The Middle East part 2

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]Plutonium found in Iran waste facility

VIENNA, Austria - International Atomic Energy experts have found unexplained plutonium and highly enriched uranium traces in a nuclear waste facility in

Iran and have asked Tehran for an explanation, an IAEA report said Tuesday.

The report, prepared for next week's meeting of the 35-nation IAEA, also faulted Tehran for not cooperating with the agency's attempts to investigate suspicious aspects of Iran's nuclear program that have lead to fears it might be interested in developing nuclear arms.

And it said it could not confirm Iranian claims that its nuclear activities were exclusively nonmilitary unless Tehran increased its openness.

Rest of article is here.

[Nemesis6 0]

all palestinians are not arab

Wrong. Even the ones who come from another place(Yasser Arafat for example) and call themselves Palestinians are Arabs, too. Name one who isn't.

Political cartoons for all! :-)

[Garcia 0]

Name one who isn't.

Name all who are Palestinians and arab...

[Bernadotte 0]

@Bernadotte

They want the land that we bought to, didn't you know ?

Oh really?  Who is "they" ?  Who are these people who apparently all think according to this same opinion that you believe "they" have?

Just because I happen to know a few racist bigoted Israelis does it mean all Israelis are racist bigots?  Of course not.

Name one who isn't.

Ariel Sharon was born a Palestinian and remained a Palestinian during the first 20 years of his life.  Nonetheless, nearly all people calling themselves Palestinians these days are Arabs.

By the way, what do Arab Israelis call themselves?  ...Israelis or Palestinians?  

[Nemesis6 0]

Ariel Sharon was born a Palestinian and remained a Palestinian during the first 20 years of his life. Nonetheless, nearly all people calling themselves Palestinians these days are Arabs.

By the way, what do Arab Israelis call themselves? ...Israelis or Palestinians?

Let's stick to the present now, huh?

Arab-Israelis although I could imagine that a majority of them identify themselves as Palestinians.

[mp_phonix 0]

Arab-Israelis although I could imagine that a majority of them identify themselves as Palestinians.

100% true.

[Bernadotte 0]

Let's stick to the present now, huh?

Whatever is most convenient for you, huh?  

Arab-Israelis although I could imagine that a majority of them identify themselves as Palestinians.

100% true.

Did your family identify themselves as Soviets, Ukrainians or perhaps even Russians before moving to Israel?  

[mp_phonix 0]

I do not understand the nature of this question. are you expecting to hear a certain answear ?

[Bernadotte 0]

I do not understand the nature of this question. are you expecting to hear a certain answear ?

yes

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Wrong. Even the ones who come from another place(Yasser Arafat for example) and call themselves Palestinians are Arabs, too. Name one who isn't.

Political cartoons for all! :-)

well in my view the West (more appropriatly the USA, to stop dragging other countries in ) shouldnt expect iran to do anything about there nuclier program unless Israel remove there nucliear weapons.  Otherwise i dont see why iran should stop.  if the US truly believed in stabalising the middle east then they have to take the nukes out of israel.  otherwise who are we too tell iran to stop?  Israel are renowned for there so called "pre-emtive strikes" which in my books are just war starters attempted to be justified.  so who can say who would launch the first nuke. oh no but israel say "we would never lanch the first nuke", well em.. so do iran.

[Nemesis6 0]

5 wars have been started against Israel - The war of Independance in 1948, the Yom Kippur war of 1967/1973, the first Lebanon war, and then the first and second Intifada. The first two were not simple terror like the 3 after them. The war of Independance was an attempt to crush Israel, and so was Yom Kippur, and you want Israel to give up the only defence it has against enemies who have on numerous occasions tried to destroy it and kill every single Jew, and is still to this day funding those who are active in trying to achieve this goal, for example, the Palestinian government?

I'm confused.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

so nukes are israels only defence? no offence but thats just silly. Israel dosnt need nukes. why do they need them? seriously? what could they possible use them for?

[Nemesis6 0]

so nukes are israels only defence? no offence but thats just silly. Israel dosnt need nukes. why do they need them? seriously? what could they possible use them for?

What does Israel need them for? What does the West need them for? We have no enemies.

What would happen if the Arab world of today went against Israel? There's really no telling, but it's better to know that if they did, Mecca will be smoking crater. That's the whole idea - Mess with Israel, and you're gonna get your ass handed to you 10 times harder than the last few times you tried. Nuke Mecca? Just using that as an example. You could go for any other target to be honest. Israel needs nukes. Iran doesn't. Iran has no local enemies while Israel has them on every single side of its tiny borders.

