The Middle East part 2

[Donnervogel 0]

What's wrong with doing that to filthy terrorists ?

1. This is simply a disgusting mindset. But we've seen before that you find it funny when people get killed so it's not surprising.

2. If you think like that I wonder how you find it negative that the German soldiers were posing with Skulls from people that died many years ago from whatever cause... you make no sense... oh wait we've established before that you suffer from severe double standards.

[ozanzac 0]

What's wrong with doing that to filthy terrorists ?

You're beyond hope.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

I guess you can leave it up to me. I´m old enough to know where I stand and I don´t need you to tell me what I have to say or not.

Shame on you Nemesis for trying to divert attention from IDF to something else. If you want to know what I think about the soldiers posing with bones, ask me and I will tell you what I think.

Else, I will just take it as another try for a nice flaming from your side that won´t work.

[mp_phonix 0]

Quote[/b] ]

You're beyond hope

First of all, I said I didn't see something wrong with this but that does not mean I will do it.

Second of all, you all saying that because most of you probably live in Europian countries and never been close enought to war/warzone/ leaving where bombings never happening. better ne saying this first, 7/7 London does not make England a country that suffers from terror, Ok ?! neither does 9/11 make USA a "country that suffers from terror"

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But we've seen before that you find it funny when people get killed so it's not surprising

and when exactly that happend ?

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oh wait we've established before that you suffer from severe double standards

I ? I suffer from double standarts ? the one who's suffering from double standarts is the world. Everybody complaining that we are suposably "murdering" innocnet phalastinians for no reason, but of course, all the world talks, but all the world "stf"ups when countrys like France [Algeria],Germany[u know what i'm talking about, and I'm not refering only to jews], Russia [Chechnya], if you take all of those tree the deat toll will be a millions !

I suffer from double standarts ? take a look at yourself first.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Germany[u know what i'm talking about, and I'm not refering only to jews]

What are you referring to then ?

Quote[/b] ]First of all, I said I didn't see something wrong with this but that does not mean I will do it.

What kind of logic is that ? You can´t do it because you are obviously not in the military. Apart from that I fail to see your reasoning.

Quote[/b] ]never been close enought to war/warzone/ leaving where bombings never happening.

I´ve had quite enough of that already on various places.

Quote[/b] ]Everybody complaining that we are suposably "murdering" innocnet phalastinians for no reason,

And the use of white phosphor in Lebanon and the use of cluster ammunition (read AP mines) in amounts that no country ever has used in history on civillians and civillian residential areas is just an illusion, right ?

We don´t live in the 30´s, we have arrived in the year 2006 and the "victims" in Israel seem to have forgotten about their own suffering seeing how they acted in Lebanon with no respect for civillian life and the intentional mining of civillian areas for years.

[Garcia 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

Using your logic you shouldn't say anything. After all, using your logic you're resposible for the Muhammed-"crisis" (and if you wonder what your logic is, it is that if you're living in the same country as someone who does something bad, then your guilty too...).

Quote[/b] ]First of all, I said I didn't see something wrong with this but that does not mean I will do it.

Second of all, you all saying that because most of you probably live in Europian countries and never been close enought to war/warzone/ leaving where bombings never happening.

That we live in peaceful areas doesn't mean we all would behave like that if we found ourselves in a warzone. Besides, the germans that did behave somewhat like that (though posing with a headskull isn't as bad as chilling out next to a pile of bodies) will probably be punished for doing it.

[mp_phonix 0]

Quote[/b] ]Germany[u know what i'm talking about, and I'm not refering only to jews]

What are you referring to then ?

The Nazi's was not only killed jews. the killed also : Gypis, Gays, Slavik people when they invaded russia [According the the Nazi "living space" idea [or it is called somewhat else in english?].

So I was refering to that also, not only the jews.

