Sophion-Black 0 Posted June 19, 2005 I recognise that the Iraq war and TBA's playing of the ally card, as it were calling in the special relationship marker has probably used up that marker and that in the long term the UK's best interest is best served by closer defense relations with Europe rather than the US... 1) Ally, not much of a word but you make it seem like an unbreakable bond. Do you realize that the UK could have just plain refused to go with the US in invading Iraq? Thats the terms of NATO. You don't have to take up arms against an enemy if your ally is the attacker. thats the main structure of NATO. It was an effort to show the Soviets that "if you attack one you attck us all." Defence was the key for it being created. There has to be something more to the story. Realize that most of the war is political, roughly 70%, and a margin of the politics is "black" or not seen by the public eye, roughly 30% of the 70%. so all you are seeing is a little bit of whats really going on. the news shows the battle and combat at its best of ability and goverment limits (can't show commando raids) so you see about 90% of combat (28% overall). and the 40% politics (68% overall). so you see you anly see so much. people don't realize that you're not seeing the whole picture. (heh heh, dancing banana -=> ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybob2002 0 Posted June 19, 2005 What about the travels to Africa for votes? I didn't hear Germany or Russia trying to sway UN members to their side like the French did. C'mon, Bob, that sound rather pathetic and childish  Your government did absolutly the same thing in Africa and all over the world, as France, fighting hard for their "truth", in order to win polls, and some of these diplomats having economical threaths and helps in their case... Germany has no veto power and decided to choose to talk with the same voice as France, and Russia was too happy to see someone else ready to use the veto power (like UK being too happy about the French and Dutch NO for the EU constitution, no risk anymore to be viewed as the european black duck, what I call hypocrisy, which is an old human habit, not just a British one). Rather funny to read an american found of Fox News trying to teach me about Europe (as If I tried to give lessons about US and inter-states relationships)  When did I try to teach on Europe? I gave the main reason why americans attitudes towards France dipped south. France, in effect, was the main player in the opposition and the other countries may of said things and stood with France but they did not take actions like France did. Alot of american saw what France did has, "wtf", playing for the other "team". You punish the "head" and not the body ...   Bush isn't all that bad... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074085-2,00.html Quote[/b] ]HAVE YOU TAILORED YOUR MESSAGE IN EACH G-8 COUNTRY, AND IF SO, HOW HAVE YOU TAILORED YOUR MESSAGE TO AMERICANS? BONO Warren Buffett gave me the best advice on this subject. He said, "Don't appeal to the conscience of America. Appeal to the greatness of America, and you'll get the job done." CURTIS Insert in there "remarkably accurate impression of Warren Buffett." BONO Onstage I talk about my first impression of Americans, which was watching a man walk on the moon. We thought, Americans are mad! But look what they can do when they get organized. GELDOF America doesn't have a lack of empathy; they just don't know the issues as well. Actually, today I had to defend the Bush Administration in France again. They refuse to accept, because of their political ideology, that he has actually done more than any American President for Africa. But it's empirically so. Quote[/b] ]WHICH OF THE G-8 LEADERS DO YOU THINK REMAINS THE TOUGHEST NUT TO CRACK? BONO The most important and toughest nut is still President Bush. He feels he's already doubled and tripled aid to Africa, which he has. But he started from far too low a place. He can stand there and say he paid at the office already. He shouldn't, because he'll be left out of the history books. But it's hard for him because of the expense of the war and the debts. But I have a hunch that he will step forward with something. And it'll take somebody like him ... Overall, it is was a "nice" read.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Quote[/b] ]NEW YORK (AP) -- The director of the CIA says he has an "excellent idea" where Osama bin Laden is hiding, but that the United States' respect for sovereign nations makes it more difficult to capture the al Qaeda chief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 The US needs to stop being scared of stepping on people's toe's and go where ever Bin Laden is IF there is hard proof of him being there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted June 20, 2005 The US needs to stop being scared of stepping on people's toe's and go where ever Bin Laden is IF there is hard proof of him being there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Okay so I made a spelling mistake. I didnt know that was cause for a belly laugh..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moving Target 0 Posted June 20, 2005 The US needs to stop being scared of stepping on people's toe's and go where ever Bin Laden is IF there is hard proof of him being there. and when was there last hard proof of him being anywhere? