The Middle East part 2

[Bernadotte 0]

Ask about the rule of employing children in war on the other side of the border. But that doesn't bother you. Hypocrite.

Oh dear.  Feel the paranoia!  In fact, let me help you.

The whole world along with their evil media organisations are out to get Israel.  I mean, why else would they be covering the story exactly as the Guardian did without any mention at all of this 13 year old girl actually being a terrorist operative.

I guess it ain't easy being you.      

[Bernadotte 0]

Did Balschoiw say Northern Gaza?

He said:

Quote[/b] ]5. It had no effect on missile attacks.

Who cares?  Your NYT quote wasn't about missiles.  It was about the number of Palestinians killed in the past 2 weeks.

[theavonlady 2]

Regardless of her religious beliefs, which in this context aren't much different than a christian (the whole go to heaven when you die and things are hunky dory).

Why don't you ask the Pope or your local priest if they advocate blowing up buses, restaurants, planes and hotels as a guaranteed ticket to heaven. You might leran something.

[theavonlady 2]

Did Balschoiw say Northern Gaza?

He said:

Quote[/b] ]5. It had no effect on missile attacks.

Who cares?

Obviously you did, by asking what Balschoiw said.

[theavonlady 2]

I mean, why else would they be covering the story exactly as the Guardian did without any mention at all of this 13 year old girl actually being a terrorist operative.

The Guardian, the UK bastion of the lunatic left?

Seek and ye shall find. From Reuters (but indeed mostly buried in the international press):

Quote[/b] ]Israeli Troops Probed for Killing Gaza Schoolgirl

By Dan Williams

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli troops who killed a Palestinian schoolgirl in the Gaza Strip are under investigation for riddling her with bullets although she proved to have posed no threat to them, military sources said on Monday.

Iman al-Hams, 13, was shot some 20 times on Oct. 5 as she walked past an Israeli military outpost en route to school in Rafah, a refugee camp on Gaza's border with Egypt that has seen frequent violence during a four-year-old Palestinian uprising.

"Israeli soldiers stormed the area, the girl left the bag and tried to run," Omar Abu Khalifa, 25, a Palestinian witness who lives nearby, told Reuters. "Bullets hit the (girl's) bag and then soldiers opened fire on the girl."

Military sources said Hams was shot after walking into an area marked with no-entry signs at a time of ongoing gunfire from Rafah.

Spotted about 230 feet away, the girl was mistaken for a militant and soldiers wrongly believed her book satchel may have contained a bomb, the military sources said.

"The soldiers fired warning shots into the air. The figure dropped the bag and fled. The soldiers had no way of knowing it was a girl. The soldiers then fired at and hit the figure," a military source said. "The outcome was grave and regrettable."

Israeli media, quoting unnamed soldiers at the scene, said the girl was shot at close range and that the outpost commander even delivered a "coup de grace" to ensure she was dead.

"There was a lot of shooting, but I did not take part. To me it (the figure fired at) looked like a girl," a soldier, whose identity was withheld, said on Channel 2 television.

A military source said a probe into Hams's death was under way but "it is too early to speak of criminal charges."

Tensions are high in the Gaza Strip as Israel gears up for a pullout from the occupied territory slated for next year.

Israeli forces stormed northern Gaza on Sept. 30 to crush militants firing rockets into the Jewish state, the biggest offensive there since the Palestinian revolt erupted in 2000.

Twelve days of clashes have claimed the lives of at least 92 Palestinians and three Israelis.

Lieutenant-General Moshe Yaalon, the chief of army staff, told Israeli ministers on Sunday that troops at the outpost believed the girl had been sent by Rafah militants to lure them outdoors so they could be picked off by snipers.

Human rights groups regularly accuse Israeli troops of excessive force against Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and say few abuses are prosecuted.

The Israeli army insists its troops behave ethically in the face of militants who often use suicide tactics, and says all abuse complaints are investigated.

Hams's family voiced little faith in the Israeli inquiry.

