The Middle East part 2

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Jesus, Bilibob, you are active 24/7 RESPECT!

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Jesus, Bilibob, you are active 24/7 RESPECT!

erm...just killing some time before class starts....

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]That is some bullshit because the jewish "vote" has majority of the time voted a clear majority for the dems...

So ?

US political parties fight for Jewish votes

Quote[/b] ]The typical politics of America's Jewish community is easy to caricature: Roosevelt-loving, New Deal Democrats.

The caricature blurs the community's complexity but nevertheless, in the 2000 presidential election, Al Gore won 80% of the Jewish vote.

But could it be a different story this time around?

Highlighting its strong support of Israel since coming to office, the Bush re-election campaign is making a determined effort to woo the votes of a section of the electorate that it has previously given up on.

Key swing voters

America's Jewish population is small in number - only about six million people or 2% of the population.

But they have electoral clout because they live in America's handful of swing states.

Most observers agree that the United States is currently congealing politically into two equal halves, so the battle to switch political allegiances in a small number of key states is intense.

With its 537-vote margin in President Bush's favour last time, Florida is again likely to play a decisive role in November.

And that is why the Jewish vote is suddenly in play.

South Florida has the second largest Jewish population centre in the United States after New York, and is the focus of the Republican Party's efforts to win over Jewish voters.

Two months ago Dick Cheney was despatched to Florida to speak to the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County, and over the next few months more high-profile Republican visits to the Jewish community are planned.

Republicans focus on Israel

Over breakfast at a Boca Raton diner, Sid Dinerstein, the chair of the Palm Beach County Republican Party, explains that his mission is to double the number of Republican-voting Jewish people in November's election.

"Even if it went from 20% to 30%", he says, "then at 9am flat, this state will be called for President Bush."

Brian Crowley, the political editor of the Palm Beach Post, has recognised the new determination of the Republican Party to win over Jewish Democrats.

And he believes their efforts are being assisted by the changing demographic of Florida's Jewish population, as younger, wealthier Jewish people move in from the Midwest.

These voters have less political fidelity to the Democratic Party than the traditional East Coast-born community.

Central to the Republicans' campaign is the message that the interests of Israel will be better looked after by a re-elected President Bush.

In post-9/11 America, their argument goes that the US government and Israel now face a common enemy and must approach it in the same way.

The implication: The Democratic Party will be weaker on Israel.

Challenges for the Republicans

State Representative Adam Hasner, the head of Jewish Outreach for the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida, is adamant that it is right to politicise the issue of Israel in the coming election.

"I believe [the voters] should be looking at Israel as the top priority", Mr Hasner says. "Because without Israel, the Jewish community in Florida ceases to exist."

The middle-aged New Yorkers at Poppy's restaurant in Boca Raton still typify Florida's Jewish community. There was not much enthusiasm evident for the Republicans' message.

"If the Democrats get in, they will back Israel just as the Republicans do" was the common view.

There was also some annoyance at the view that Israel had to be the number one issue of concern for Florida's Jewish voters.

"It has nothing to do with Israel. I'll vote for the best person," said one diner.

Others were sure that Jewish voters will continue to vote according to their pocket-books, domestic issues and tradition.

It is a view shared by Steve Rabinowitz, a Democratic pollster, who is confident that as soon as John Kerry's support of Israel is recognised, attention will switch back to domestic concerns and the Democrats will again sweep up the Jewish vote.

Yet the Republican Party does believe that this election is different and are chasing the Jewish vote with an energy that they have not done before.

If the confidence of Steve Rabinowitz turns out to be misplaced, the Democrat Party might have unwelcome difficulty in getting out what should be a core part of their electoral base in Florida and other key states.

Bullshit right ?

Or better say billyshit ?    

Quote[/b] ]Stick to Reuters and not Al-piece of crap or use less "bias" news links from Al-piece of crap...

Funny to hear this from you as you are very well known for your unbiased sources....memos on terrorist attacks anyone ?

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]They, moreover, fear that Sharon might feel free to do as he pleases while Bush is busy with his re-election campaign, where he is in bad need of the Jewish votes,

That is some bullshit because the jewish "vote" has majority of the time vote a clear majority for the dems...

