Dying For Your Country

[Akira 0]

It may sound harsh, but the truth is, noone asked him to sacrifice himself for his country. The United States are a volunteer's army. If you volunteer for the army, you have to expect to be involved in fighting sooner or later and to die. However, you weren't forced to join up, you did it yourself. So deal with the consequences.

Someone doing his national service, however, doesn't have much choice - he is needed and thus "used" by his country. In this case, the country does owe him a lot.

No one ask a lot of people to do things. No one asked doctors to be doctors, but they are needed. No one asks teachers to be teachers but they are needed. Neither asks anyone to be anything, but people need and use them.

For that matter why compensate anyone then? A doctor doesn't HAVE to perform a life-saving operation. He/She chooses to. So why thank and pay him/her?

Edit: don't wanna be sexist

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

So why thank and pay him/her?

Edit: don't wanna be sexist

He is performing a trade and getting payed for it. He can be working for the government, for a company, or himself.

He gets money for working his trade. Same concept. Or am I missing something here

[Akira 0]

So why thank and pay him/her?

Edit: don't wanna be sexist

He is performing a trade and getting payed for it. He can be working for the government, for a company, or himself.

He gets money for working his trade. Same concept. Or am I missing something here

Yes.

From that logic, a soldier is performing a trade as well, and should be compensated (which they are). I am saying that people that decide (or are made to) be a soldier, and are put in harms way, and injured or killed, should they not be compensated for that sacrifice. The argument that "no one asked him to" is bull. As I said, no one asks anybody to do anything, yet they do. Should not people that put themselves on the line for others not be compensated for such (ie higher compensation...other than, for example, $6000 and a "sorry about that arm")?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Sorry Akira, I disagree.

Yes, its just another trade. Yes, it brings many more risks with it, with potentially more benefits for the "general good". As such, the compensation should reflect this, which it does in most cases.

Wages should be adjusted for potential gains and risks though, so whilst a Doctor's 100 grand a year are certainly justified, I don't think a soldier's 20 grand a year are. In my opinion, police officers, firefighters and soldiers all should receive higher wages.

But in the end of the day, its just a trade. You don't have to do it, you do it because you like it.

This argument doesn't apply to drafted soldiers, mind.

[iNeo 0]

It may sound harsh, but the truth is, noone asked him to sacrifice himself for his country. The United States are a volunteer's army. If you volunteer for the army, you have to expect to be involved in fighting sooner or later and to die. However, you weren't forced to join up, you did it yourself. So deal with the consequences.

You still die for your country, its government just didn't force you to into the situation. Unless I misunderstood you, haven't read all the replies.

[quicksand 0]

To add to the topic I consider that there is a thin line between dieing for ones country and for a wrong cause especially in recent wars.You need to have patriotic bias and a limited perspective to trully belive that your countrymen sacrifice was worth something for the better of your country.If you are neutral and less biased you will most likely begin to see things from a diferent angle,pointing out the contrasts and seeing things from the enemy perspective and ask himself who is the agressor and how is the war justified if for example the soverignety or security of a country was not at danger.

I would just like to give you a personal example as to what I  belive is the meaning of dieing for your country in a good way..Even though my own country was involved I belive there is nothing to be biased about.It was a popular revolution to oust Ceausescu-the communist dictator who led Romania until 1989.Thousands roumanians died to achieve the goal of a democratic state and for people such as I to enjoy the liberties that we now have as our born rights and do not need to fight for or risk being incarcerated or executed.The people who fought in the revolution are undoubtfully heroes who died for their country and probably freedom in general.

Last of all it is my personal belief that dieing for ones country is seriously overrated in present times as it should happen only when there is trully no other choice left.We live in fortunate times when we should aim to maximise life and apreciate those who live for their countries.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Wages should be adjusted for potential gains and risks though, so whilst a Doctor's 100 grand a year are certainly justified, I don't think a soldier's 20 grand a year are. In my opinion, police officers, firefighters and soldiers all should receive higher wages.

But in the end of the day, its just a trade. You don't have to do it, you do it because you like it.

Err...so you agree with me?

And we could easily debate the "you do it because you like it." Many do it beacuse they have nothing else, particularly poorer rural and urban kids. Therefore from that standpoint they were indeed forced into the military due to the government's failure in education and minority and poor opportunities.