[Garcia 0]

(...) and you want Israel to give up the only defence it has against enemies who have on numerous occasions tried to destroy it and kill every single Jew, and is still to this day funding those who are active in trying to achieve this goal, for example, the Palestinian government?

I'm confused.

I'm confused too...

I wonder, how come Israel never have used a nuke if that is their only defence? Strange that they have survived 5 wars without using their only defence

[Nemesis6 0]

Semantics man to the rescue!

I don't know if Israel had nukes during the Yom Kippur war, but I'd bet that if they had them, they didn't use them because their goal is different from their enemies... Their goal is to defend themselves. The enemies' goal is to expand. No, that's actually too moderate. The Arab goal for a war with Israel would be, and I quote, to "Drive the Jews into the sea."

[Baff2 0]

Israel needs nukes. Iran doesn't. Iran has no local enemies while Israel has them on every single side of its tiny borders.

The U.S. has Iran surrounded (Afghanistan, Iraq and a fleet in Gulf, Saudi, kuwait and Oman plus bases in strike range at Uzebekistan) and has been threatening military intervention for sometime and has done so more than once in living memory.

Israel isn't exactly acting very friendly and is also within striking distance and has a history of aggression in the region.

Iraq used to be very Anti Iranian, and the area hardly has a history of regional stability.

The Iranians need nukes, every bit as much as we need them not to have. The problem with Iran having nukes, is not that they will be able to attack us, but rather that we shall no longer be able to attack them.

[Baff2 0]

Semantics man to the rescue!

I don't know if Israel had nukes during the Yom Kippur war, but I'd bet that if they had them, they didn't use them because their goal is different from their enemies... Their goal is to defend themselves. The enemies' goal is to expand. No, that's actually too moderate. The Arab goal for a war with Israel would be, and I quote, to "Drive the Jews into the sea."

Wasn't it the Yom Kippur war where the Israelis pretended to be Egyptians and shot up the American spyship?

They didn't have nukes of their own. They wished to trick the Americans into using theirs. It very nearly worked too, the nuclear bombers where well on the way to Cairo before the U.S. worked it out and recalled them.

Or was that another war?

Don't getting an silly idea's about the Israeli's being kindly pacifists, if you get into it with them it won't be pretty.

[Bernadotte 0]

Wasn't it the Yom Kippur war where the Israelis pretended to be Egyptians and shot up the American spyship?

No.  That was the Six Day War.  See:  USS Liberty Incident

News (for some of us):

Quote[/b] ]An Israeli advocacy group, using maps and figures leaked from inside the government, says that 39 percent of the land held by Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank is privately owned by Palestinians.  Israel has long asserted that it fully respects Palestinian private property in the West Bank and only takes land there legally or, for security reasons, temporarily.

--NYT

Looks like the Israeli government has been telling lies.    

[Original post got lost in rollback, methinks.  ]

[scary 0]

...the only defence it has against enemies who have on numerous occasions tried to destroy it and kill every single Jew...

Is this a new record? It only took you 29 minutes to contradict yourself with this:

Quote[/b] ]...they didn't use them because their goal is different from their enemies... Their goal is to defend themselves.

Quote[/b] ]The enemies' goal is to expand.

And what are West Bank settlements if not Israeli expansion?

Quote[/b] ]Israel needs nukes. Iran doesn't. Iran has no local enemies while Israel has them on every single side of its tiny borders.

Well, that's a self-defeating argument. Nuclear weapons aren't for use against a local enemy - the effects don't stop at the border. That is one reason why Israel had never used them, another is that their delivery system is rather poor, they'd be better off sending them by UPS. Israel's nuclear weapons are for posturing, they are quite useless.

And you're not going to make anyone feel sorry for tiny Israel by the use of emotive polemic. Israel is not the plucky David against the big scary Goliath, so there is no point in representing it as such.

As for Iran not having any local enemies, surely you jest?

Quote[/b] ]That's the whole idea - Mess with Israel, and you're gonna get your ass handed to you 10 times harder than the last few times you tried.

Perhaps you could remind me how the war went with Hizballah?

Quote[/b] ]What would happen if the Arab world of today went against Israel?

The Arab goal for a war with Israel would be, and I quote, to "Drive the Jews into the sea."

As well as them all thinking the same, I guess Arabs all look the same to you too, huh? When does Kritallnacht start?

[Baff2 0]

... That is one reason why Israel had never used them, another is that their delivery system is rather poor, they'd be better off sending them by UPS.

What is the delivery system?

Aeroplane? Artillery? Ballisitic missile? Submarine launched Ballistic missile?

The Israelis make some pretty sophisticated air launched guided missiles.