Most Arab media avoids mentioning Israel because most Arab states have not yet recognised Israel.  If that weren't the case then Al-Jazeera would more likely have said "pro-Israel" votes, which is increasingly becoming a very different thing than "Jewish" votes.  We all know how blindly Bush's big right-wing Christian base loves Israel.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Israel: Thanks to the U.S., Palestinian state is ruled out

Love the title... want to inflame things....

The Reuters headline is no less inflamatory and no less true if we can believe what Weisglass said.

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, Al-piece of crap forgot to mention this....

Quote[/b] ]Weisglass told Israel Radio later he did not mean Israel would never negotiate with Palestinians, only that it would not do so until they "wipe out terror." Otherwise, he said, a Palestinian state would only endanger Israel.

Israel's Ha'aretz didn't mention it either.  Does that make them crap too?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Bush declared that Palestinians could not expect to obtain statehood unless they stamp out militant attacks on Israel.

And why doesn't Bush deny the Iraqis statehood until they stamp out militant attacks against their occupiers?

Quote[/b] ]Stick to Reuters not Al-piece of crap...

You know very well that I did not refer to Al-Jazeera for its content.

[kerosene 0]

"al-piece of crap" also call arab governments on human rights violations, a free press that can say what it wants is a part of democracy and necessary for reform in the middle east.

Are they any more nationalistic than a right wing tabloid from any where else in the world? Are they really any worse than Fox news? When Bill O'reilly states that people in Afghanistan are collectivley responsible and that there infrastructure should be destryoed and their people starved in retaliation for 9-11 since the people choose their government (convientently ignoring years of bloody civil-war by people trying to do just that.)

If an Al-jezerra journalist made a comprable statement about Americans or Israelis, the uproar would be deafening.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The Reuters headline is no less inflamatory and no less true if we can believe what Weisglass said.

Lets compare the titles...

Quote[/b] ]Israel: Palestinian State Shelved with U.S. Blessing

hmm.. A Palestinian State is not going to happen at this point (shelved).

Quote[/b] ]

Israel: Thanks to the U.S., Palestinian state is ruled out

Palestinian state is never going to happen (ruled out) because of the US.

Quote[/b] ]Bullshit right ?

Or better say billyshit ?

We will see when the election happens..

Quote[/b] ]

And why doesn't Bush deny the Iraqis statehood until they stamp out militant attacks against their occupiers?

Unlike the Palestinians, the iraqis are actually trying to stamp out the militants...

Quote[/b] ]Israel's Ha'aretz didn't mention it either.  Does that make them crap too?

erm... Which news center is the arab world is going look at... Ha'aretz or Al-J...

Quote[/b] ]Funny to hear this from you as you are very well known for your unbiased sources....memos on terrorist attacks anyone ?

memo on terrorist attacks......

Quote[/b] ]When Bill O'reilly states that people in Afghanistan are collectivley responsible and that there infrastructure should be destryoed and their people starved in retaliation for 9-11 since the people choose their government (convientently ignoring years of bloody civil-war by people trying to do just that.)

Got a link?

[kerosene 0]

I could only find links in blogs and journals (ill post em if you want) I also found this:

Bill O' Reilly, leading news commentator on Fox TV stated:

"I don't have any respect by and large for the Iraqi people at all. I have no respect for them. I think that they're a prehistoric group that is - yeah, there's excuses. Sure, they're terrorized, they've never known freedom, all of that. There's excuses. I understand.But I don't have to respect them because you know when you have Americans dying trying to, you know institute some kind of democracy there, and two percent of the people appreciate it, you know, it's time to - time to wise up. The big lesson is that we cannot intervene using ground troops in the Muslim world ever again. What we can do, is bomb the living daylights out of them, just like we did in the Balkans. Bomb the living daylights out of them. But no more ground troops, no more hearts and minds; ain't going to work They're just people who are primitive."

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_11439.shtml

O'Reilly commented: "Problems continue for the U.S. Military in Fallujah. Why doesn't the U.S. Military just go ahead and level it?" He made it clear he doesn't "care about the people of Fallujah" and that "we know what the final solution should be." - does he understand the significance of those words?