[aviel 0]

wow, why you talk bout that i dont wanna think about dieing and i never wana be in that situation,

AND; i dont know how i will react in sutch a Rare situation.

[Akira 0]

FYI:

Quote[/b] ]Lawmakers help wounded soldier get home after dispute with Army

By DEVLIN BARRETT

Associated Press Writer

December 10, 2004, 4:23 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- Specialist Robert Loria of Middletown lost his arm in Iraq, but instead of a farewell paycheck from the U.S. Army he got a bill for nearly $1,800.

On Friday a platoon of New York lawmakers came to his rescue.

Loria found himself stuck in Fort Hood Texas this week when Army officials claimed he owed them money for travel expenses to a hospital and lost equipment.

Several lawmakers _ Rep. Maurice Hinchey and Senators Charles Schumer and Hillary Rodham Clinton _ interceded on behalf of the 27-year-old veteran after his irate wife, Christine Loria, told the Times-Herald Record of Middletown about the problem.

Loria was wounded in February. But as he was about to leave the Army this month, officials told him he had been overpaid for his time as a patient at a military hospital in the Washington area, and claimed he still owed money for travel between the hospital and Fort Hood, and $310 for items not found in his returned equipment.

Instead of a check for nearly $4,500, Loria was told he had to pay nearly $1,800.

"Christmas is coming up, and we are severely overdrawn because of this," Christine said angrily.

"It turned out his getting wounded wasn't the worst thing this year to happen _ this was," she said.

Clinton, Schumer, and Hinchey said Friday the Army has dropped the billing demands and will allow Loria to return home today or tomorrow on leave before he is discharged.

Clinton's office said late Friday that Army officials were now looking at cases of 19 other injured veterans who may have had payroll snafus similar to Loria.

"This man has already made such a sacrifice, and then they just put him through the wringer," said Schumer.

Clinton blamed the problem on someone in the bureaucracy being unwilling to help him with the paperwork that the Army insisted upon.

Hinchey charged the demands of the Iraq war have overstretched the military, which "sent people out to make sacrifices and then provided them with what essentially is personal abuse when they return home _ abuse and dishonor."

The Democratic lawmakers said Loria should be able to start heading home to New York in a day or two, but his wife said she wants to make absolutely sure those bills won't be reinstated at some point.

"I just want him out of there. I'm relieved that I know he's coming home but I know how powerful the military is and I'm just so very, very nervous until he is actually home," she said.

Link

EDIT: All Democrat Congress members I might add

[MilitiaSniper 0]

When you raise your right hand and get sworn in.

You are taking an oath.

"To protect against all enemies... foreign or domestic."

I agree that most armies now days are volunteer.

I would die for my country.

IF..! I was protecting my country.

Foreign or domestic.

But..! going over to some country, because of some civil war there.

How can that be, "Dying for your country?"

Sincerely, MilitiaSniper

PS. Merry Christmas to All!

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]EDIT: All Democrat Congress members I might add

And? It was all democrat congressmen who introduce a draft bill in congress.. The Army has that problem for a long time.

[edc 0]

I would think that "dying for your country" would mean dying for what your country believes in, or the ideals that people in your country generally hold. Whether that be freedom, end of persecution, safety for homeland, etc. The person may be fighting for another country's freedom, or to free another country from persecution, but its defending the ideals of your nation.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]EDIT: All Democrat Congress members I might add  

And? It was all democrat congressmen who introduce a draft bill in congress.. The Army has that problem for a long time.

You also forget, as has been discussed before, that he has done it for a number of sessions, and by his own mouth only does it to highlight the fact its not the rich Congress people's sons that are dying (the member that introduced it is Hispanic I believe).

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]I would think that "dying for your country" would mean dying for what your country believes in, or the ideals that people in your country generally hold.  Whether that be freedom, end of persecution, safety for homeland, etc.  The person may be fighting for another country's freedom, or to free another country from persecution, but its defending the ideals of your nation.

So if defending or spreading the ideals of your nation is so important, should not a premium be paid to those that do the actual "spreading".

Quote[/b] ]When you raise your right hand and get sworn in.

You are taking an oath.