(P.S. thanks to Bernodette for the correction about the 6 day war).

[Nemesis6 0]

As well as them all thinking the same, I guess Arabs all look the same to you too, huh? When does Kritallnacht start?

You try so hard, like many others, to paint me a racist/whatever, and I shrug it off because I've heard it so many times before and I know it's bull.

Anyway - You really think Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Iraq are enemies of Iran? An example would be Saudi Arabia - Their only reason for cooperating with the U.S is for financial purposes and possibly for spreading Wahhabi Islamist ideologies to U.S mosques. And note that I said LOCAL enemies, the U.S is far away, alledged proxies be damned, it'd be way too hard.

Israel STILL needs nukes. Iran doesn't. Israel is the most likely target of any attack. To be honest, I find it strangely pacifistic that no one has touched Iran even when it attacked Israel a few months back with its proxy HizbAllah. Speaking of HizbAllah and the whole "we beat Izrail Azrail! Allah'u akbar!" attitude that many Westerners have bought into... I remember how many times HizbAllah asked Israel for Hudna during the fighting, and to this day, they're still doing the thing they started doing after Israel attacked them - Resupplying, with Syria's direct help I might add.

The fact is that Israel has enemies all around it and even within, and nukes is a pretty nice detergent from messing with it. You could turn it around and say that Iran could need it for that very same reason. Only problems is that they have a maniac dictator who has purged the government of all reformers and openly declared will to destroy Israel.

[Baff2 0]

Anyway - You really think Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Iraq are enemies of Iran? An example would be Saudi Arabia - Their only reason for cooperating with the U.S is for financial purposes and possibly for spreading Wahhabi Islamist ideologies to U.S mosques. And note that I said LOCAL enemies, the U.S is far away, alledged proxies be damned, it'd be way too hard.

Israel STILL needs nukes.

Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait may not be enemies of Iran, but they all host military airbases populated by Americans who are.

They have been colonised.

American military bases surround Iran. They are all "local" and they all mean business.

There is no point pretending America doesn't have local assets in Iran's region and that it doesn't mean to attack with them. It does.

Iran needs nukes. There is no other way it can defend itself from America and nukes are the only guarentee it could have that Isreal wouldn't attack.

I completely sympathise with Isreals desire for nukes too. But that doesn't in anyway diminsh Irans need. It aggravates it.

[Nemesis6 0]

Now here's the strange thing....

Iran says it has no intentions of making weapons. If it's not making weapons, why is it defying the IAEA? The U.N has been misled by the Iranians. The Iranian nuclear negotiator, Hassan Rowhani admitted this.

[Baff2 0]

No one cares.

Isreal says the same thing.

What's so strange about that?

We all know they are both lying. And even if they are not, we still have to assume that they are.

[Nemesis6 0]

That's the dangerous part - An old holocaust survivor said this: "If someone tells you they want to kill you, believe them." Now that counts anywhere in my opinion.

Iran's intentions with this is unclear, now let's assume Israel has nuclear weapons? What would it do with them? It has never stated a flat out "Death to Iran" or "We'll drink the blood of the Arabs!", etc. Iran, however, has. Substitute 'Iran' and 'Arabs' with "The Zionist entity" and 'Jews'. And remember that to this day, Iran is still fighting Israel along with several of the Arab states by funding terror organizations.

Oh yeah, the death cult Hamas sent a suicide bomber to kill jews for the first time in 2 years, lightly wounding 3 soldiers.

Quote[/b] ]JABALIYA, Gaza Strip (AFP) - A Palestinian grandmother blew herself up in the Gaza Strip, lightly wounding three Israeli soldiers, in the first suicide attack claimed by Hamas in almost two years.

The mother of nine and grandmother of 41 became the oldest Palestinian suicide bomber at the age of 57, selecting as her target troops operating near her northern Gaza home in Jabaliya, seeking to curb near-daily rocket attacks on Israel.

“Troops saw a woman approaching them in a suspicious manner and identified her carrying an explosive device,†an army spokeswoman said. “They then threw a stun grenade in her direction but she managed to blow herself up,†she added, adding that three soldiers were lightly hurt.

Within minutes the armed wing of the Hamas claimed the bombing. This was the Islamist group’s first suicide attack since January 2005, when a bomber wounded seven Israeli soldiers in Gaza. “The Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades claims the martyr operation carried out by Fatima Omar Mahmud al-Najar, aged 57, in the middle of a group of Zionist soldiers,†an online statement said.

As I usually think when the death cult sends people, including children to blow themselves up - Praise be that the horrible people who manage to carry these attacks out die a horrible death.