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/062204Wheeler/062204wheeler.html

Unfortunatley Fox dont amke transcripts freely available..

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israel: Palestinian State Shelved with U.S. Blessing

hmm.. A Palestinian State is not going to happen at this point (shelved).

You are intentionally ignoring a very significant part of the headline.

...Not that I really expected a more intelligent tactic from you.

Quote[/b] ]Unlike the Palestinians, the iraqis are actually trying to stamp out the militants...

Perhaps if the US wrapped it's border around Iraq and started constructing vast American settlements there the Iraqis would be rather less enthusiastic about fighting alongside US forces.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Israel's Ha'aretz didn't mention it either.  Does that make them crap too?

erm... Which news center is the arab world is going look at... Ha'aretz or Al-J...

Once again, how racist of you to hold Arab media to a higher standard than Israeli media.

Or maybe you just live in a world where it's ok to pick and choose facts according to who the readers are.

[Bernadotte 0]

Bill O' Reilly, leading news commentator on Fox TV stated:

Quote[/b] ]"...The big lesson is that we cannot intervene using ground troops in the Muslim world ever again. What we can do, is bomb the living daylights out of them..."

Sure Bill.  The next time the US should save people from a brutal dictator by just bombing the living daylights out of them.

Great idea.      

[EiZei 0]

And they call far-left people lunatics and crazies.

[Balschoiw 0]

Does that ring a bell billyboy ?

Or have you had a lobotomy lately ?

Quote[/b] ]Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties

By Scott Wheeler

CNSNews.com Staff Writer

October 04, 2004

I guess you are not really the one to tell others what is biased or not.

In fact you disqualified yourself with the above article from even mentioning the word "biased" here...

Good laughter though.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Does that ring a bell billyboy ?

Or have you had a lobotomy lately ?

erm....

Quote[/b] ]Funny to hear this from you as you are very well known for your unbiased sources....memos on terrorist attacks anyone ?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Once again, how racist of you to hold Arab media to a higher standard than Israeli media.

Or maybe you just live in a world where it's ok to pick and choose facts according to who the readers are.

Erm... Al-J. is "the" news source for the arab world.... they should be hold to a high standard and should not inject BS in to their work... how racist of you....well, this racist is going to be having some your post count in less than a month...

Quote[/b] ]

You are intentionally ignoring a very significant part of the headline.

...Not that I really expected a more intelligent tactic from you.

How I'm ignoring it? You said that the Reuters headline is no less inflamatory that Al-J. and it is not... Al-J. headline is more inflamatory.. Like certain people say that TBA sometime indirectly (sneaky) put Iraq with 9/11....Al-J. story is indirectly telling the arab world that the US does not want a pal. state and that is not the truth...

[Balschoiw 0]

I have to assume you´re playing dumb billybob.

Only to make it an easy thing for you:

1. You posted a story that was absolutely bullshit from a source that is absolutely bullshit.

2. You accuse others of posting biased news from biased sources.

3. An actual read into your source that you posted in Iraq thread shows you that it deals about MEMOS! And it furthermore shows that the story is absolutely bullshit and the source is a rightwing club of Clinton haters.

4. Now you play stupid with all your "erm.." and "..." and silly smilies.

That won´t save you from facing the fact that you absolutely have no right to tell anyone what is biased or not as you are the outstanding example of a guy, who posts or quotes stories that are so far beyond reality that even Micky Mouse would have it´s doubts in Disneyland.

Either you start to act like a grown up and stand for your errors and learn from them or you drift into a position where noone will take you serious anymore.

Content is not made with "erm..." and "...." it´s facts that count. And running around screaming "biased" "biased" with a red head doesn´t really fit a guy who posts biased and brainwashed stories as often as you do.

Got it now ?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]3. An actual read into your source that  you posted  in Iraq thread shows you that it deals about MEMOS! And it furthermore shows that the story is absolutely bullshit and the source is a rightwing club of Clinton haters.

I simply did not know what the hell you were talking about.

