USSoldier11B 0 Posted June 28, 2003 Which has lead me to this conclusion. Extremist factions on both sides are self-perpetuating this conflict. There is no objective to "win." Only a seemingly un-ending game of oneupsmanship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted June 28, 2003 In the early 90s, Israeli Prime Minister Rabin said that he would engage in a peace process as if there were no terrorism and he would fight terrorism as if there were no peace process. Â His efforts brought about 2 things; the Oslo accords and his own assassination at the hands of an Israeli extremist. Sharon's position is that peace should be a precondition for a peace process. Â The Israeli extremists are much more satisfied with Sharon's approach. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USSoldier11B 0 Posted June 28, 2003 Quote[/b] ]Sharon's position is that peace should be a precondition for a peace process. I thought spontaneous generation was proven false several centuries ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PFC_Mike 2 Posted June 29, 2003 Even if every Palestinian grabbed a gun and some C4 and attacked Israel at once, they couldn't destroy them. If the Israeli military made the obliteration of the Palestinians an objective, they would all be dead/dying/fleeing by tommorrow morning. The world would cry if the Israelis napalmed/shelled/nuked the "refugee camps" but there'd be no terrorism. Heck, depending on the global response there might not be a middle east. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazysheep 1 Posted June 29, 2003 Even if every Palestinian grabbed a gun and some C4 and attacked Israel at once, they couldn't destroy them. If the Israeli military made the obliteration of the Palestinians an objective, they would all be dead/dying/fleeing by tommorrow morning. The world would cry if the Israelis napalmed/shelled/nuked the "refugee camps" but there'd be no terrorism. Heck, depending on the global response there might not be a middle east. Not that simple. If the Israelis commited genocide openly, the USA would withdraw all support and war will be waged on Israel to prevent them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted June 29, 2003 The world would cry if the Israelis napalmed/shelled/nuked the "refugee camps" but there'd be no terrorism. You're absolutely right... well, almost. Â Why not try getting rid of the refugee camps by letting the people go back to their homes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted June 29, 2003 I bet 99,9% of their former homes are already bulldozed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USSoldier11B 0 Posted June 30, 2003 I'm a bit surprised by today's events. Read: Islamic Militants agree to cease fire Let's see how long Hamas and the IDF can go without f&*king up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted June 30, 2003 To me it sounds pretty good. All the extreme Palastinian groups who are responsible for the suicide attempts said they wanted to do no attacks in the next three months! Let`s just hope there`ll be no provocation from Israeli hardliners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarelg 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Quote[/b] ]I bet 99,9% of their former homes are already bulldozed... Â FallenPaladin, when you hear about houses being bulldozed, its not random houses, the bolldozers dont just go in and bulldoze every house they see, every house that is bulldozed is the house of a terrorist that has already commited suicide bombing/shooting spree, this method was first used about a year ago(whereas the fighting has been going on for three), it was implemented in the hope that terrorist will see what is being done to their houses after a bombing and will revise what they are about to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Quote[/b] ]I bet 99,9% of their former homes are already bulldozed... Â FallenPaladin, when you hear about houses being bulldozed, its not random houses, the bolldozers dont just go in and bulldoze every house they see, every house that is bulldozed is the house of a terrorist that has already commited suicide bombing/shooting spree, this method was first used about a year ago(whereas the fighting has been going on for three), it was implemented in the hope that terrorist will see what is being done to their houses after a bombing and will revise what they are about to do. How about the 418 Palestinian Arab villages (not homes... villages!!) that Israel leveled in the early 50s? Â From your avatar I think you might be Israeli. Â Have you ever read the famous short story by A.B. Yehoshua called Facing the Forests? According to the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions Israel has demolished almost 9,000 Palestinian homes since 1967. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted June 30, 2003 "FallenPaladin, when you hear about houses being bulldozed, its not random houses, the bolldozers dont just go in and bulldoze every house they see, every house that is bulldozed is the house of a terrorist that has already commited suicide bombing/shooting spree, this method was first used about a year ago(whereas the fighting has been going on for three), it was implemented in the hope that terrorist will see what is being done to their houses after a bombing and will revise what they are about to do." It didnt work very well, did it? Lets say a family of 7 people live in a house. One of them is an active terrorist who dies in a suicide bombing. Then the IDF shows up and bulldozes the house. Now, what side will the other 6 most like identify with? The one who bulldozed their home for something they didnt do, or the other guys? