British C-130 downed in Iraq

[Leveler 0]

Has anyone heard of it in the news? It was flying way north of the british sector and it crashed, killing those on board. Iraqi insurgents claim to have killed it with an RPG In british TV there have already popped out various ''experts'' claiming this is not true. Any opinions here?

[Chip 0]

An RPG can bring down a low-flying plane any day. It's not a heat-seeking missile which can be fooled by flares so there are no real countermeasures against it.

The mujahideen in Afghanistan developed an interesting techniques to shoot down helicopters with RPGs. I assume the same can be applied to slow and low-flying aircraft, especially to large targets like C-130.

Quote[/b] ]Helicopter hunting

While the RPG was designed to kill tanks and other combat vehicles, it has brought down a number of helicopters as well. During the fighting in Mogadishu, Somalia in October 1994, the two US Army Blackhawk helicopters shot down were by the RPG. In Afghanistan, the Mujahideen found that the best anti-helicopter tactics were anti-helicopter ambushes. The first variant was to identify likely landing zones and mine them. Then the Mujahideen would position machine guns and RPGs around the landing zone. As the helicopter landed, massed RPG and machine gun fire would tear into the aircraft.(14)

If the Mujahideen could not lure helicopters into an ambush kill zone, the RPG could still engage helicopters. The Mujahideen found that a frontal shot at a range of 100 meters was optimum against an approaching helicopter.(15) As before, the more RPGs firing simultaneously, the better chance of a hit and escape from an avenging wingman.(16)

Should the helicopters be flying further away, it was better to wait until the helicopter was 700-800 meters away and then fire, trying to catch the helicopter with the explosion of the round's self-destruction at 920 meters distance. Chances of hitting a helicopter at this range by the self-destruct mechanism were very limited, but they served to discourage reconnaissance helicopters and air assault landings, particularly if a SA-7 Strela or a Stinger shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile was also firing.(17)

Source: http://www.g2mil.com/RPG.htm

[Kaitnieks 0]

Never knew ogrish ( the sick site ) would be good for any war things:

Look what I found here:

Quote[/b] ]

January 31, 2005

British Military Plane, C-130 Hercules, Shot Down In Iraq (Video)

A least 10 British soldiers were killed Sunday when a C-130 Hercules British transport plane crashed just north of Baghdad, scattering the plane's wreckage over a large area.

The plane was traveling from Baghdad to the city of Balad when it went down.

The C-130 is considered the workhorse for the British air fleet.

The Hercules can carry up to 92 fully armed men and needs a crew of five to operate.

Link removed (altho it was a good footage with no gore I didn't know that these kind of movies are not allowed)

R.I.P to the 10 soldiers onboard the plane    

[billybob2002 0]

@Kaitnieks: remove the link, please. The mods do not like those types of sites. Just a member helping a member

Quote[/b] ]The mujahideen in Afghanistan developed an interesting techniques to shoot down helicopters with RPGs. I assume the same can be applied to slow and low-flying aircraft, especially to large targets like C-130.

A C-130 would be hard to down with one RPG unless lucky.

Quote[/b] ]Link removed (altho it was a good footage with no gore I didn't know that these kind of movies are not allowed)

The site is a big no-no because of the other content on that site...

[raedor 8]

Link removed (altho it was a good footage with no gore I didn't know that these kind of movies are not allowed)

the movie itself is not forbidden. it shows nothing special imho. that's what you can see in every news show. if you can host it somewhere, do it.

but the site you linked to has ...erm... some other contents, too

[Acecombat 0]

How can a weak RPG bring down a C-130? Its not guided , and hitting it elsewhere on the body and not the engine would not produce fatal results which might bring it down (IMO?maybe i am wrong?) but with that in mind they'd have to be heck of a shot to shoot a RPG and manage to score it right in a engine side which even then in some planes isnt enough to bring a plane DOWN , it'll kill power but the plane can still glide down and attempt a crash land saving people onboard atleast.

[raedor 8]

How can a weak RPG bring down a C-130? Its not guided , and hitting it elsewhere on the body and not the engine would not produce fatal results which might bring it down (IMO?maybe i am wrong?) but with that in mind they'd have to be heck of a shot to shoot a RPG and manage to score it right in a engine side which even then in some planes isnt enough to bring a plane DOWN , it'll kill power but the plane can still glide down and attempt a crash land saving people onboard atleast.

maybe the plane was full of ammunition or the rpg hit the part of the plane which had ammunition loaded? hm, but this all sounds pretty unbelievable and weird.