Quote[/b] ]

3. An actual read into your source that  you posted  in Iraq thread shows you that it deals about MEMOS!

So, terrorist attack memos is same has WMD/terror link memos?

Quote[/b] ]2. You accuse others of posting biased news from biased sources.

This is kind of funny because you like to point that I use bias links but something Bernadotte post is bias, you shut-up... Also, I still remember that chopped up story you posted about Israel-kurds..

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]This kind of funny because you like to point that I use bias links but something Bernadotte post is bias, you shut-up...

I would like to share your humour but I could not find bias in Bernadottes posts , as he only pointed towards the two articles. I could not see bias in his post, while I can see it clearly in yours.

Quote[/b] ]I simply did not know what the hell you were talking about.

Yeah yeah...sure...3 days is a long time for a human brain to remember things, I know...especially if they are not that pleasant. But hey you´re lucky, a fly only remembers the last 0.7 seconds of it´s life.

Quote[/b] ]Also, I still remember that chopped up story you posted about Israel-kurds..

You do what ? Chopped up story ? It was about assumed Israeli commandos operating in Iraq , the western Iraq especially. I still stand by that.

Quote[/b] ]U.S., Israel Conducting Covert Missions

Israeli commando forces are reportedly operating in western Iraq where their mission could include creating a provocation to kick-start a war.

Exclusive to American Free Press

By Christopher Bollyn

Israeli special forces are already in western Iraq, reportedly pinpointing locations where Iraqi missile launchers may be positioned, according to the Associated Press. While foreign news outlets have reported this explosive story, the controlled U.S. mass media is not talking.

“While politicians and media are discussing the prospect of war with Iraq, the Israelis are taking action,†AP wrote. “Israeli special forces are already operating reconnaissance patrols in western Iraq. These operations are carried out secretly by Israel’s best-trained commandos, the ‘Sayeret Matkal.’ Their mission: to find and identify places used by, or likely to be used by, Iraqi Scud missile-launchers.â€

Sayeret Matkal is also known as the General Staff Reconnaissance Unit and belongs to the intelligence branch of the Israeli military. The unit was formed in 1957 to carry out top-secret intelligence gathering missions behind enemy lines.

Meir Dagan, the new director of Mossad, Israel’s military intelligence agency, made a secret trip to Washington recently to improve military cooperation between the United States and Israel during the planned strike against Iraq, reported Jane’s Foreign Report on Sept. 24.

Dagan proposed that Israeli special forces carry out ground operations within Iraq before the main attack, it said.

U.S., Israel Conducting Covert Missions

You seem to forget that I work for the military and sometimes have access to papers you won´t find in your public library....

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You do what ? Chopped up story ? It was about assumed Israeli commandos operating in Iraq , the western Iraq especially. I still stand by that.

Not this story but the one about the Kurds being trained by the Israelis in Iraq to go in to Iran. The person who ever did that story hacked up the original New Yorker article to fit his "view" or something...

Quote[/b] ]

Yeah yeah...sure...3 days is a long time for a human brain to remember things, I know...especially if they are not that pleasant. But hey you´re lucky, a fly only remembers the last 0.7 seconds of it´s life.

Again, how is terrorist attacks memos is the same has WMD/Terror link memos. I know they are memos but...

Quote[/b] ]

I would like to share your humour but I could not find bias in Bernadottes posts , as he only pointed towards the two articles. I could not see bias in his post, while I can see it clearly in yours.

I said the link was bias not him.

[kerosene 0]

Billybob, any right leaning news network would fail the test you hold al-jezera up to, certainly any that has editorals.

If the U.S wants a palestenian state at this point, they look like they want a pretty crappy, emaciated version of what was until fairly recently envisoned. Has Bush pressed the Israelis in any meaningful way, other than saying that the Palestenians should no longer have any say in what constitutes that state.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]If the U.S wants a palestenian state at this point, they look like they want a pretty crappy, emaciated version of what was until fairly recently envisoned. Has Bush pressed the Israelis in any meaningful way, other than saying that the Palestenians should no longer have any say in what constitutes that state.

Quote[/b] ]Bush declared that Palestinians could not expect to obtain statehood unless they stamp out militant attacks on Israel.

