The Middle East part 2

[Bernadotte 0]

You actually comparing Genecide to military operation ? damn !

So you think if it involves the military it can't be genocide, huh?

If it doesn't have gas chambers it can't be genocide, right?

If a Jew doesn't die then it can't be genocide, eh?

Sick mind!!  

And obviously from the story I've just posted, if it doesn't have a swastika on it

then it can't be racist - at least according to the Israeli authorities in E. Jerusalem.

[mp_phonix 0]

whats a "swastika" ?

those graffiti are racist and who did it should be arrested, I din't say they don't.

[Messiah 2]

whats a "swastika" ?

oh please....

[mp_phonix 0]

Oh the nazi's symbol . . .

Funny you think so Bernadotte

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

All we see right now is rather an unsignificant military operation to destroy the retreat/escape routes of the hostage takers!

Dont overemphasize.

[Bernadotte 0]

...will Israel declare waron Lebanon in an effort to get their men back...

Maybe they'll attempt to <s>kidnap</s> detain two thirds of the Lebanese parliament.

In other news...

On Monday night, an IDF airstrike killed 3 teenagers and seriously injured a fourth while they were playing football outside their school.  The IDF claims they were targetting militants.

On Tuesday night, an IDF airstrike that demolished a 3 story apartment house killed 6 occupants including 2 women and 2 children.  The IDF claims they were targetting a Hamas commander who was injured in the attack, but escaped.

Oh the nazi's symbol . . .

Funny you think so  Bernadotte

Btw, I have no idea what this meant.  

[Nemesis6 0]

Why do you think it's insignificant, Albert?

By the way, Phoenix, don't take the whole ban thing personally. They want to have me banned, too!

[h - 169]

Quote[/b] ]They want to have me banned, too!

That was just so hilarious I couldn't resist...

[ralphwiggum 6]

Why do you think it's insignificant, Albert?

By the way, Phoenix, don't take the whole ban thing personally. They want to have me banned, too!  

You were PRed because you consistently wanted to drive threads offtopic in attempts to talk about tpoics YOU were interested with absurd argument.

Don't act like you are all innocent.

Second, I suggest all participants take a step back. Things are getting heated up here.

[mp_phonix 0]

On Monday night, an IDF airstrike killed 3 teenagers and seriously injured a fourth while they were playing football outside their school.  The IDF claims they were targetting militants.

Ok I'll cool down.

Do you really think we killed them for fun ? I mean, be sirouse for a couple of minutes, really.

What we think "let's pop some kids playing football, just for the fun of it ". I mean, really.

The Helicopter was targetig a bunch of quassam rocket launchers {the dues that launch them}, the missle probably missed the target. I go nothing to say about it then "Shit happens" --> not that i'm happy about it or can understand the lose of the families.

It is unfortunate and it is not allright that civillians are being killed, and about me saying burn Gaza and Lebanon, I said that because I was mad.

Bernadotte, I allready explained, but you don't want to listen. We allways detain terrorist, and yes we detained those HAMAS parlament to show protest and also to show them that they cannot commence attack against Israeli military on Israeli Soild. It's like some Al-quida go bomb U.S. Army Camp somewhere in the U.S.A .

If you want an example of an arrest, go to video.google.com, search term "IDF", and there will be a video of 6 minutes long of an arest operation {i think it's called "IDF arrest terrorist" i cant recall}. I don't expect you all to be pro-Israeli, bo you have to understand you cannot negotiate with terrorist.

We reatread from Gaza and gave it back to them [phalastinians] and in 2000 we retreated from South Lebanon. Search in Wikipedia for the 1982 Israel-Lebanonb war you will find all the reasons there & aftermath.

You say I don't bring quotes. Why I don't bring them ? becase:

1.)They are from Israeli sites - you don't understand hebrew {or if i'll translate you will probably claimed I faked it or smt}

2.) you will say that the news/government don't tell the truth etc.