"We demand the prosecution of Iman's killer, (but) we do not trust the Israeli judicial system," the girl's older brother, Ehab, told Reuters. "My sister was an innocent little girl."

(Additional reporting by Nidal al-Mughrabi in Gaza)

It's obviously very easy to be you.

[Bernadotte 0]

Obviously you did, by asking what Balschoiw said.

Stop editing my post so that you can play dumb.  Um... You *are* playing aren't you?  

[theavonlady 2]

Obviously you did, by asking what Balschoiw said.

Stop editing my post so that you can play dumb.  Um... You *are* playing aren't you?  

It's plain and clear that I responded to what you asked. It's also relevant to Balschoiw flase claim that rocket attacks continue and the current operation has failed to impede them.

Enjoy your thread and lies. I have other things to do now.

[Bernadotte 0]

Avon, it is you who are posting lies.  For example, just look at the difference between the two versions of the same story you posted about an hour apart:

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Israeli media version:</span>

Quote[/b] ]Two Soldiers Back Up Commander´s Version

IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Yaalon told the Cabinet this week that the girl had been dispatched by terrorists as a decoy in order to draw out soldiers and turn them into targets for terrorist snipers.

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>International media version:</span>

Quote[/b] ]Israeli Troops Probed for Killing Gaza Schoolgirl

Lieutenant-General Moshe Yaalon, the chief of army staff, told Israeli ministers on Sunday that troops at the outpost believed the girl had been sent by Rafah militants to lure them outdoors so they could be picked off by snipers.

What did the General really say to the Israeli cabinet?

Who is telling the truth - the Israeli National News or Reuters?

Certainly not you if you are not able to see the difference between accusing the dead little girl of being a terrorist operative and merely stating that the soldiers involved believed she was an operative.

[Bernadotte 0]

Hurrah!!  Avon can celebrate the elimination of yet another terrorist operative while she was sitting at her school desk.

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Gaza schoolgirl dies of injuries</span>

A Palestinian schoolgirl has died of injuries received when she was struck by Israeli fire directed at her school in Gaza on Tuesday.  Ghadir Mokheimer was hit in the chest when troops opened fire towards the school. The Israelis said they returned fire after coming under mortar attack.

A schoolgirl from the same refugee camp in Khan Younis died last month after being shot in the head at her desk.

What I'd really like to know is how many Israeli soldiers have died from all these militant mortars and bullets that are supposed to be flying around, not to mention all the school bags packed with explosives.  While 102 Palestinians have lost their lives and several hundred injured has the Israeli military suffered even 1 casualty?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]What I'd really like to know is how many Israeli soldiers have died from all these militant mortars and bullets that are supposed to be flying around, not to mention all the school bags packed with explosives.  While 102 Palestinians have lost their lives and several hundred injured has the Israeli military suffered even 1 casualty?

http//news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041013/wl_nm/mideast_violence_dc_4

Quote[/b] ]Israel Arrests Bombing Suspect, Kills 4 Militants

2 hours, 17 minutes ago   World - Reuters

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Israel dealt a double blow to the Palestinian Islamic group Hamas on Wednesday, arresting a West Bank leader held responsible for a twin suicide bus bombing that killed 16 and killing two militants in Gaza air strikes.

Two other militants were killed by a tank shell as armored Israeli forces thrust deep into the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya in an offensive against militants to pave the way for an Israeli withdrawal from the territory next year.

Imad al-Kawasme, Hamas's commander in the West Bank city of Hebron, was arrested by Israeli troops on suspicion of orchestrating Aug. 31 suicide attacks on two buses in the Israeli city of Beersheba, witnesses and Israel Army Radio said.

Kawasme is from a large Hebron clan Israel says has been heavily involved in Islamist militant attacks. A number of Kawasme men have been killed or arrested by Israeli forces over the course of a four-year-old Palestinian revolt.

Neighbors said Israeli troops who seized Imad al-Kawasme also demolished his family house.