"To protect against all enemies... foreign or domestic."

I agree that most armies now days are volunteer.

I would die for my country.

IF..! I was protecting my country.

Foreign or domestic.

But..! going over to some country, because of some civil war there.

How can that be, "Dying for your country?"

Sincerely, MilitiaSniper

Just out of curiosity, do you have a particular country in mind? Would Iraq fit into that? What of Afghanistan?

Quote[/b] ]PS. Merry Christmas to All!

Merry Chistmas!

[EiZei 0]

but its defending the ideals of your nation.

How come?

[edc 0]

Well, it would be defending people from persecution. Like World War II(though we didn't know what went on until later), Bosnia, etc. Or freedom. That could be like Somalia, depending on your viewpoint Iraq, the First Persian Gulf War, etc.

I apologize if my post is hard to read, its 4:30 AM here.

[denoir 0]

That's more enforcing the ideals of your nation.

[MilitiaSniper 0]

So if defending or spreading the ideals of your nation is so important, should not a premium be paid to those that do the actual "spreading".

Quote[/b] ]When you raise your right hand and get sworn in.

You are taking an oath.

"To protect against all enemies... foreign or domestic."

I agree that most armies now days are volunteer.

I would die for my country.

IF..! I was protecting my country.

Foreign or domestic.

But..! going over to some country, because of some civil war there.

How can that be, "Dying for your country?"

Sincerely, MilitiaSniper

Just out of curiosity, do you have a particular country in mind? Would Iraq fit into that? What of Afghanistan?

Quote[/b] ]PS. Merry Christmas to All!

Merry Chistmas!      

Is dying for your country's ideal... always your ideals?

I believe that going into Afghanistan was the right thing.

The people over there seem to be really grateful.

Now when it comes to Iraq.

That is a tough one. Hmmm  

Because this topic has split my nation. (In the opinion sense.)

In the sense some believe we should and some believe we shouldn't.

So the military personel that believe it was the right thing to do.

I guess they believe if they die.., they died for their country.

And for the few that don't believe that we shouldn't be there.

I guess..,  they feel it's not worth dying for.

See.., I work everyday with the military.

Sometimes we talk.

And only a few believe it was wrong to go to Iraq.

Ideals of your country. (Is it your ideals also or your governments ideals?) Worth dying for?

That is what should be asked.

Sincerely, MilitiaSniper

     

[Gollum1 0]

To add to the topic I consider that there is a thin line between dieing for ones country and for a wrong cause especially in recent wars.You need to have patriotic bias and a limited perspective to trully belive that your countrymen sacrifice was worth something for the better of your country.If you are neutral and less biased you will most likely begin to see things from a diferent angle,pointing out the contrasts and seeing things from the enemy perspective and ask himself who is the agressor and how is the war justified if for example the soverignety or security of a country was not at danger.

But what if the country's cause is aggression, as Nazi Germany's was? Are you still dying for a 'wrong' cause then or your country? I ask because I see you are using aggression as a 'wrong' cause.

Aggression can server the interests of your country for example economically and defensively (heh, now there's a contradiction) very well if done right, hence dying in such a war could also be defined as dying for your country, maybe for the future economical well-being and safety of your people. The war needn't be justified, i.e unprovoked according to your definition, to be in your country's interests.

[DarkLight 0]

To add to the topic I consider that there is a thin line between dieing for ones country and for a wrong cause especially in recent wars.You need to have patriotic bias and a limited perspective to trully belive that your countrymen sacrifice was worth something for the better of your country.If you are neutral and less biased you will most likely begin to see things from a diferent angle,pointing out the contrasts and seeing things from the enemy perspective and ask himself who is the agressor and how is the war justified if for example the soverignety or security of a country was not at danger.

But what if the country's cause is aggression, as Nazi Germany's was? Are you still dying for a 'wrong' cause then or your country? I ask because I see you are using aggression as a 'wrong' cause.

Aggression can server the interests of your country for example economically and defensively (heh, now there's a contradiction) very well if done right, hence dying in such a war could also be defined as dying for your country, maybe for the future economical well-being and safety of your people. The war needn't be justified, i.e unprovoked according to your definition, to be in your country's interests.

People shouldn't die for crap like stupid wars in the first place... Even worse when they tend to glorify the whole thing by saying that you died for your country...