I don't know where you live Bernadotte, but living in a country that you have war on your own soil it is very diffrent from fighting in another place,for example like US in Iraq/Afghan. Possible that I am blinded by my natianality etc., but you cannot say that I am lying to you and stuff because of that.

Just try to be more open minded about the subject - I know IDF & my country makes mistakes, but you cannot crossefy them for it.

Bernadotte, comparing what happening here with the hollocust, that is just low. this is not the same, I suggest you find some good encylopidias or online resoursec and read about it, ok man ?

Israeli news site {walla!}

http://news.walla.co.il/?w=//939313

What is isaid here that Nasralla {leader of Hizballah} saying that he do not want to drag the region to a war but he kidnhapped the soldiers to make "prisinor exchange" - well, he should have thought about it before making his move : Tanks rolling and airplanes flying in Lebanonb : Israeli Buissnes - Nasrallas's problem.

Picture from Israeli news :

Israeli artillary firing at Lebanon, today.]

Edit:

IDF call the reservists to service {don't know the excat phrase to that in english}. theres about 600,000 reservist in Israel, but IDf didn't call all of them. Small IDF currntly operating in south Lebanon.

Link to online news {Israeli news}:

http://news.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=ch10

*note:

If you see comercials - exit, that means they don't transmit now

[Donnervogel 0]

phonix

I do not claim to know how it is to live in a country that considers itself at war and all. But that was never the point of mine (and other people's) postings. We don't know it but we can observe and what we see is that both sides are doing wrong things and both sides are accusing each other of starting and both sides are being terribly stubborn. The point behind my replies was merley to show to you that you are affected by something that is called double standards.

Easy example... you get mad when a soldier of yours gets abducted. But you find it correct when israel makes mass arrests of people and then holds them in prisons without even charging them. But if you take a neutral look you could see that those actions are basicly equally unrightful. Because detaining people and not charging them has nothing to do with justice.

Of course Israel has the right to prosecute terrorists but they have to arrest people only when they have clear evidence and the people get charged and get heard by a court within a few days after they got arrested. (Israel is not the only "western" country violating these basic principles of modern justice systems.)

Another example of said mentioned double standarts is that you come here being quite angered that a Kassam rocket landed 1km from your house but you say "shit happens" when Israeli chopper pilots kill kids playing football because they apparently misfired their missile or you call a 10 year old girl that gets shot because she entered a restricted area around some outpost "stupid".

Now having double standarts when living in a country like yours is not uncommon and to some extend everybody has them. But that's where outsiders can come in handy as they can point those things out and instead of accusing them of being anti-jewish/anti-israeli or pro-terrorists you should take some time to think about it and think about what you want. Which leads me to the next thing.

"Burn Gaza"? What would that help? You guys need to accept that there will allways be muslim arabs in your "neighbourhood" and the only realistic solution to your problems is to get along without killing each other. For that both sides need to settle down their unbeliveable stubbornness and stop seeking revenge for everything. I blame the palestinians equally for the situation as the Israelis. We can debate for centuries about who started and what not but the simple fact is that it doesn't matter. Only thing you need to do is to accept is that there is a price to pay for "peace". That price might hurt, but surley doesn't hurt as much as losing loved ones in terror attacks or in IDF raids. And the price is to let go and burry the hatchet without being "even".

Yes I know I'm terribly naive. But I'm right too.

[Bernadotte 0]

Do you really think we killed them for fun ?

Of course not.  Most murder is not done for fun.

I go nothing to say about it then "Shit happens"

...again and again and again.

...and about me saying burn Gaza and Lebanon, I said that because I was mad.

And in just a few years when you are again mad enough to say "burn Gaza" you'll also be in the IDF and heavily armed.  

I don't expect you all to be pro-Israeli, bo you have to understand you cannot negotiate with terrorist.

Wrong.  History has far more examples of terrorism ending through negotiation than conquest.

You say I don't bring quotes. Why I don't bring them ? becase:

1.)They are from Israeli sites - you don't understand hebrew {or if i'll translate you will probably claimed I faked it or smt}

2.) you will say that the news/government don't tell the truth etc.