Hamas claimed responsibility for the attacks in Beersheba. Israeli security officials said the two suicide bombers made their way from Hebron over the southern West Bank's unfenced boundary with Israel and on to Beersheva.

An 11-year-old Palestinian girl died of injuries a day after being hit by Israeli gunfire in a classroom at a U.N. school in south Gaza. A military source said troops had fired toward gunmen.

In Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza, Israeli troops shot dead a 16-year-old Palestinian while he was playing soccer, witnesses said. An Israeli military source said soldiers had suspected he had been planting a bomb and fired at him.

MILITANTS KILLED IN AIRSTRIKES

Two Israeli airstrikes killed two Hamas militants in northern Gaza, where the army has been operating during its major offensive of northern Gaza aimed at rooting out gunmen who launch rockets into Israel.

Israel began the raid after two Israeli toddlers were killed in a rocket strike on the town of Sderot on September 29.

Ninety-seven Palestinians have been killed in 15 days of fighting. At least 55 of them were militants and most of the rest were believed to be civilians, Palestinian medics say. Israel says the vast majority of Palestinian dead were gunmen.

Three Israelis and a Thai worker have also been killed.

Another Hamas militant was killed in an earlier Israeli missile strike in north Gaza. The attacks were part of the army's biggest Gaza offensive in four years of conflict.

Israel sent additional forces into Beit Lahiya, which it said was the origin of the latest wave of rocket launches. Militants fired three rockets into southern Israel on Wednesday.

A new custom-built early warning radar installed in Sderot passed its first live test on Wednesday, alerting residents 20 seconds ahead to incoming Qassam rockets in time for them to take cover, officials said.

Hamas, an Islamic group sworn to Israel's destruction, vowed to upgrade its makeshift rockets and keep firing them despite the new radar system and a two-week-old Israeli offensive intended to suppress such attacks.

"God willing, they (rockets) will reach further, deep into the Zionist entity," Hamas said in a statement.

(Additional reporting by Dan Williams and Corinne Heller in Jerusalem and Haitham Tamimi in Hebron)

So it goes,

Billybob2002

[Bernadotte 0]

Are you trying to prove that no Israeli soldiers have been killed during this recent operation?  

Your article certainly doesn't mention any.

Or are you disputing the Washington Post's claim that 102 Palestinians have been killed in Northern Gaza alone?  

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Are you trying to prove that no Israeli soldiers have been killed during this recent operation?

Your article certainly doesn't mention any.

Three Israeli have been killed....

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Three Israeli have been killed....

Terrorists, evil-doers ! As they were not with the military they got to be terrorists !

They certainly worked for the enemy !

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Are you trying to prove that no Israeli soldiers have been killed during this recent operation?  

Your article certainly doesn't mention any.

Three Israeli have been killed....

And if only those Israeli civilians would have opened fire on anything that moves the way the Israeli military does then they wouldn't have suffered any casualties either.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]And if only those Israeli civilians would have opened fire on anything that moves the way the Israeli military does then they wouldn't have suffered any casualties either.

I think three israeli soldiers were killed....

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]And if only those Israeli civilians would have opened fire on anything that moves the way the Israeli military does then they wouldn't have suffered any casualties either.

I think three israeli soldiers were killed....

And why do you think that?  

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]And why do you think that?

I'm really confused now.... you said

Quote[/b] ]And if only those Israeli civilians would have opened fire on anything that moves the way the Israeli military does then they wouldn't have suffered any casualties either.

I said

Quote[/b] ]I think three israeli soldiers were killed....

[Bernadotte 0]

I think three israeli soldiers were killed....

link?  

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]link?

Erm... I said I think three israeli soldiers..... because three israelis were killed....

[Bernadotte 0]

Erm... I said I think three israeli soldiers..... because three israelis were killed....

The 3 Isreali casualties, all occurring more than 2 weeks ago, were a settler, military paramedic and soldier.

