Melee Weapons?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

The engine got some limitations. Sure it would be possible to include bayonets but it wouldnt work well. Why? The AI is designed for long range combat and would have to be changed quite a bit. I rather wait 'till OFP2.

[Cage 0]

Melee weapons?

If those will appear in Armed Assault, the range for creation of missions will essentially extend, that undoubtedly is greater plus.

[vektorboson 8]

The engine got some limitations. Sure it would be possible to include bayonets but it wouldnt work well. Why? The AI is designed for long range combat and would have to be changed quite a bit.

What engine are you talking about? The ArmA-engine? How would you know which limitations that engine has? Did you already playtest it?

Better support for hand-to-hand combat would be a welcome addition, it would rise the number of possible scenarios and new weapons/units.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

The engine got some limitations. Sure it would be possible to include bayonets but it wouldnt work well. Why? The AI is designed for long range combat and would have to be changed quite a bit.

What engine are you talking about? The ArmA-engine? How would you know which limitations that engine has? Did you already playtest it?

Better support for hand-to-hand combat would be a welcome addition, it would rise the number of possible scenarios and new weapons/units.

No, I havent playtested the Arms engine. But I've played Ofp since 2001 and I understand the engine quite good. Or to be more specific; the AI.

The Armed Assault engine isnt a new one. It's an improved version of the VBS1 engine. Since there are no official bayonets in VBS1 Im sure that it wont be in Arms and Im also sure that it wont work. Sure, the AI will be improved. But I dont think they'll be able to use close combat weapons in an efficent way.

Just imo, of course.

And I still don't understand what bayonets could be good for.

[Radnik 18]

... in my opinion, i think we do not need these kind off game elements,

there are so many others to be improved and added ...

[DBR_ONIX 0]

someone knowes those "conflict: desert strike" 1 + 2 games.

ok ok - that are games, not a serious simulation. but they have some real nice animated stealth kills with knifes!

In CDS1 I got.. one knife kill, and thats only because it was completely set up (Random guy standing in dried riverbed, with cliffs to either side, standing doing nothing..)

The other stealth kill I got was with, erm, either an MP5 or a M249, shot someone miles away..

Not played CDS2 much, just one or two levels at freinds house

ArmA is aparently a testbed for stuff BI can do with Game2. it'd be nice to see knifes, but we'll see what we get

- Ben

[gandalf the white 0]

... in my opinion, i think we do not need these kind off game elements,

there are so many others to be improved and added ...

OFP is a war simulator, it was the first to aim at combined arms caonflicts over long distances... but base-infiltration is also on the agenda, and so is house-clearing .

and since the colesion detection got a patch up, this will be even more fun...

[shinRaiden 0]

Now-now, let's back up a couple logical steps... there's three basic methods presently implmented to negatively affect a given object's dammage property, in a hypothetically mathematical fashion.

1) create a vector originating at a given object, then check the length of that vector for any collisions. Detect if the collision is an object with a dammagable flag, then calc a value difference.

2) check to see if an object's collision space collides with another object's collision space. This is done ordinarily in the macro-object sense. If multiple objects collision boxes overlap, calculate an appropiate dammage.

3) check to see if a dammageable object is positioned within an area of coords defined as a "killbox". If so, decrease the dammage property as appropiate.

What we're after here is a variation in the micro-selection sense of form 2. We need a variable user-controlled supplementary collision box for the "weapon" object, and need to calculate intercepts for smaller selections we'll call "head", "kidneys", "groin", "shins" (for the wusses), and other items of relevance. You'd need to detect collision-space violations between the "weapon" object and specific "victim" object selections.

Complicating that are the effects involved. Your basic effects are blunt smashing, sharp poking, and slicing and dicing. However, they are not mutually exclusive in all cases. Furthermore, the method in which the auxilary object is utilized can influence the appropiate dammage model, in addition to the power level.

Take for example the common garden shovel. Used in a thrusting manner, it's a blunt object until sufficent force over a resistence level becomes a poking object. Used in a lateral sweeping motion, or in a vertical chopping fashion, it is either a blunt object or a slicing object, depending on the blade orientation. If the shovel is rotated end-for-end, it can be an effective parrying object as well, though the grip becomes somewhat more unwieldy. All methods of usage however, are equally effective in obliterating the pesky annoying nettles that BIS delights in torturing us with in the ArmAs screenshots. The first addon for ArmA I plan to look at making is an Agent Orange addon, the stinging nettles out back of the house here are now between 1 to 3 meters tall. Who ever thought to put them in is one sick puppy.

[*actionhank* 1]

If they keep the AI anything like it is now, you're chances of sneaking up on an enemy soldier with a knife, are about as good as your chances of not being shot from 4000 yards away

[Reclus3 0]

I think someone already said something like this, but I also would hate to play a game where 2 people run around each other, waving a knife in the air hoping they get that fatal paper cut move across the enemies flack jacket for the win.

