AI Runways

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]...Could this also enable stuff like beach/field C130 landings, WWII gliders, Harriers/Viggen operating from roads etc?

Yeah, as long as you have enough room for the approach. Crash landings and emergency landings to. Never seen any WW2 Gliders in OFP yet? although there are a few screen shots kicking about.

Quote[/b] ]I haven't tried them in a long time, but I don't recall having any problems with seeing them in the mission editor.

Thats ok if they dont, I can fix that. I can use the flight deck crew as is for now, for a manned version of the Nimitz I have. But any custom made anims would be great.

Quote[/b] ]Non-retracting gear has an effect on the flight model as the

OFP engine simulates the aerodynamic drag of the fixed gear

whether they are 'retracted' or not.

To me, it does not appear to be an obvious problem with most of the addons I tried? But there are probably ways around it using O2. I'm just glad there where enough addons setup, to allow me to exploit the idea.

But Hardrock is right, the Gear Actions do work. But not during landings

Quote[/b] ]What's the reason for wheelSteeringSensitivity =0 ?

It was a compromise over having to lock an aircrafts direction on unaligned runways. When set to zero, the aircraft will taxi in a straight line, without trying to turn off the runway and head towrds the ILS Position. This way I can release the direction lock early, and allow WWII style planes (Hmm.,,.Is there a techincal term that describes how an aircraft sits on its landing gear, relative to the horizon?) to roll up to the end of the runway properly. Although I'm not sure this is worth it?  As it does have side effects.

Cheers

[grunt249 0]

This way I can release the direction lock early, and allow WWII style planes (Hmm.,,.Is there a techincal term that describes how an aircraft sits on its landing gear, relative to the horizon?) to roll up to the end of the runway properly.

I think you mean Tail-dragger configuration, as compared to Tricycle configuration? Tail-drag mean the ground wheel is to the rear of the aircraft, such as the P-51, F-4U, etc. Tricycle gear is where the ground wheel is to the front, such as on a Cessna 172 or modern fighter jets like the F-16.

I've been playing around with these scripts, they are very cool. Able to do a lot of things that I couldn't before, keep up the great work

[Tomislav 0]

ATC BIS Aircaft

that link seems to be down

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think you mean Tail-dragger configuration

Yes, thats perferct. I could not think of a better term

Quote[/b] ]ATC BIS Aircaft

that link seems to be down

Cheers, fixed it now.

[Bobcatt666 0]

You forgot the other many carriers floating around like TARAWA, Midawy the Kusonov...

[Tomislav 0]

You forgot the other many carriers floating around like TARAWA, Midawy the Kusonov...

link for the Tarawa?

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]You forgot the other many carriers floating around like TARAWA, Midawy the Kusonov...

I have Midway, Kusonov and the Hermes (beta).

Bratty's Japanese WWII Carrier, the Kaga. The Falklands Mod has the invincible, along with Hermes. All three are still in the works. But I've never heard of the TARAWA?

If there is a link, even a beta, I would like to give it a try. I wanted to keep the Carriers as a seperate project, as each one has it's own perculiarities. There next on my list of things to do, along with multiple Taxi ways and automated hangers.

Cheers

[Bobcatt666 0]

The Tarawa is sooooooooooo old most of the dl links are no goodI'll have to email her to you. PM me..

I sent her off right after I crawled home from work, think its both verssions so check them one should be rescaled to propor size. Didn't remember which was so sent both. =P

[UNN 0]

Cheers Bobcatt666, Ive uploaded the latest version you sent to my site, if anyone else wants to take a look.

Tarawa.pbo

[Bobcatt666 0]

Might wanna give it a ATC tag just to not overwrite the orginal pbo?

[UNN 0]

Thats the same version you sent me, I've not had chance to start working on the carriers. I'ts just someone else wanted to see the addon, so it seemed easier to post a link.

If the original author is no longer kicking around? I will package the whole thing into one addon, that can be used with the ATC system or stand alone, without the ATC functionality.

Cheers

[Tomislav 0]

wasn't the original author opgwc, or is it made by another one?

[ag_smith 0]

Working Geo LOD would be nice for this one.