No militant attacks=Bush "truly" (he does want one but not now) supports a Palestinian state.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The person who ever did that story hacked up the original New Yorker article to fit his "view" or something...

Huh ? Would you be so kind and dig it up ? As you come up with this claim I am sure you can back it up.

Quote[/b] ]I know they are memos but...

..but you fail to put that into context with an article posted by YOU 3 days ago. I don´t think we talked about other memos for the last 3 days, did we ?

20.28

Quote[/b] ]but something Bernadotte post is bias, you shut-up...

Your quote, now

20.51

Quote[/b] ]I said the link was bias not him.

this quote, also from you.

Can you decide what you think before you post or do we have to play the game of you not remembering what you posted again ?

23 minutes...

[kerosene 0]

It bears pointing out though, that if Israel kills Palestenian cops in retaliation for failures to prevent terrorism, and if their own, highly regarded armed forces are unable to stop the attacks, how will the palestenians do this fully?

If the Israeli retaliation and targeted assasinations make minimal effort to avoid civilian casualties they'll always be a fresh supply of enraged palestenians anyway.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Can you decide what you think before you post or do we have to play the game of you not remembering what you posted again ?

23 minutes...

Me:

Quote[/b] ]Stick to Reuters and not Al-piece of crap or use less "bias" news links from Al-piece of crap...

Also, use the whole sentence....

Quote[/b] ]you like to point that I use bias links but something Bernadotte post is bias, you shut-up

I was talking about the link...

Quote[/b] ]..but you fail to put that into context with an article posted by YOU 3 days ago. I don´t think we talked about other memos for the last 3 days, did we ?

Terrorists-attack memos..

Quote[/b] ]

Huh ? Would you be so kind and dig it up ? As you come up with this claim I am sure you can back it up.

It should be in Iraq thread 2 or 3 ....I willing to put my hand on bible that it is in there....Just too much junk to look through...

[Bernadotte 0]

Al-J. story is indirectly telling the arab world that the US does not want a pal. state and that is not the truth...

Try and get a grip son!!

The Senior Aid of the Israeli PM said, "The Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. ... All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."

Why not take a moment to consider what Sharon's aid has said directly before casting judgement on what Al-J has said indirectly?  No need to read between Al-J's lines when the aid's lines are bad enough.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]It should be in Iraq thread 2 or 3 ....I willing to put my hand on bible that it is in there....Just too much junk to look through...

Then don´t come up with a claim you can´t back up.

I certainly would remember

Quote[/b] ]The person who ever did that story hacked up the original New Yorker article to fit his "view" or something...

this. Back up your claims. Otherwise don´t make such claims.

For the rest of your post. You like to run in circles ? Well here we go again. Get aboard the funny billybob riverboard of trying to talk someone to death. As I´m really too lazy to repeat me all over until you get it I wiull quote myself:

Quote[/b] ]1. You posted a story that was absolutely bullshit from a source that is absolutely bullshit.

2. You accuse others of posting biased news from biased sources.

3. An actual read into your source that  you posted  in Iraq thread shows you that it deals about MEMOS! And it furthermore shows that the story is absolutely bullshit and the source is a rightwing club of Clinton haters.

4. Now you play stupid with all your "erm.." and "..." and silly smilies.

That won´t save you from facing the fact that you absolutely have no right to tell anyone what is biased or not as you are the outstanding example of a guy, who posts or quotes stories that are so far beyond reality that even Micky Mouse would have it´s doubts in Disneyland.

Now I will watch City of god and have a nice Caipirinha !

Cheers !    

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Try and get a grip son!!

The Senior Aid of the Israeli PM said, "The Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. ... All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."

Why not take a moment to consider what Sharon's aid has said directly before casting judgement on what Al-J has said indirectly?  No need to read between Al-J's lines when the aid's lines are bad enough.

BOY!!! Where is this ratification of both houses of Congress line?

and

Quote[/b] ]Weisglass told Israel Radio later he did not mean Israel would never negotiate with Palestinians, only that it would not do so until they "wipe out terror." Otherwise, he said, a Palestinian state would only endanger Israel.