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Well, the others have already answered what I`d have answered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarelg 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Quote[/b] ]How about the 418 Palestinian Arab villages (not homes... villages!!) that Israel leveled in the early 50s? You are completely mixing things up, first of all, I was talking about the territories(west bank and gaza), in the early 50's Israel didnt have control of them. and the houses since 1967 were bulldozed for different reasons. I am speaking about the current policy after this current Intifada. Quote[/b] ]It didnt work very well, did it? Actually, it worked very well, at the begining of the Intifada you heard about the waves of terror against Israel, sometimes 4-5 suicide bombings in 24 hours, after this method was instituted, the bombing ratio has gone down significantly, with quiet times of 3-4 months between bombings. BTW - remember the cease fire that was suppose to be in order, well a foreign worker was murdered by a fatah terrorist. so much for that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Bernadotte: Â Why not try getting rid of the refugee camps by letting the people go back to their homes? FallenPaladin: Â I bet 99,9% of their former homes are already bulldozed... Â sarelg: Â ...every house that is bulldozed is the house of a terrorist that has already commited suicide bombing/shooting spree, this method was first used about a year ago... Bernadotte: Â How about the 418 Palestinian Arab villages (not homes... villages!!) that Israel leveled in the early 50s? sarelg: Â You are completely mixing things up, first of all, I was talking about the territories(west bank and gaza), in the early 50's Israel didnt have control of them. Actually, FallenPaladin and I were referring to the refugees from the 418 Palestinian Arab villages demolished in pre-1967 Israel. Â Does this mean you have not read Facing the Forests (Mul Ha-Ya'arot)? Â Have you even heard of it? Â The main point of the story is that the ends do not justify the means but are defined by them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miles teg 1 Posted June 30, 2003 Actually it was a just a month or two ago, that an entire area of Palistinian shops were bulldozed simply because they didn't have the proper permits to be there even though they had been there for many years. Some of the bulldozing is just purely spiteful. There was also an American protester who was killed not too long ago by an Israeli bulldozer. The Israelies claimed they didn't see the protester but I find that hard to believe as they dozers always have infantry support providing security who should have seen the lady in her red jacket and there were also fellow protesters on the ground trying to stop the bulldozer. As for bulldozing the homes of suicide bombers, in many cases their families did not know that that their sons were planning on blow themselves up. Part of the reason for the cash awards Hamas and other organizations give to the families of suicide bombers is precisely because they need it to rebuild their homes after they get bulldozed. Although I do not know if that practice started before or after the bulldozing began. Whatever the case that policy simply does nothing but aggrivate the situation even more. In other words it has NOT been proven to effective at all in deterring terrorists. It only seems to make them more determined and it draws sympathy to the Palistinian cause from around the world. Hopefully this latest ceasefire will hold. Although I hear a Romanian truck driver was recently shot by Palistinian gunmen...although my guess is that it was just a random act of crime as I have no idea why they'd attack a Romanian unless they thought he was working with Israeli intelligence or something. Chris G. aka-Miles Teg<GD> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted June 30, 2003 There was also an American protester who was killed not too long ago by an Israeli bulldozer. The home that her group were trying to save belonged to a physician with absolutely no connection to any terrorism. So why did the IDF demolish it? The IDF decided that the house (actually an entire row of houses) was close enough to the Egyptian border that someday a tunnel might be built from the doctor's home and used to smuggle arms into Gaza. Â ...At least that's the IDF version. Question for sarelg: Â Did the doctor receive any compensation for losing his home in the name of Israel's security? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted July 1, 2003 for all german speaking members, have a look at this! Flashplayer presentation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted July 1, 2003 voila Flashplayer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted July 1, 2003 WOW impressive read. Will take me some time busy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted July 2, 2003 Same with me, I`ll have a look at it if I find the time. Isn`t there an English version for the other guys here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted July 2, 2003 voilaFlashplayer Interesting... According to Der Spiegel, 4 important things happened before 1972 and 22 important things happened after. Â It's almost as if the Middle East Crisis wasn't a real crisis until the Munich massacre... from a German media perspektive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted July 2, 2003 voilaFlashplayer Interesting... According to Der Spiegel, 4 important things happened before 1972 and 22 important things happened after. Â It's almost as if the Middle East Crisis wasn't a real crisis until the Munich massacre... from a German media perspektive. No, it is just that the SPIEGEL didnt cover this topic as much as after the Munich massacre. Lets not forget that this is a summary of previously published articles. How many articles did you find in the NEW YORK TIMES about Afghanistan before 9/11? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