@Garcia,everybody else

idk where u got that story of IDF SF posing with piles of bodies, I just heard it happend with an S-13 Naval commando team who killed terrorist in an operation, just a day after on of their team memmbers was shot in the head while making an arrest -> for who does not know an arrest precidure is not busting into a house, the forces puul out nout side the house and call the terrorist to come out peacfully, and at that point some terrorist pulled himeslef out of the window and shot that soldier. btw in the same incident according to "eye witnesses" S-13 operator shot a terrorist who was supposibly "laying on the groud injured" -> gues they havn't heard about

"killing confirmation" ---->>> after that S-13 was closed down in the terretoris, meaning that they didn't do operations in the terretries anymore.

[Nemesis6 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

Using your logic you shouldn't say anything. After all, using your logic you're resposible for the Muhammed-"crisis" (and if you wonder what your logic is, it is that if you're living in the same country as someone who does something bad, then your guilty too...).

I'm aware of that. However, I think drawing pictures is a little less serious than desecrating a corpse. Besides, the Muhammed drawings were a necessity. It's things like them that make people rethink their faith, and whether it's really worth it to destroy stuff and kill people when they're "offended".

[Garcia 0]

idk where u got that story of IDF SF posing with piles of bodies

It was just a figure of speech

[Donnervogel 0]

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But we've seen before that you find it funny when people get killed so it's not surprising

and when exactly that happend ?

Just go some pages back. I already commented once to you that I found your comments disgusting regarding the death of a human being. I can't be arsed to look up the exact date.

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oh wait we've established before that you suffer from severe double standards

I ? I suffer from double standarts ? the one who's suffering from double standarts is the world.

Of course the world does suffer from double standards. Everyone does to some extend. But some people don't even try to be balanced. And stating that to kill human beings and then take trophy pictures with their bodies is ok and at the same time supporting criticism of others taking tasteless pics with skulls they found somewhere in the desert is beyond any limit of acceptable double standards.

Quote[/b] ]Everybody complaining that we are suposably "murdering" innocnet phalastinians for no reason, [...]

I don't recall anybody complaining about Israel "murdering innocent palestinians" in the last few postings. Your problem is that you jump to wrong conclusions way too quickly. But if you're not getting what we're complaining about you're really "beyond hope".

Quote[/b] ][...] but of course, all the world talks, but all the world "stf"ups when countrys like France [Algeria],Germany[u know what i'm talking about, and I'm not refering only to jews], Russia [Chechnya], if you take all of those tree the deat toll will be a millions !

Now you're getting absurd. No other nation has taken as much criticism for it's past as Germany (at least in the western world) in the last 60 years.

Also criticism on Russia about Chechnya (and other things) is fairly ususal in all mainstream media where I live. Also France gets criticised for many things including Algeria. Same as Israel, USA, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Japan, Iran, Turkey, Sudan, South Africa, China and many more nations for various things they do or did... (But obviously I'm not complaining in the Middle East thread about the Germans putting my grandmother and her mother in a concentration camp and the communist russians robbing the rest of my grandparents of all their posessions.)

Quote[/b] ]take a look at yourself first.

and you think when I take a look at myself I'm suddenly going to find it ok that people do wrong things?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think drawing pictures is a little less serious than desecrating a corpse.

I´m not defending the photos in any way, but I have to say that the location where the pics were taken is quite famous among other nations troops aswell for taking pictures with human remains.

It´s no cemetery or something like that. The afghan workers at the site just throw the bones on a pile when digging for raw materials to build.

So it´s not like the soldiers were digging for bodies , the sceletons and bones are just lying around everywhere.

The photo safaris at the location are to be condemned of course. 2 soldiers have already been suspended from service and there will be more who will get their punishment for that actions.

We´re not the US, we do investigate and punish properly for misbehaviour and illegal acts.

Quote[/b] ]So I was refering to that also, not only the jews

So ? Still it´s 60 years ago and if anybody, we have learned our lesson. I can´t say that for the victims of that time. Israel has/had no problems to demand blood-money from germany but they still loop in accusation circles today, which is kind of surreal if you have an eye at their own actions.