I'd never want to die for anything like that.  I am convinced that i have only one life on this planet, after that, it's all over.  So there's no way that i'm gonna waste my life on some piece of land or some ideals that i probably don't even really care about.  

Yeah i'd fight and risk my life for something that i really really love... Actually no... for someONE i really really love.  

But for my country?  Hahaha hell no

I think it's sad that some people can feel proud about it.  Seriously what's the damn difference?  You're dead remember?

This might sound a bit harsh but it is harsh.  People do die even if you glorify it.

For me, my country is the land i live on, it's the rules i live by, it's the language that i speak, the culture i live in.  But that's it, i don't feel such an incredible love for my country at all.

Seriously i don't understand patriots... I really don't... to me, they look a bit like... nutcases  

It's a dangerous thing i think...  Yes it can also be something very innocent, but the islam is innocent too.  It's just when some nutcases start freaking out a bit too much it goes wrong.

Oh well...

I'd never consider dying for your country as an honour or as somethign to be proud of.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]But what if the country's cause is aggression, as Nazi Germany's was? Are you still dying for a 'wrong' cause then or your country? I ask because I see you are using aggression as a 'wrong' cause.

Well the case of World War 2 Germany is very complex.The propaganda they were fed can be no excuse to the fact they strongly suported the government and by the time they invaded France,USSR it was clearly expansionism and not taking what was "rightfully" theirs.The population inhereted the Nazi government ideals so they died for the ideals but not for the security of Germany or to protet it's soverignety odds were that in the end it almost led to it's destruction and decades of occupation.

All though my post was a touch poor worded I have also added ...is the war justified if for example the soverignety or security of a country was not at danger.

I consider that before going to war for your country you have to weigh things with caution and not just based on patriotic sentiments.Beyond security and soverignety there should also be the question of morality.

Quote[/b] ]Aggression can server the interests of your country for example economically and defensively (heh, now there's a contradiction) very well if done right, hence dying in such a war could also be defined as dying for your country, maybe for the future economical well-being and safety of your people. The war needn't be justified, i.e unprovoked according to your definition, to be in your country's interests.

Yes,that was how it worked between nations in past times obviously inhereted from the rules of nature as the bigger fish always got to eat the little one but after centuries of bloodshed we evolved and realised that the weak diserves protection and he should aspire to keep peace be it by mutually assured distruction.

Finally as I've said the notion of dieing for ones country is overrated.I respect just as much if not even more peacekeepers who had no obligation to do so but have served and died in 3rd world countries to keep a fragile peace between waring factions then for my own countrymen who fought in the 1989 revolution who were forced to uprise by inhumane conditions.

[Gollum1 0]

I'd never want to die for anything like that. I am convinced that i have only one life on this planet, after that, it's all over. So there's no way that i'm gonna waste my life on some piece of land or some ideals that i probably don't even really care about.

Quote[/b] ]I'd never consider dying for your country as an honour or as somethign to be proud of.

So let me see, you don't care about basic human rights like freedom of expression, fair trial or racial equality? You apparently don't care about a democratic form of government either. All these are upheld by countries and their people, including your own.

Quote[/b] ]

Yeah i'd fight and risk my life for something that i really really love... Actually no... for someONE i really really love.

Wow, you managed to contradict yourself only one sentence later!

Quote[/b] ] Seriously what's the damn difference? You're dead remember?

This might sound a bit harsh but it is harsh. People do die even if you glorify it.

So you mean there ISN'T anything at all to die for? You are sending some very mixed messages here.

Quote[/b] ]For me, my country is the land i live on, it's the rules i live by, it's the language that i speak, the culture i live in. But that's it, i don't feel such an incredible love for my country at all.

Wow, Western civilisation is nearing the end of its line when you hear stuff like this.

Quote[/b] ]Seriously i don't understand patriots... I really don't... to me, they look a bit like... nutcases

For once I feel it is justified to launch into mode and say that freedom is NOT free and you wouldn't be typing to the Internet from your cozy home if there weren't patriots on guard to defend your people, your rights and your way of life.

A quote comes to mind:

A man who won't die for something is not fit to live.