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Okay so I made a spelling mistake. I didnt know that was cause for a belly laugh..... Mainly laughing at the utterly ridiclous idea that the current US leaders would be one bit afraid to violate national sovereignity if it meant capturing the main man himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Well then you really need to wake up and smell the coffee because the last thing Bush or anybody else wants is another Iraq and thats what's going to make them scared to go invade another country to get Bin Laden. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted June 20, 2005 I think maybe the point is that there wouldn't need to be a worry about "another Iraq" if Bush had worried about the main man in the WoT and not some personal side issue with Saddam. Not to mention the irony of TBA suddenly worrying about "sovereign nations". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Yea well Bush's greed for oil has cost the lives of well over 1000 US soldiers.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sophion-Black 0 Posted June 20, 2005 The US needs to stop being scared of stepping on people's toe's and go where ever Bin Laden is IF there is hard proof of him being there. agreed, finding Bin Laden is like finding the holy grail. finding hard evedince is like finding wonder woman's invisible plane again... THINK. Bin Laden is probibly going to be a legend like jimmy hafa (never quite understood everything about that story) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Jimmy Hafa crossed the mafia and is rumored to have been buried where a parking lot now stands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Jimmy Hoffa was a union leader that got too big and noisey for the mafia's liking. He went to a restaurant to supposedly meet someone and was never seen again. His body has never been found. In any case, if the US found and captured Bin Laden, what would happen to the War On Terror? Any justification for its continuance would be ruined. The populace would not support continued interventions and wars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Quote[/b] ]Jimmy Hoffa was a union leader that got too big and noisey for the mafia's liking. He went to a restaurant to supposedly meet someone and was never seen again. His body has never been found. Yea that sums it up alot better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted June 20, 2005 In any case, if the US found and captured Bin Laden, what would happen to the War On Terror? Any justification for its continuance would be ruined. The populace would not support continued interventions and wars. Im sure they can find another quran-toting beardy guy to demonize. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 In any case, if the US found and captured Bin Laden, what would happen to the War On Terror? Any justification for its continuance would be ruined. The populace would not support continued interventions and wars. Im sure they can find another quran-toting beardy guy to demonize. Are you a terrorist supporter? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moving Target 0 Posted June 20, 2005 no, but it is true to form that the US government is just using "terrorism" to go after other target, i.e. Iraq. Was there any WMD there? no.... Osama? Not for a long time... Oil? Bucket loads and its cheaper than water in Iraq. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted June 20, 2005 no, but it is true to form that the US government is just using "terrorism" to go after other target, i.e. Iraq. Was there any WMD there? no.... Osama? Not for a long time... Oil? Bucket loads and its cheaper than water in Iraq. I agree with you on the whole Iraq ordeal. But I dont think we are demonizing Bin Laden. I think he did a good job of that when he killed 3000 innocent people and hijacked Islam to justify his cause. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donnervogel 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Oil? Bucket loads and its cheaper than water in Iraq. It's cheaper than water in the US and Europe too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Someone have that chart of the cost of items compared to gas? Many household items we buy are a lot more expensive than gas... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted June 20, 2005 In any case, if the US found and captured Bin Laden, what would happen to the War On Terror? Any justification for its continuance would be ruined. The populace would not support continued interventions and wars. Im sure they can find another quran-toting beardy guy to demonize. Are you a terrorist supporter? Well, according to some people's definitions maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Someone have that chart of the cost of items compared to gas? Many household items we buy are a lot more expensive than gas... After taxes it's significantly more expensive than pepsi here. The joys of owning a volvo station wagon.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted June 20, 2005 Someone have that chart of the cost of items compared to gas? Many household items we buy are a lot more expensive than gas... After taxes it's significantly more expensive than pepsi here. The joys of owning a volvo station wagon.. *Points and laughs* You have a stationwagon! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harley 3 1185 0 Posted June 20, 2005 You have a station wagon??! We have a five liter Ford Clubwagon over in America  ! <Sobs quietly> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