If you are so keen on history, take your time, learn the lesson and don´t adopt the same patterns and schemes while still pointing fingers at us, the germans.

We pay money for your security down there, we send forces down there to keep weapon smugglers away from the Lebanon coast and IDF has nothing better to do then provoking diplomatic crisis because they feel uncomfortable about a recon ship that can monitor illegal flight activities over Lebanon.

Btw, the videos from surveilance cameras have been sent to Berlin now and they do indeed reflect the german version of the happenings. Avon will have a hard time neglecting them, but of course she will end up voicing that they have been produced by the german movie Studios at Babelsberg.

One more Avon, the 1st incident I posted with the Frankfurt involved and the SAR helo was confirmed and has to be seen as a separate event. I checked it, it´s even in Israeli newspapers.

[mp_phonix 0]

You got me wrong. I was refering to when the holocust was happening, also Algeria, nobody said anything.

[Garcia 0]

You got me wrong. I was refering to when the holocust was happening, also Algeria, nobody said anything.

May that have something to do with the fact that during WWII people didn't know much about Holocaust? It's generally quite hard to say something about things you don't know about...

[mp_phonix 0]

damn that "we didn't know" myth again ?

[Garcia 0]

damn that "we didn't know" myth again ?  

Oh well, I thought I'd just bring up the "myth" since you brought up the holocaust "myth"... Do you really think that people in general knew about holocaust?

[mp_phonix 0]

Not everybody, but the leaders of USA, Britain and probably the russians knew !

[SPQR 0]

Even the German leaders knew about it... but don't tell anybody

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]You got me wrong. I was refering to when the holocust was happening, also Algeria, nobody said anything.

So what? Today we are voicing concerns on what is happening in Israel and it´s neighbouring countries AS WE KNOW what happened in germany during the 30´s and 40´s.

If you are one of the lucky ones who frequently use time-machines to go back to the 30´s I could understand your reasoning, but we´re living today with the background knowledge we have on the Hitler era, that should indeed influence our approach to races, other believes and mankind.

If you can´t transport the experiences from the 30´s to today, there´s noone to be blamed but you.

Oh and about your "noone did something". I bet you would have been first to stand up and voice up, right ? You´d end in a concentration-camp sonner than you can say "1,2,3"

It´s very easy to judge people if you are not in their pants.

In fact I think , judging you by your posts here, you would have been one of those fanatics joining rows with SS or SA if you grew up in germany at the time and were non-jewish, as you have no value for human life others than your own race´s life.

You label everyone "terrorist", even if they just happen to live in a certain district. I could dig up that post of yours, but I don´t feel arsed to do so.

Lesson learned ? No, lesson ignored.

[Garcia 0]

Not everybody, but the leaders of USA, Britain and probably the russians knew !

Yes and USA is giving Israel such a hard time now every time they do something bad And what a suprise Soviet didn't say squat about holocaust...I mean, Stalin was such a peach...

And when I say USA I of course mean the US goverment, not the people of USA.

[mp_phonix 0]

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... as you have no value for human life others than your own race´s life

I don't know what about you, but I would rather drop a 500kg bomb on a house and kill 1 terrorist and 3 civillians, rather then to let him terrorist blow up in TA and killing 20 people.

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You label everyone "terrorist", even if they just happen to live in a certain district.

I do ?  

I guess each person have his own defenition of a terrorist. I presume you would rather call HAMAS's & Hizbullah's people "rebels" or "freedom fighters" I presume ?

Well . .If they'd have stop targeting civillians in my country, maybe I'd call them like this too, since they continue to run around with AK's in the streets and take shots on civillian cars in the terretoris, sucide-bomb in Tel-Aviv and Shoot Quasams on Sderot and Ashqelon [which is my city btw], I'd prefer calling them terrorist, If you won't mind.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]

... as you have no value for human life others than your own race´s life

I don't know what about you, but I would rather drop a 500kg bomb on a house and kill 1 terrorist and 3 civillians, rather then to let him terrorist blow up in TA and killing 20 people.

