everyone as well as its core audience

besides the more success that Arma has - the better Game 2 will be - greater success and larger finance is the lifeblod of any venture

But the thing is, to please the masses it has to become more scripted/easy/better looking/able to kill 300000 enemies in 10 minutes/etc, and you have to agree that OFP will never ever be like that, and if ArmA would be like that then it is not a next version of OFP, but just another game like battlefield/CoD/etc

lol

do you consider all successful indie/rock music bands that started on the bar circuit too mainstream or gave in to the demands of the mainstream

Actually i do, but everyone says that i have a weird music taste so lets talk about something else...

And the thing is, you can never, ever mix CoD with OFP, not with scalable options, they are just too different. CoD is all about a movie-like experience, while OFP is the opposite, just raw, unscripted and too slow/actionless for alot of people. And if those people want to play something like CoD then they can buy almost every game out there, OFP is different, and 99,9% of the people here dont want to lose it.

[max power 21]

ofpforum, you're defending ofp like it would evapourate under the spotlight. I would ask you to recall the fact that OFP won a number of awards and is well recognized. OFP is a 'hardcore' game, not a secret game, and has provided codemasters and BIS with substancial revenue.

I think that your argument is a little bit of a slippery slope. If ArmA is a popular game, it will necessitate changes that make it like popcorn shooters? BIS already said that they would try to fix the physics and clipping problems. If this improves CQB performance, that might bring in more average gamers all on its own- but I would hardly say that this is evidence that we are straddling some sort of precipice of FPS mediocrity.

[-kelet0r 0]

agreed - operation flashpoint was a very successful game and is still topping the charts in most good computer reviews/magazines

its niche will always mean that hardcore realism is what we will get and thats what i want as much as the next man

But Operation Flashpoint was very flawed and still is - the changes that people like myself want are to bring Arma on a par with the QUALITY of modern shooters like COD/HL2/BF2 while maintaining and improving substantially on its own unique gameplay

[NeMeSiS 11]

ofpforum, you're defending ofp like it would evapourate under the spotlight.  I would ask you to recall the fact that OFP won a number of awards and is well recognized.  OFP is a 'hardcore' game, not a secret game, and has provided codemasters and BIS with substancial revenue.

I think that your argument is a little bit of a slippery slope.  If ArmA is a popular game, it will necessitate changes that make it like popcorn shooters?  BIS already said that they would try to fix the physics and clipping problems.  If this improves CQB performance, that might bring in more average gamers all on its own- but I would hardly say that this is evidence that we are straddling some sort of precipice of FPS mediocrity.

Dont forget that everything changed (grown) ALOT in the 5 years since OFP was released. The market is more or less dominated what the "casual gamer wants". And believe me, most of them dont want to invest time in games, and they dont care about "engine limits", they just want to shoot/play football/tennis/cast spells/slash people over and over and over and over again. why do you think that EA can get away with some few changes on every FIFA game? every year it looks better, and there are a few minimal changes, but it stays the same, and people keep buying it. People also play dust on CS again and again and again. There are no real changes between CoD and CoD2. Hell, ive been on a CoD forum for some time and there are alot of people who dont like bigger maps because they dont run into an enemy every 5-10 seconds.

Is that bad? No, it is not, it is someones opinion, you agree with it or you dont. The thing is that the opinion of alot (the majority) of the gamers is that games are for "quick fun", and there are only very few developers that make what they want, instead of making what people buy. Why do you think that there are so few original games? Because developers dont want to experiment, when MOHAA came out and it sold well every was like "OH, apparently they want WW2 games", and a flood of WW2 games followed", same happened with vietnam games, and yes, most of them sold well, and yes, most of them looked alot like eachother (in terms of gameplay, not graphics).

Seriously, it is hard to explain what is so cool about OFP to a sceptic, because the argument "I really felt the adrenaline after setting up an ambush and wait for 20 minutes for the convoy to arrive" or "I walk around the enemy base for 30 minutes and climbed a mountain so i could snipe them before i called in air support" doesnt attract them. It scares them off, because does it sound like fun? well, not really, wich makes the game hard to sell, and it makes you think a few times before you try it.

The point being: by giving OFP great physics/CQB/whatever does not make it attractive to people who dont like sims, and alot of people dont.

Even though the market grew alot, most of those people (75%, just a guess), like what is said above, and nothing is going to change that, its just a matter of taste. (also, alot of the "new" gamers are young, while the OFP community isnt dominated by young people who keep screaming LOL OMFG I WTF TEH ENIGNE LMIIT!  

EDIT: Oh, and i do think that games who are made in the way that developer wants, instead of what "The majority" wants are so scarce that they do evaporate under a spotlight, while there is a sea of games are made for just the money. (Well, everyone does it for money ofcourse, just what do you want to sacrifice for it?)

Why are all my bigger posts always so chaotic with bits of readable stuff everywhere? i should organise things a bit instead of typing everything that comes into my mind and then CTRL+Xing it around in the screen.  

EDIT: This post might be unreadable, its 0200 and im sleepy, dont look weird if ive used some terms too much, im tired and my english is far from perfect.  

(Oh, and ive never typed so much! new record! )

[JdB 151]

Nice post, explains the situation in the current game industry quite well.

[codarl 1]

OFPForum, John and I are proud of you, son .

reminds me about that time I asked a COD2 player what engine improvements there were, besides from the graphical ones...

"ain't the graphics the engine?"

Since that day, I have sworn to make a program that lets you impale people over the internet .

Either way, about this discussion: If the developers focus on informing the community on the technology behind their game (like this people will value the things that matter: the fact that what they see is a unscripted miracle, wich might be Ë as intense as when it would be scripted, but will most likely never happen again.

The fact that allot in OFP is a one-time-experience really sucked me in, and I wont give an example, because I'm tired, and off to play with myself for a chang- I mean, go to bed.

good night .

[max power 21]

Haha, what do you think ArmA is?

Looks like the FIFA franchise to me.

This doesn't have anything to do with my post, though.

[ziiip 1]

Did you read that Nvidia and Havok made an agreement, there will be a program that will allow Nvidia VGAs do the physics calucaltions. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt that mean ragdoll will no longer affect(or just a bit) the gameplay?

[Dwarden 1125]

Did you read that Nvidia and Havok made an agreement, there will be a program that will allow Nvidia VGAs do the physics calucaltions. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt that mean ragdoll will no longer affect(or just a bit) the gameplay?

that is just PR buff , HavokFX supports both ATI and NVIDIA cards with SM3.0 and higher ... (about ATI and Havok is like half year old news) ...

anyway the problem with this solution is that developer must buy LICENCE of HavokFX and that's not cheap ...

now there is Ageia PhysX PPU standalone board coming to market too (with 100 titles supporting it thru 2006-2007, as key supporter i see Epic with Unreal Engine 3 and 4) ...

anyway ... BIS stated some months ago they use ODE (open source physical engine) for Game 2 project ... it's unlikely to happen it will be used in Armed Assault (maybe yes but in limited form) ...

using ODE could allow to utilize both GPU/PPU as it become possible ..

[thrush213 0]

i'd like it just so the characters don't look like they're freaking bread patties.

when you die, your body goes limp, it doesn't stiffen up into a rock and sit on top of a hill.

rag doll all the way. and if frame rate's an issue. just make it the most basic ragdoll. atleast it wouldn't look stupid

[max power 21]

Although that I think that a lot of members on this board would disagree with you out of hand.... I think that simple ragdolls blended carefully with some death animations would be very good!