[Acecombat 0]

Leader Can't Find Flak Jacket to Fit Girth

Hehe this belongs in the ME thread i guess

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....east_dc

Quote[/b] ]

Peres: Sharon Risks Assassination for Gaza Plan

31 minutes ago World - Reuters

By Matt Spetalnick

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Opposition leader Shimon Peres said on Tuesday he feared Israeli extremists might try to assassinate Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites), the target of growing far-right fury over a planned withdrawal from Gaza next year.

Peres, head of the center-left Labor party, said the divisive atmosphere recalled the climate when Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (news - web sites) was killed in 1995 by an ultra-nationalist Jew opposed to his peace deals with the Palestinians.

"I am very fearful of the incitement, of the harsh things that are being said," Peres, Israel's leading dove and a key supporter of Sharon's pullout plan, told the daily Maariv.

"I fear that someone will try to assassinate the prime minister," he was quoted as saying.

Jewish settlers in occupied Gaza and the West Bank once saw Sharon as their champion but now brand him a traitor. Settler leaders boycotted a meeting with the prime minister aimed at calming tensions over his "disengagement" plan.

The snub came a day after Sharon faced rebellious lawmakers of his own rightist Likud who warned the party could split unless he put the pullout plan to a national referendum. Sharon bought time by agreeing to a task force to consider the matter.

Adding to Sharon's troubles, leading right-wing rabbis have begun urging soldiers to refuse orders to dismantle settlements built on land Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

In response, the army is planning to build a mock settlement at a desert base to train troops to remove settlers who may barricade themselves inside homes and synagogues or even resist violently, the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper said.

Security has been tightened around Sharon while police investigate a series of telephone death threats. Posters have been freshly plastered around Jerusalem accusing Sharon of "tearing the people apart."

Avraham Dichter, head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, said in July there were Jewish extremists who wanted to see Sharon dead and were backed by dozens opposed to the Gaza plan.

POLLS SHOW PUBLIC SUPPORT

Sharon's U.S.-backed blueprint calls for removing all 21 settlements in Gaza and four of 120 enclaves in the West Bank by the end of 2005 to "disengage" from conflict with Palestinians.

Most Israelis favor giving up Gaza's heavily fortified settlements, but far-right opponents call it a "reward for terrorism" after four years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Palestinians see it as a ruse to keep much of the West Bank.

Some settler leaders have raised the specter of violent resistance and even of civil war if Sharon goes ahead with evacuation. But such warnings have sparked outrage across the political spectrum and threats of prosecution for incitement.

Even with his ruling coalition on shaky ground, Sharon has vowed to keep to his timetable for bringing the principles of his plan to parliament next Monday for a debate and a crucial vote. He expects to win approval with Labor's support.

Sharon has opposed calls for a referendum, believing it would delay withdrawals beyond 2005.

Giora Eiland, Sharon's national security adviser, said the 8,000 Gaza settlers slated for evacuation would have until next July to accept government compensation and move out, or else face forcible eviction by September.

He repeated Israel's vow to demolish settler homes before leaving but said the fate of public buildings and industrial complexes would depend on whether an international "third party" stepped forward to play a role in any handover to Palestinians.

"We don't want an Israeli school (in a settlement) to turn into a Hamas academy," he told Israel Radio, referring to the Islamic militant group sworn to Israel's destruction.

(Additional reporting by Allyn Fisher-Ilan in Jerusalem)

[Bernadotte 0]

Last year:

An Israeli friend told me that Israeli society has become so socio-politically fragmented that if it weren't for the Palestinian conflict there would probably be a civil war.

Today:

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>Israel warns of civil war risk</span>

By Dan Williams

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's justice minister has warned that far-right rabbis who urge soldiers to disobey orders to evacuate Jewish settlements in Gaza were flirting with civil war and could face prosecution.

...

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]A schoolgirl riddled with bullets. And no one is to blame

Questions remain after Israeli unit commander is cleared of Palestinian pupil's death

Chris McGreal in Rafah

Thursday October 21, 2004

The Guardian

The undisputed facts are these: it was broad daylight, 13-year-old Iman al-Hams was wearing her school uniform, and when she walked into the Israeli army's "forbidden zone" at the bottom of her street she was carrying her satchel. A few minutes later the short, slight child was pumped with bullets. Doctors counted at least 17 wounds and said much of her head was destroyed.