Also, keep in mind that Tarawa is not an aircraft carrier per se. It's used to launch choppers and Harriers.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Also, keep in mind that Tarawa is not an aircraft carrier per se. It's used to launch choppers and Harriers.

My O2 skills stretch to Geo LOD's, Cargo Proxies and Roadways. But thats about it. I did read somewhere, the British(?) idea for the ramp did help aircraft launch from carriers? But having recently seen some news footage of an A6 launching, it did not appear to have any problem flying, straight as an arrow, right off the deck.

All I really have to go on at the moment, are still photos of the Nimitz in operation. I can limit particular aircraft to certain runway types, by setting some classifications. But I thought it best to leave that to the discretion of the mission editor.

[UNN 0]

Hi,

Just added a couple of ATC addons for the OFPL AirPack and Gachopin's F22, plenty more new\updated aircraft to do and a few I missed first time around.

ATC_OFPL_Air

ATC_F22

If you dont have them already, you will need the originals to run the ATC versions:

OFPL AirPack version 1.0

F22 by Gachopin

Cheers

[Dallas 9]

Hi,

I was wondering if some of you can answer this old post?

Quote[/b] ]I've just re-installed OFP:R up to 1.96 to get some carrier time on the Nimitz. I'm embarrassed to confess that I forgot how amazing this game is.

I have no problems landing or taking off from the cataputls, but I noticed a 5 step check list to setting down the bird on the boat. I'm been trying to figure out what exactly to do to initiate every step, but I haven't had enough airtime to figure it out.

First I do a flyby, activate "land with line break" and then recieve this message:

-Prepairing to land ....

-landing azimut is 3.05176e-005 degree

-prepair to land

-go to point 1

Then I activate "Land on deck 3"

-prepair to land

I don't know how to activate point 1, but after a couple of minutes changing altitude and speed:

-landing speed was set on 161.373

-carrier deck hight was set on 46

-go to point 2

I manage to activate point 3, 4 and five through lowering gear, hook and flaps, but I haven't figured the exact routine out yet.

I know how to land on the carrier, but I'd like to master the five point program. Can anyone help me understand the lading script?

B.T.W This is a beautiful addon ty

[eddyd 0]

what about taxiways , unn ?

so we can make a missions with airbase somewhere on the map and that a plane taxi up taxiway to the runway

[Bobcatt666 0]

Tarawa is a fuly capable carrier, to lauch a jjet would use the full flight deck to get the plane airborne, AV8B and FA18 and a few other jet airccraft can launch from the Tarawa in reallife.

[UNN 0]

Hi,

Quote[/b] ]I was wondering if some of you can answer this old post?

Cant help you much there, but when I start updating the Nimitz I can certainly tell you exactly what you need to do to satisfy, the condition for point 1.

It would be nice to include some visual aids for players landing on carriers. But how that would work in OFP I'm not to sure.

Quote[/b] ]what about taxiways , unn ?

so we can make a  missions with airbase somewhere on the map and that a plane taxi up taxiway to the runway

Yeah, I'm still figuring out how to implement them with a new ATC_Airport class, as it's starts getting into the realm of proper Air Traffic Control. When you think about some of the airports on Gaia for example, you can have three runways each with taxiways intersecting one another.

Although they might take alot of setting up for some islands, and there are plenty of islands out there. So I dont know how many I will be able to support myself.

Perhaps someone in the know could advise me, if I'm missing something:

Aircraft taking off will lock the runway and prevent any other aircraft taxing across, bit obvious that one.

Aircraft landing will lock the runway and prevent any other aircraft taxing across, once it's within a certain range? If say it takes 60 seconds from the start of the approach to touchdown, and only 10 seconds for an aircraft to taxi across the runway. Then in theory I can get at least two aircraft to taxi across before it starts getting dangerous?

If you have more than one aircraft taxing to or from a runway, how far apart would they be?

Do aircraft taxi straight into hangers? I'm assuming commercial airlines don’t, but what about military? Do I taxi them to a holding area, and then leave it up the mission designer, to decide if they’re then to taxi into hangers. Or keep it simple and taxi everything straight into the hangers\holding areas (when available)?

For military aircarft, does where and when the taxi vary on the situation. Routine verses Combat missions e.t.c ?

They probably seem like naff questions, but I want to make sure I get most of right, frist time round.