[Gollum1 0]

Nazi Germany stuff

True, but I think irrelevant, there are many more actually successful aggressors in history to take as example.

Quote[/b] ]All though my post was a touch poor worded I have also added ...is the war justified if for example the soverignety or security of a country was not at danger.

I consider that before going to war for your country you have to weigh things with caution and not just based on patriotic sentiments.Beyond security and soverignety there should also be the question of morality.

There should be and I agree, but I don't think the actual justification of a war has much to do with dying for a country, if you die for its interests then you die for it, yes?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Aggression can server the interests of your country for example economically and defensively (heh, now there's a contradiction) very well if done right, hence dying in such a war could also be defined as dying for your country, maybe for the future economical well-being and safety of your people. The war needn't be justified, i.e unprovoked according to your definition, to be in your country's interests.

Yes,that was how it worked between nations in past times obviously inhereted from the rules of nature as the bigger fish always got to eat the little one but after centuries of bloodshed we evolved and realised that the weak diserves protection and he should aspire to keep peace be it by mutually assured distruction.

I don't think humanity has had time to 'evolve' during the time of warring nations, just a few thousand years. If you strip away our fragile civilization the same natural brutality of the food chain is still there.

The greatest wars of history occurred just sixty years ago, motivated by the same aggressive mentality.

[der bastler 0]

The problem with defending your rights and your freedom: Today you would have to fight your own country...

I can't see foreign barbarians at our borders, but I see abuse of our Grundgesetz (Basic Constitutional Law of Germany) by certain people... politicians, managers and the like. And this problem exists in other countries as well (a nod towards our friends beyond the Atlantic Ocean).

And no, participating in politics is no choice. We tried it and we abandoned any hope. I have seen friends turning into zombies, defending ideas that are obviously utter bullshit for anybody outside the party... (like the moronic "Kopfpauschale" or planning a 20 MegaEUR swimming pool for our community while having 50 MegaEUR debts)

[DarkLight 0]

-

I'd never want to die for anything like that.  I am convinced that i have only one life on this planet, after that, it's all over.  So there's no way that i'm gonna waste my life on some piece of land or some ideals that i probably don't even really care about.

Quote[/b] ]I'd never consider dying for your country as an honour or as somethign to be proud of.

So let me see, you don't care about basic human rights like freedom of expression, fair trial or racial equality? You apparently don't care about a democratic form of government either. All these are upheld by countries and their people, including your own.

I do care about them... But i sure as hell don't think it's worth dying for.  Yeah i'd do A LOT to defend stuff like that... but dying?  Hell no.  Life is very very... very precious to me.

Ok maybe if someone'd say, there will be no more war, hunger, problems, blahblah ever if we can shoot you now then i might consider it.  But that's not realistic at all

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Yeah i'd fight and risk my life for something that i really really love... Actually no... for someONE i really really love.  

Wow, you managed to contradict yourself only one sentence later!

No i didn't.

I quote

...there's no way that i'm gonna waste my life on some piece of land or some ideals...

I never said that i wouldn't want to die for someone that i truly truly truuuuly love.  To me, that's something a lot different than politics or patriotism or whatever.  Maybe not for you, but for me it is.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] Seriously what's the damn difference?  You're dead remember?

This might sound a bit harsh but it is harsh.  People do die even if you glorify it.

So you mean there ISN'T anything at all to die for? You are sending some very mixed messages here.

No i mean that dying for your country doesn't change anything to the fact that you're dead.  So i don't see how someone can think dying for your country is better than dying on some other way.  I just don't see the good part about it.  What's the damn point, you're dead, who cares about your country?  Just stay alive goddamnit!

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]For me, my country is the land i live on, it's the rules i live by, it's the language that i speak, the culture i live in.  But that's it, i don't feel such an incredible love for my country at all.

Wow, Western civilisation is nearing the end of its line when you hear stuff like this.

Funny because life here in Belgium is very nice without all the weird and dangerous folks you find in the Wild Wild West and all the war in the East.  

I guess you are right, we are insane, war-hungry gun-loving freaks..........  

*°*sssssssmell the irony*°*

Now if you'll excuse me

i'm gonna smash my head through my monitor...