I get as much of my info from Israeli sites as possible.  They are usually much more honest and better informed than foreign media.  I suspect it's because it's much easier for the Israeli government to restrict the press credentials of foreign journalists than Israeli reporters.

Bernadotte, comparing what happening here with the hollocust, that is just low.

As you already know, that was in response to your "burn Gaza" rant.  But you don't need me to compare the actions of the IDF to WWII.  Your own countrymen are doing it all the time.

Remember how upset your country was when the IDF soldier got caught forcing the Palestinian guy at the checkpoint to play his violin.  It mattered little that a dozen civilians may have died that same day.  However, that one soldier's actions is what reminded many of when the Nazis also forced concentration camp Jews to play music.  So please don't get all upset when your "burn Gaza" remark happened to remind me of other earlier calls for genocide.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do you really think we killed them for fun ? I mean, be sirouse for a couple of minutes, really.

What we think "let's pop some kids playing football, just for the fun of it ". I mean, really.

The Helicopter was targetig a bunch of quassam rocket launchers {the dues that launch them}, the missle probably missed the target. I go nothing to say about it then "Shit happens" --> not that i'm happy about it or can understand the lose of the families.

The problem is the constant "Oh IDF couldn't do anything else, don't blame us, we did the only right thing. We just had a little missfire and some civies got hit instead of the target, shit happens, right?" excuses. If IDF and pro-israel people would just say that, yes, IDF fucked up big time and should try to be more careful next time, it would be much better. I mean, what would you think if Palestinians, after a suicide bomb in the middle of a Israeli shopping center, said "oh shit, we were supposed to hit that military camp somewhere around here. Our navigation skills isn't that good. Sorry, don't blame us..."

Quote[/b] ]Bernadotte, I allready explained, but you don't want to listen. We allways detain terrorist, and yes we detained those HAMAS parlament to show protest and also to show them that they cannot commence attack against Israeli military on Israeli Soild. It's like some Al-quida go bomb U.S. Army Camp somewhere in the U.S.A .

The problem is that detaining a big part of a legally elected goverment, without showing any proof of them being involved in terrorist activity is very suspicous. It's kinda like when USA invaded Iraq saying there was connections to Al-Quaida and there was shitloads of WMD there, and then they could prove neither. And when this happens just after the abduction of a Israeli soldier, it looks more like Israel is taking their own hostages, not detaining terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]Bernadotte, comparing what happening here with the hollocust, that is just low. this is not the same, I suggest you find some good encylopidias or online resoursec and read about it, ok man ?

I think he was refering to your statment to burn Gaza and bomb Libanon, which I got to agree with Bernadotte, it did sound like a desire for genocide.

Quote[/b] ]So you think if it involves the military it can't be genocide, huh?

lol, if military involvment meant it wasn't genocide, then there wasn't any genocide during WWII...well, actually, then there wouldn't really be much that could be called genocide.

[mp_phonix 0]

Donnervogel - liked the tone of the commenet, even thought I do not 100% agree with it.

Bernadotte - I strongly recommend that you will take an encyclopidia, find the turm "holocust", and just read.

[Garcia 0]

Lets see you comparing what happends in Israel after you will read the whole information in the link above. read it all, not part of it then quote me that, read all the info, then go and compare.

[i'm not pulling 'the nazi card", I just say that you should not comapre it to the holocust.]

Quote[/b] ]As you already know, that was in response to your "burn Gaza" rant. But you don't need me to compare the actions of the IDF to WWII. Your own countrymen are doing it all the time.

Quote[/b] ]I think he was refering to your statment to burn Gaza and bomb Libanon, which I got to agree with Bernadotte, it did sound like a desire for genocide.

He was not comparing Israels actions to holocaust, he was comparing what you seemed to want to holocaust, i.e he was saying that your statement about burning Gaza etc. sounded a lot like you wanted to get rid of all palestinians etc, which would be quite compareable to holocaust.