Its just plain silly to even think about that in a game of this calibur.

The only way I could see pulling this off realistically would to have the different type of soldiers have a skill base that they excel at while others may lack in that department. You cant take any old joe in the military and ask him to sneak up on a another person and slit his throat, they have to have some skill in that department for it to happen.

But i dont forsee them adding a skill base like that to the game, atleast I have not heard rumor of it or anything, So I honestly dont see a reason for adding melee to the game.

In all honesty if the game plays exactly like OFP did without a single change in the game except for physics I will be happy.

[kissdznuts 0]

Will there be any Melee weapons in Armed Assault?! Such as Hammers, Knifes, Bayonets

Knifes and bayonets I can understand, but hammers? LOL. That would probably be the most humiliating way to die ever.

[kavoven 4]

Knives aren't really needed for ArmA itself, except it would support something like Splinter Cell.

But I would we so happy if we will have knive support, because than we could make swords and RPGs.... *dreaming*

[bigsouth1981 0]

I think it would be a great idea to implement a bayonet, and or fighting knife into AA. As an Infantryman in real life, id love to see some ultra realism regarding these weapons.

In real life you are totally in a world of shit if you have to "fix" bayonets, unless you are in the final stages of clearing a position. Thats why the other day I suggested it would be a good idea to introduce a short throw into the game, ie: so that you could "post" a grenade for example through the firing slot of a bunker or through a window etc etc etc...

Like I said the bayonet Is usually a last resort, and Im glad that a lot of you on here recognise that. People wouldnt be able to do the crappy counterstrike "spin around in a circle, slashing away" thing because of the fact that flashpoint accuratley represents modern day combat to a good level, with ballistics and all. Besides, just think how close you would have to actually be!!!, you can sucessfully engage targets at around 400m with small arms, so it would be ultra special to achieve a melee kill. Being able to smash someone across the head with your rifle butt would do nicely too.

[funnyguy1 0]

Besides, just think how close you would have to actually be!!!, you can sucessfully engage targets at around 400m with small arms, so it would be ultra special to achieve a melee kill.

Not exaclty the truth..well, not in 100%.

I remember some cwc missions when doing some black op stuff, I could approach ruskies really close.

The problem was, when I finally got rid of my mp5sd, I had to do it loud...but, yeah, it was old good cwc 1.2

We have to separate two things from each other.

melee weapons in sp, could be a nice adition, you won`t run around with knives, or...well, it`s your choice...

I really don`t think that It would be neccesary, but maybe I`ll appreciate this when the shovel or something save my life

and when it comes to mp...I think nobody will act like cs-idiot...battlefields are way to big to perform a kill with a knife...so those punks won`t be doing this.

anyway It might be up the server admin.

[TokarevT33 0]

they said that it was gonna be little bit like it right?!

Never heard of it. If so, it must have been OFPxbox, not ArmA. And they must have meant that the view is going to be fixed like in most fps games.

CS influencing BIS...    

What??? No please no!!! I want to see my shoulders..my arms.. i dont want to be just a floating hand

Where did you read this?

[stevevcb 3]

Some form of melee would be a good addition, be it a bayonet, a knife, or a rifle butt to the face. Running out of rounds sucks, so having something there as a last resort would be great in my opinion. No throwing knives into people's eyes, no doing poncy action-hero throat-slices with a knife bigger than god's mum, no kung fu tiger-stance flying kicks. Just the ability to put up a fight.

People are harping on about how unrealistic it is. Well, OFP being OFP, when you fire your last round and end up rushing someone and trying to club him with your rifle, nine times out of ten you're going to die. That one time out of ten you take him down and snatch his weapon, nine times out of ten the guys stood ten metres either side are going to notice and waste you.

Seems pretty realistic to me.

[bigsouth1981 0]

Good post Kooky,

Your right it would be great knowing that no matter how slim the chance, you still have some sort of a last resort. In Iraq we had all sorts, fighting knives, kubotans, knuckle dusters. Personally I have a Fairburn and Sykes Fighting knife. Now im not saying that you should be able to pick up a housebrick and whack someone skull in with it (although its not a bad idea....lol), or be able to throw ninja stars etc etc

But some thing sensible to the point of being realistic.

One thing I must mention. All you dudes on here are cool, there is never any arguing, flaming, just good old war talk. It makes a nice change.

Rock on...............

Andy

[D.murphy man 0]

One thing I must mention. All you dudes on here are cool, there is never any arguing, flaming, just good old war talk. It makes a nice change.