Quote[/b] ]

You label everyone "terrorist", even if they just happen to live in a certain district.

I do ?  

I guess each person have his own defenition of a terrorist. I presume you would rather call HAMAS's & Hizbullah's people "rebels" or "freedom fighters" I presume ?

Well . .If they'd have stop targeting civillians in my country, maybe I'd call them like this too, since they continue to run around with AK's in the streets and take shots on civillian cars in the terretoris, sucide-bomb in Tel-Aviv and Shoot Quasams on Sderot and Ashqelon [which is my city btw], I'd prefer calling them terrorist, If you won't mind.

The problem is that you would rather drop a 500 kg bomb on a house killing 0 terrorists and 60 civilians than have the terrorist walk around in his own country. You labeled people in civilian clothing as terrorists during the war in Lebanon because they shot at Israeli forces. You seem to support any IDF actions that may kill a terrorist, and since you seem to label everyone who oppose Israeli forces or attack Israel in any way as terrorists, you kind of support targeting "terrorists" who would probably not attack Israel, and you would still support it when dozens of civilians died and no real terrorists got killed.

I just saw a interview with a swedish author, and he had written a novel about the Palestine - Israel conflict, and he had a rather good question. Israeli forces can kill as many civilians as they want without being labeled as terrorists by any western goverment, while anyone on the other side who doesn't wear a fancy uniform who kills a Israeli civilian is labeled as a terrorist right away. Now what's the difference? If your whole family got killed by someone in a uniform, what makes it so much better? It's the same thing. This apparently had a central role in the book, since it was about a palestinian group getting hold of a russian high-tech sub and pulling on nice blue uniforms...and then the western world suddenly have problems on wether or not they shall label them as terrorists or not. Why? Because now they're in uniform. They're doing exactly the same thing, just in uniform, and if they label them as terrorists, they would label their own acts as terrorism too, since they do the same.

[ran 0]

What's up with Algeria, Phonix ?

[sanctuary 19]

I don't know what about you, but I would rather drop a 500kg bomb on a house and kill 1 terrorist and 3 civillians, rather then to let him terrorist blow up in TA and killing 20 people.

Hmm, accepting to kill innocents as long as you reach your goal...

Isn't that exactly what the murderers and terrorists do ?

[Nemesis6 0]

Except that the goal of the terrorists IS killing innocents.

[Sophion-Black 0]

I just saw a interview with a swedish author, and he had written a novel about the Palestine - Israel conflict, and he had a rather good question. Israeli forces can kill as many civilians as they want without being labeled as terrorists by any western goverment, while anyone on the other side who doesn't wear a fancy uniform who kills a Israeli civilian is labeled as a terrorist right away. Now what's the difference? If your whole family got killed by someone in a uniform, what makes it so much better? It's the same thing. This apparently had a central role in the book, since it was about a palestinian group getting hold of a russian high-tech sub and pulling on nice blue uniforms...and then the western world suddenly have problems on wether or not they shall label them as terrorists or not. Why? Because now they're in uniform. They're doing exactly the same thing, just in uniform, and if they label them as terrorists, they would label their own acts as terrorism too, since they do the same.

Understand this: All Soldiers are terrorists, by definition. the reason for this is because soldiers use psychological warfare daily. And its to terrorize people. But don't get me wrong, its not like they want to let everyone know "they're here and in charge," they just want to scare the enemy away.

Face it, if you are part of a massive attack on a focal point that is the same strength as you, you want them to look at you and say "See ya!" and run away.

What you see here is a little different because the IDF is going after guerrillas/terrorists. Besides, they still get whined at for killing the civilians. It doesn't go unnoticed.