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Seriously i don't understand patriots... I really don't... to me, they look a bit like... nutcases  

For once I feel it is justified to launch into  mode and say that freedom is NOT free and you wouldn't be typing to the Internet from your cozy home if there weren't patriots on guard to defend your people, your rights and your way of life.

Well i thank everyone that fought for my freedom, i'm sure that if some idiot would invade my country i'd defend it too. Just like my grandparents did. But that has nothing to do with patriotism.  I wouldn't fight to defend good ol' Belgium.  I'd fight to teach the bastard that attacks my loved ones a lesson.  

You seem to think that only patriots fight for freedom.  You know, i'm not a patriot at all, neither do i want to die.  But when under attack, i'd fight back.  I sure as hell wouldn't be prepared to die but if the bullet hits me then there isn't much left to do but die, right?

Yeah sure, if i'd be in a position like for example world war 2, then i'd fight too.

That's logical you know.  A very nice and cute doggy will fight back too if you just treat it bad enough.

But i'd never, NEVER go to Iraq for example, to fight for the american ideals and to die for my country.

You know, there's nothing wrong with fighting for your freedom.  At this point in my life i just wouldn't want to die for the ideals of a country.  

I have huge respect for all the people that HAVE died for it.  Because their sacrifice is incredible.  

Call me whatever you want, i bet a lot of you would wimp out when you'd actually have to do the real thing.  At least i admit that life is precious to me, and that i'm not planning to stop it all too damn early...

Quote[/b] ]A quote comes to mind:

A man who won't die for something is not fit to live.

I am a child' date=' not a man. [img']http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif[/img]

[Gollum1 0]

I do care about them... But i sure as hell don't think it's worth dying for. Yeah i'd do A LOT to defend stuff like that...

Quote[/b] ]So there's no way that i'm gonna waste my life on some piece of land or some ideals that i probably don't even really care about.

Quote[/b] ]Ok maybe if someone'd say, there will be no more war, hunger, problems, blahblah ever if we can shoot you now then i might consider it.

Quote[/b] ]but dying? Hell no.

Glad we got that cleared up....or....

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Wow, you managed to contradict yourself only one sentence later!

No i didn't.

Yes you did.

Quote[/b] ] Seriously what's the damn difference? You're dead remember?

This might sound a bit harsh but it is harsh. People do die even if you glorify it.

This can just as easily be applied to dying for something that you 'really, really love.' Dying for it doesn't change anything any more than dying for your country does,

Quote[/b] ]Seriously what's the damn difference? You're dead remember?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]For me, my country is the land i live on, it's the rules i live by, it's the language that i speak, the culture i live in. But that's it, i don't feel such an incredible love for my country at all.

Wow, Western civilisation is nearing the end of its line when you hear stuff like this.

Funny because life here in Belgium is very nice without all the weird and dangerous folks you find in the Wild Wild West and all the war in the East.

I guess you are right, we are insane, war-hungry gun-loving freaks..........

*°*sssssssmell the irony*°*

Now if you'll excuse me

i'm gonna smash my head through my monitor...

What? Typical rambling, where did I call you war-hungry freaks and why are you hurting yourself? I have no idea where you got this.

Quote[/b] ]Well i thank everyone that fought for my freedom, i'm sure that if some idiot would invade my country i'd defend it too. But that has nothing to do with patriotism. I wouldn't fight to defend good ol' Belgium.

Quote[/b] ]I'd fight to teach the bastard that attacks my loved ones a lesson.

So do you want to defend your country or your loved ones? Make up your mind. Unless you consider your entire country filled with loved ones...that would be peculiar since you don't want to die for the country's soul, i.e its culture or ideals, but still want to defend Belgium in particular...

Quote[/b] ]You seem to think that only patriots fight for freedom.

Nope.

Quote[/b] ]You know, there's nothing wrong with fighting for your freedom. At this point in my life i just wouldn't want to die for the ideals of a country.

I have huge respect for all the people that HAVE died for it. Because their sacrifice is incredible.

Quote[/b] ]No i mean that dying for your country doesn't change anything to the fact that you're dead. So i don't see how someone can think dying for your country is better than dying on some other way. I just don't see the good part about it. What's the damn point, you're dead, who cares about your country? Just stay alive goddamnit!

Hahahaha what the fuck? I feel like I'm replying to three people at once