@Bobcatt66

Thanks, I will set it up to use the full length of the deck. But not restrict the aircraft, that can launch from it.

Cheers

[AgentFox2 0]

Perhaps someone in the know could advise me, if I'm missing something:

Aircraft taking off will lock the runway and prevent any other aircraft taxing across, bit obvious that one.

Aircraft landing will lock the runway and prevent any other aircraft taxing across, once it's within a certain range? If say it takes 60 seconds from the start of the approach to touchdown, and only 10 seconds for an aircraft to taxi across the runway. Then in theory I can get at least two aircraft to taxi across before it starts getting dangerous?

Yes, I think this should work. If an aircraft is on final, you do not want anyone taxiing across its path. If it were on the downwind leg, or at the latest base leg, then I can imagine an aircraft being cleared to taxi across. This is, of course, assuming that there will be a traffic pattern simulated.

Quote[/b] ]If you have more than one aircraft taxing to or from a runway, how far apart would they be?

This can vary a lot, but I was taught to keep an aircraft's length between each aircraft when taxiing. Obviously this spacing can change depending on the size of the aircraft. A line of Boeing 707s would need a lot more room to maneuver than a bunch of Cessna 152s.

Quote[/b] ]Do aircraft taxi straight into hangers? I'm assuming commercial airlines don’t, but what about military? Do I taxi them to a holding area, and then leave it up the mission designer, to decide if they’re then to taxi into hangers. Or keep it simple and taxi everything straight into the hangers\holding areas (when available)?

As far as I know, aircraft are usually taxied to a ramp (holding area) first. If they need to be stored in a hangar, I believe that is done by the ground crew, using towing vehicles, after the post-flight procedures and shutdown. Many times you will see general aviation aircraft, like small recreational aircraft (e.g. Cessnas), parked on a large asphalt parking area, with their wings and tails secured by ropes to the concrete. (example image: Airliners.net Image) This is done to keep the plane from being dragged around by the wind.

I am not in the military, so perhaps someone else can correct me, but as far as I know most military aircraft are taxied to a ramp/holding area first, rather than directly taxied into a hangar. The ground crew does the post-flight checks and procedures, and then will tow the aircraft to the hangar if they need to.

As for how to do this in the script; since at the moment there is no such towing apparatus available, it would probably be best to just have the aircraft taxi to the next available spot on the ramp.

Best Regards

[ag_smith 0]

If you have more than one aircraft taxing to or from a runway, how far apart would they be?

From what you can see on busy international airports, the aircrafts on taxiway are spaced only like 300-400 meters apart (really close in fact...) since in peak hours they take off every 3 minutes from the same runway. But that's the case for large commercial liners, I'm not sure how it's gonna be for other planes.

[Dallas 9]

@UNN

Sorry about the OT.

Nimitz Carrier landing procedure:

Overfly the carrier and ativate 'land with line break' in the action menu.

-Point 1 is set 9.000 meters away from the carrier. Landing speed is a third of your current speed and the carrier hight 46.

-Point 2 at 6.000 meters.

-Point 3 at 2.000 meters.

-Point 4 at 1.500 meters, your speed will display in the vehicle channel.

[UNN 0]

I knocked this up using Mapfact Nogova's SW military airport,  to try and work out whats required. It's pretty rough diagram that assumes a capacity of only three aircraft. But it does server the purpose.

The yellow path is similar to the standard taxi path, for a quick turn around of aircraft. With the yellow boxes as reserved slots for the aircraft.

The black path is for taxiing to and from the Ramps, the red path for taxiing\moving to and from the hangers and ramps. The red boxes indicate which sections need to be locked to ensure no collisions on ground.

The black boxes are just the Ramps.

This is about as complicated as I want it to get. In theory once it's implemented, you could leave the scripts to work out which aircraft go where, depending on whats available at the time. But this could be considered overkill?

So I may just go with a stripped down version. For example if you where just running three aircraft in one group, you would never need to lock each section as thier timing would ensure they never collide. It's only relevant when you get more than one aircraft or group flying different missions, from the same airport.