Beyond that there is little agreement between the army top brass and Palestinian witnesses as to how Iman came to die last week, or even among members of the military unit responsible for killing the child in Gaza's Rafah refugee camp.

Palestinian witnesses described the shooting as cold-blooded. They say soldiers could not have failed to see they were firing at a child, and she was killed as she already lay wounded and helpless.

"Some soldiers were lying on the ground and shooting very heavily toward her," said Basim Breaka, who saw the killing from her living room. "Then one of the soldiers walked to her and emptied his clip into her. For sure she died on the second or third bullet. I could see her lying on the ground, not moving. I can't imagine why that soldier wanted to shoot her after she was dead."

This week an army investigation cleared the unit's commander after some of his own soldiers accused him of giving the order to shoot knowing the target was a young girl, and of then emptying the clip of his automatic rifle into her.

Full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1332153,00.html

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Investigation into the incident in which a 13 year-old girl was killed near an outpost on the Israeli-Egyptian border

Friday 15/10/2004 17:53

Chief of Staff today concludes the investigation into the incident of October 5th 2004

Today, October 15, 2004, investigation regarding the killing of a Palestinian girl on October 5th, led by the GOC Southern Command Major General Dan Harel, was presented to the chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Ya'lon .

The chief of Staff was presented with the comprehensive investigation which examined the details of the incident from both professional and ethical aspects. In parallel, a military police investigation into the matter is continuing.

On October 5th 2004 an IDF force stationed at a post on the Israeli Egyptian border near Rafah, spotted a suspicious figure approaching the post which was under a concrete security alert. Several hours earlier, Palestinian gunmen had opened fire at the post which comes daily under attacks. The figure, carrying a bag suspected as booby-trapped, was moving in a prohibited area right near the outpost, far from the Palestinian neighborhoods. The forces, suspecting the figure was a gunmen, opened fire at the figure and hit it.

A squad led by the company commander left the post to confront the suspected gunmen, and shot the figure which was then identified as a girl. Simultaneously, the force was fired upon from the Rafah area; a weapon belonging to one of the soldiers was hit by the fire. The force returned fire and retreated to the post.

The investigation found fault with the operational performance, in that the figure was not spotted earlier, in the quad leaving the post and in the operational judgment used due to the threats in the area.

Following the serious allegations regarding the company commander's functioning, his behavior and action were investigated closely.

The investigation did not fined that the company or the company commander had acted unethically during the incident. When the company commander was approaching the suspicious figure he noticed bullets at his side and shot towards the ground as he moved back.

The investigation concluded that the behavior of the company commander from an ethical point of view does not warrant his removal from his position. If a military police investigation will find otherwise he will be relieved from of any command duty.

Nonetheless, the investigation found failures in the company commander's ability to command and in his relations with his subordinates. Due to this failures the company commander was suspended from his position, and his future carrier in the IDF will be decided upon in course of the next week

The chief of staff concluded that he acknowledged the gravity of the incident in which a 13 year old girl was killed. The chief of Staff emphasized that the presence of the girl in a prohibited area was suspect.

It should be noticed that children have been used by terrorist organizations to expose soldiers to fire by Palestinian gunmen or to test possible ways to infiltrate IDF outposts. The circumstances of the event combined with the fact that the outpost had come under fire during the night strongly indicates such a scenario.

The chief of staff at present accepts the company commander's version of events whereby he fired to the ground in response to fire opened in his direction. Taken into consideration the conditions around the outpost the Chief of Staff presently accepts the company commander's version, unless proven otherwise. If the company commander's version will be proven otherwise, he will be barred from any command position in the IDF.

The Chief of Staff ordered to distribute the investigation in order to present it to all operational units and in IDF courses.