[Leveler 0]

I imagine a hit on the wing would have a chance to ignite the fuel and blast the airplane. But the problem would be hitting the airplane at all, even in low altitude and speed. That was a helluva shot or the Iraquis got some new AA missiles or simply the whole thing is BS like that farmer that downed an apache with an enfield

Edit: Helicopters obviously fly slower and close to the ground. In Mongadishu, the blackhawks were both shot in the tail rotor.

[llauma 0]

I imagine a hit on the wing would have a chance to ignite the fuel and blast the airplane. But the problem would be hitting the airplane at all, even in low altitude and speed. That was a helluva shot or the Iraquis got some new AA missiles or simply the whole thing is BS like that farmer that downed an apache with an enfield

I have managed to hit a plane with RPG in OFP. I know it's a game but but it's the same principle. It's really hard but if you try enough times you'll hit eventually. I guess this wasn't the first time that a RPG was fired against a plane.

[Leveler 0]

I have managed to hit a plane with RPG in OFP. I know it's a game but but it's the same principle. It's really hard but if you try enough times you'll hit eventually. I guess this wasn't the first time that a RPG was fired against a plane.

Hmmm... your name is not Ahmed, is it?

Even with practice this would be difficult. And I dont think the same band of rebels would survive long shooting RPGs on passing airplanes.

[llauma 0]

I have managed to hit a plane with RPG in OFP. I know it's a game but but it's the same principle. It's really hard but if you try enough times you'll hit eventually. I guess this wasn't the first time that a RPG was fired against a plane.

Hmmm...  your name is not Ahmed, is it?  

 Even with practice this would be difficult. And I dont think the same band of rebels would survive long shooting RPGs on passing airplanes.

It's not like there are a band of 10 men trying to shoot down planes but more like tens of thousands who wouldn't hesitate to take it down.

[red oct 2]

didn't Iraq have C-130's way back around the first gulf war? maybe that video of all the reckage was just staged. i remeber there was a Chinook that took a hit from a RPG and it still kept flying so why would it be different for a C-130 unless the rocket managed hit the cockpit.

[ozanzac 0]

One of the dead was an Australian serving with the RAF, Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel.

I've heard that it was not an RPG that shot the plane down, but a guided anti-armour missile.

The aircraft was reportedly on approach to land at Balad, 60km north of Baghdad.

[red oct 2]

so they did confirm it was shot down?

[ozanzac 0]

so they did confirm it was shot down?

Quote[/b] ]An RAF C-130K Hercules crashed near the town of Al Taji, 30 kilometres north-west of Baghdad on 30 January 2005 at approximately 1635 local time. The aircraft was on an administrative flight to Balad. Coalition forces from the US 1st Cavalry Division and US 1st Marine Expeditionary Force have secured the area. The immediate next of kin of the ten personnel who are missing believed killed have now been informed, but have asked for some further time to inform their wider families. The MOD will therefore not release any names until midday at the earliest on 1 February 2005. The media are strongly requested to respect their wishes and privacy.

The Secretary of State for Defence, the Rt Hon Geoff Hoon MP, said on 31 January:

"It is with great regret that I can confirm that nine Royal Air Force personnel and one soldier are missing believed killed in yesterday's crash of an RAF C-130 Hercules in Iraq. On behalf of the Ministry of Defence and all the Armed Forces, I should like to extend my deepest sympathies to the families of these servicemen.

"The aircraft was on a flight between Baghdad International Airport and Balad airbase when it crashed. UK and US forces have secured the crash site, and are now recovering the bodies, and attempting to ascertain the cause of the crash. We are aware of reports that the aircraft may have been shot down, but we are not in a position to come to any conclusions until the investigation is complete.

"The deaths of these Servicemen are especially poignant on a day when Iraqis were able to enjoy the freedom of democratic elections for the first time in many years.

"I can only echo the sentiment of the Prime Minister in recognising the sacrifice of these Servicemen."

From: http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/index.htm

Quote[/b] ]Casualty of former Royal Australian Air Force member

The Department of Defence can confirm that a former member of the Royal Australian Air Force who had enlisted in the Royal Air Force was a casualty onboard the C130 Hercules that crashed in Iraq this morning.

The United Kingdom Ministry of Defence will advise further detail once the individual’s next of kin have been informed.

From http://www.defence.gov.au/media/DepartmentalTpl.cfm?CurrentId=4596

[ralphwiggum 6]

i think this would have better served in Iraq thread. until placebo comes along to merge this into that thread, it will be closed.