This would also require more functions (I have just over a hundred already ):

[Plane01,Airport01] Call ATC_LandToHanger

[Plane01,Airport01] Call ATC_LandToHolding

[Plane01,Airport01] Call ATC_LandToTaxi (The yellow path)

[Plane01,Airport01] Call ATC_HangerToHolding

[Plane01,Airport01] Call ATC_HoldingToHanger

Quote[/b] ] The ground crew does the post-flight checks and procedures, and then will tow the aircraft to the hangar if they need to.

As for how to do this in the script; since at the moment there is no such towing apparatus available, it would probably be best to just have the aircraft taxi to the next available spot on the ramp.

Once the paths are laid out, I could simulate this for the AI given a suitable model for the towing apparatus. You would not need proper towing scripts, unless someone wanted to play the role of ground crew. I plan on using brute force to taxi the aircraft, as I want absolute control over the entire process. But yeah, in the mean time I will just move them to the holding area under their own steam.

Quote[/b] ]From what you can see on busy international airports, the aircrafts on taxiway are spaced only like 300-400 meters apart (really close in fact...)

I might just take the largest aircraft (Antonov?) and space them according to it's dimensions. Although it's probably better to give each aircraft a basic size definition as this could be used to determine what aircraft can land on a particular type of runway:

Sopwith....Cessna=ATC_SMALL

F16...Me109=ATC_MEDIUM

C130...Antonov=ATC_LARGE

And come up with some suitable dimensions for each class. But it will mean updating all the parameters of the ATC_Aircraft addons I've released.

Quote[/b] ]Sorry about the OT.

No worries, it's not completely off topic

Cheers

[cytosine 0]

I'm a helo guy, but nonetheless, I lived on an airfield for 4 years in the Army, so hear's my 2 cents....

Military hangers are not usually used for storage or parking aircraft, they are for scheduled/unscheduled maintenance activities, especially at the busy airports where hangar space is considered expensive real-estate and aircraft are "parked" only on the tarmac or flight line (depending on your vocabulary!) So, yes, ground crews usually push them in with hand-trucks or tow them with GSE via tugs, or HMMWV's (I'll check my old hangar pics to see if I have any good examples!) We used a five ton once to push a Blackhawk into a hanger, only because we were lazy bastards. It didn't need to be done that way, but what the hell, we were bored and our circa 1952 tug was broke!

For birds with wheeled landing gear a hand-truck or tow bar are essential for turning the aircraft while the crew pushes. Huey's can slide, but usually are mounted on a four wheel carraige assembly, then hand pushed. Blackhawk's have an aft wheel on a yoke that can be unlocked and turned via hand-truck or pushed/pulled with a skilled tug/hmmwv driver, much the same way fixed wing guys do from their pivoting landing gear assembly (both fore and aft). I know your more interested in fixed wing planes, but it's a similary technique.

Has a pilot ever powered his craft into a hangar even though it's not supposed to be done? You betcha!!! Pilot's are meat-heads, plain and simple! Living dangerously is why their scrotes dropped in the first place. Are they sposed to and is it a good idea, NO!!!! :~)

From a reality stand-point, I'd say no, don't power the aircraft into hangers since it's not really supposed to be done that way. The high temperature engines need to cool first before going into an area laden with flammable materials and waste. Plus, the US military being as uber cautious as it is requires 1 man per wing as 'watchers' to ensure the aircarft doesn't hit other objects or the hanger doors.

But as an avid game player, I would LOVE to see a pilot land, taxi, and park in a hangar all in one shot!!!!

Sounds like you've already got the script in the works so... WoooHooo!!!!

BTW, we used to do 'roll on landings' in the Blackhawk as part of our regular training exercises. With enough forward airspeed and by neutralizing the main rotors this would allow us to glid in to an airstrip and land much like a fixed wing bird. All helo's can land like this, even the ones with skids. This is an emergency procedure when the tail rotor fails and the pilot needs to maintain forward airspeed less the bird spins out of control. With enough forward airspeed, the aft vertical stabilizer can keep the aircraft from rotating due to the kenetic energy in it's main rotors. Any hopes of simulating this obscure scenario? Don't worry, I'd rather you just finish the project at hand, but if it's easy to simulate.... Hmmmmmm....

:~)

Thanks, keep up the good works!!!!

Cytosine

[crassus 0]

cytosine, I've a question: Do the helos taxi out to the runway then take off, or do they do so from where they're parked?