[deanosbeano 0]

yes and now we gonna bomb the shit out of them, the world will cry "hooooo Israel are civillian killers" and whole cycle starts again. nothing new.

In my opnion - burn Gaza, Artilary them to death, bomb them, screw them, the go to Lebanon and bomb the whole southern sector.

you are prepared to type this in a forum ,yet when people write the same type of crap hatred on awall ,of course your words are different but your sentements are the same.

Quote[/b] ]those graffiti are racist and who did it should be arrested, I din't say they don't.

thats just a tad hypocritical, i dont deny your right to be mad nor your country its right to "self defence".But it is a sad fact that one day soon you will be full of this hate and wont be sat next to your pc,venting it on forums.

[Daniel 0]

Good post Donnervogel.

[mp_phonix 0]

yes and now we gonna bomb the shit out of them, the world will cry "hooooo Israel are civillian killers" and whole cycle starts again. nothing new.

In my opnion - burn Gaza, Artilary them to death, bomb them, screw them, the go to Lebanon and bomb the whole southern sector.

you are prepared to type this in a forum ,yet when people write the same type of crap hatred on awall ,of course your words are different but your sentements are the same.

Quote[/b] ]those graffiti are racist and who did it should be arrested, I din't say they don't.

thats just a tad hypocritical, i dont deny your right to be mad nor your country its right to "self defence".But it is a sad fact that one day soon you will be full of this hate and wont be sat next to your pc,venting it on forums.

yes whatever you say master

[Bernadotte 0]

Bernadotte - I strongly recommend that you will take an encyclopidia, find the turm "holocust", and just read.

Please tell me, mp_phonix, what is it that you think I need to know about the holocaust? The half of my family that survived it made sure we learned all that could be known about the Holocaust while we were growing up.

[Messiah 2]

Touche

[mp_phonix 0]

being sarcastic ? none of my family was in the holocust.

[Nemesis6 0]

I am so gonna nail you on that one. Where to start...?

Ok, first, the IDF did not ask that man to play his violin. The IDF initially claimed that they got the man to play the violin, to verify that it didn't contain explosives. Remember the Sbarros pizzeria bombing of 2001? The terrorist who carried out that attack used a guitar case for transporting the bomb. They did not force him. He did so on his on accord. Check the IDF's report for yourself - http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=23001

Nailed.

Looking forward to my weekly Zionist cheque, as always!

[Bernadotte 0]

Way to completely miss the point AGAIN, Nemesis6.

I couldn't care less if he was forced or not.  The fact remains that Israelis were all distressed by an incident that appeared to be (at least originally) very similar to a well known Holocaust event.  However, the day to day killing of innocent civilian Arabs results in far less public outcry.

Keep trying.  

[mp_phonix 0]

The one that should keep trying is you.

You are completly ignoring the facts. Terrorist used guitar case to transport explosives ===>>> orders to check everything, including violins.

Whats wrong with you ? it's like a person who cant read watch the picture and says "reminds me the holocust", and ignoring the situation in the pic.

[Garcia 0]

The one that should keep trying is you.

You are completly ignoring the facts. Terrorist used guitar case to transport explosives ===>>> orders to check everything, including violins.

Whats wrong with you ? it's like a person who cant read watch the picture and says "reminds me the holocust", and ignoring the situation in the pic.

Quote[/b] ]Remember how upset your country was when the IDF soldier got caught forcing the Palestinian guy at the checkpoint to play his violin. It mattered little that a dozen civilians may have died that same day. However, that one soldier's actions is what reminded many of when the Nazis also forced concentration camp Jews to play music. So please don't get all upset when your "burn Gaza" remark happened to remind me of other earlier calls for genocide.

Just try to understand what that sentance is all about...it got nothing to do with what really happened, what is important is the REACTION of the Israeli people when they THOUGHT the palestine guy was FORCED to play it. The fact that they thought the guy was forced made them upset, very upset, because that was what jews experienced during WWII.

You guys complain about certain people here not trying to understand what your saying...it seems it's the other way...

So actually, it seems it's Nemesis that have to keep trying...