Yep these forums are one of the best (and one of the first) ive ever been part of. Every one here is pretty well spoken and can take other opinions and disagree with out the usuall "OMFGZ U SUX U LAME PEAICE OF SH*T EVERY ONE SAY NO TO MEEEELLEE33 W4EP0NZZ" like what would happen on say the planet halflife 2 forums and most of its down to the mods ruleing with there fair but iron fists

but back on topic, yea i wouldnt mind seeing some form of meelee weapon weather it be a knife or baynot or maybe a wide variety of house hold objects youd find in a abonded war torn town (house brick or hammer any one? ) and as for realism.. if ArAs is going to be like OFP then i cant see people getting close enough or being able to run circles around each other for long enough to become a CS match. Since in CS it takes a few bullets to kill some one and the maps are very small, in OFP we got wide open spaces and one bullet is enough to take down any pesky CS kids trying to knife people, like kooky said. You cant just run across a field with your knife in your hand and not expect your head to get blown of by a AK47 before you can even get with in distance to shout verbal abuse at the enemy. Especially if theres tanks rolling around and helicopters and god knows what, so yea a knife would be perfect as a 'last resort'

[doc stahlhelm 1]

the programmers can make a whole bunch of melee weapons possible - the nature of ofp/arma make it impossible for an stupid cs-kid to have fun with this game or better simulation.

so i think its a good compromise to add some meleeweapons like knifes to a cool specop mission in the game an bajonetts to a "deep in da shit" mission for SP. for mp meleeweapons can be locked on the server by an admin. so the owner of the server can do the choice melee or not.

whats about a limited jump-funktion for jumping over obstacles??

sometimes i play CoD-UO, mostly the germanfront mod.

in CoD they limited the jump capacity to avoid bunnyhoppin.

you can make a jump over an obstacle, but if you try bunnyhoppin the player is only able to make some real small and useless hops.that real works,there are much less bunnys like in MoHAA or the BF-series.

i know jumping features are a kind of tabu in ofp, but in reality i can jump over obstacles so why dont make it possible in armed assault - limited and without the possibility for bunnyhopping?

what you think about?

greetings, vonStahlhelm

[FCOPZ-illuminator 0]

Yeah, a knife ( or bajonetts ) would be realy nice  

The possibility to jump ? *hmpf* I dont know, it's a risk....

But you can the jump possibility "merge" or associate with the old ofp function, if you longer run, you have to breathe... ( it's the right word ? *gg* )

So, maybe you can jump 3 or 4 times, then you have to wait few seconds..... (?)  

[doc stahlhelm 1]

yes, talking about jumping in armed assault is a kind of sacrileg - a real provocation. but i think ofp's the most realistic war "game"

ever made and its successors will be maybe much more realistic.

so in fact in reality i can peek around corners, i can roll into cover wile in prone position, i can use meleeweapons if its necessary and i can jump over obstacles. but what i cant do in reality is make is jumping around like a bunny. i know that a jump feature is a risk in every game, so it must be limited. i just test the mod "german front" for "call of duty - united offence" - jumping there is only usefull for jumping over obstacles because the landing slows down the running speed for an moment, especially when you try to bunnyhop. fast pressing of the jump key results in useless minihops an a "stall" of the running speed so that in fact it makes you to a perfect target when you try hopping to not get shoot. i think thats near a perfect solution for this game.jumping is usefull only to jump over an obstacle but jumping to avoid bullets makes you to a perfect target.

if someone had CoD-UO load down the "germanfront" mod and take a look about this.

its easy to disparage (hope thats the real word for the german "verteufeln" - i use google for that) features like melee weapons

or jumping features - but both features a realistic parts of the world and i think they have a place in a modern combat simulation that want to be realistic. the question of this features

is not answered in "NO", thats an easy and ignorant way, its answered in "HOW".

greetings, vonStahlhelm

[gandalf the white 0]

I think a good jump to "get over obstacles" would be one that makes you sprint (Ie no shooting) for three meters, then jump like they do in the olympics (but maybe on your side, in case you have a backpack) , and then roll over so you can fire again...

...being able to jump over those sandbag defences in cwc beats the alternative...

[The Lord 0]

in current ofp u can run through them sometimes anyway :P

BTW Hi Gandalf!

[ninjatek 0]

Knifes I can see in the game. But jumping I cring at. One of the most annoying things I found in BF2 was people bunny hopping. It completely ruined what little realism was in the game for me. They would bunny hope and guess what, most of freaking time it would work for them to get away while I unloaded round after round at them. This was really just BS in my opinion. If jumping is allowed then I don't want it to allow them to have a greater chance of not being hit by reducing their body hit area, that is just gay.

However I am extremely happy to see the screen shots of real grass in AA. This means we can go prone in tall grass and use it for stealth as in JO. Using the follage and grass in JO for stealth was one of my favorite parts of that game.

[GabKa73 0]

I would like to have as much features as possible - even jumping (not to speak of melee weapons). To make it optional (turn on/off server side) would be the best solution.

Every new feature for the engine means more possibilities for later mods and addons. Melee combat for example would make it easier to get a decent medieval combat scenario with swords and axes.