USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Akira 0]

The French have been bashed in America for far longer than that. Iraq was hardly a reason to bash the French...just gave those that do it anyway the ability to be more vocal about it. Why no bashing of Germany or the rest of the world that told the US to "fuck off" with their laughable intel?

[billybob2002 0]

The French have been bashed in America for far longer than that. Iraq was hardly a reason to bash the French...just gave those that do it anyway the ability to be more vocal about it. Why no bashing of Germany or the rest of the world that told the US to "fuck off" with their laughable intel?

Maybe the perceptions of the French (you know...) and how vocal they were compared to other nations that are Allies too.

Quote[/b] ]Amazing how a bunch of people who have no idea about the French and how they helped America will get together and be angry at the French.

You every heard of the XYZ affair? It happened between 1797-1798 (more than a decade or so after the Revolutionary War ended) and war almost was declarded in 1798 against France. Also, the Quasi-War against the French "Navy" between 1798-1800 (war was not declarded).  French-American relationship has not been rosey, in which people think, throughout history. There has been various bumps on the road and this is one of them. Feel lucky..

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]Or France if they keep up being stuborn and not look at how many times we put our asses out on the line for them

Heh, well, that depends on how much you like to be nuked.

nuked eh? how many do the French have compared to our... "collection" seems like we have more guns to point .

Quote[/b] ]Never forget that America would not exist at all if it weren't for the French interefering with Britain's plans for World domination twice.

need i remind you that they came at the end of the war.

Quote[/b] ]But lets not forget June 6th 1944 where many americans,british,and canadains died trying to get a foothold in France to liberate it...

dont forget the aussies, they helped out too.

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

I think the bash the french thing is linked to the guilty paranoia thing.

Kind Regards Walker

huh???

Quote[/b] ]I personally think the whole bash the french thing (for americans at least) orginated after the French decided to not go to Iraq. People here in America were going crazy, they had stickers that said "First Iraq, Then France". We also started calling French Fries, "Freedom Fries". Amazing how a bunch of people who have no idea about the French and how they helped America will get together and be angry at the French.

A LOT LONGER!!!:

1917 - US enters WWI due to the French and British making Germany resume unrestricted submarien warfare (French -1)

1944 - D-Day, US takes a bullet and a half at Utah beach (French -2)

1954 - French failes to surpress Communism in Veitnam (French -4)

1967 - After a long "POLITICAL" war, US withdraws (French -8)

2002 - Gulf war begins, French refuse to help (French -2)

French -17

That pretty much makes the French look bad. To me, it looks like they have no military might or backbone by militry history. Face it how many Wars have the French won alone?

[Akira 0]

And just how many have the US won alone?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]and in every response there after, you try to dilute the situation by saying "everyone is not clean". In that case, you would be admitting that GOP has problems. however, while you try to prove that point with zeal, you do not say that "What Helms said is wrong". In other words, you are more interested in defeding Helms, while simultaneously depict Dems as trash. turning a blind eye this is.

I'm not defending Helms comments and etc. but to say that GOP is bias, in sense of Helms, because of one man beliefs is ridiculous. Granted, GOP is bias, in an general sense, but so is the Demo. Party. Individuals, like him (loosely), exist in both parties and hence, both parties have trash.

you might not be defending him directly, but you are trying to diffuse the situation by trying to divert focus. just look at the last sentence.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Pat Buchanan was not born an incubator with GOP gene. What he is is an individual joining a party. If he had wrong view, it would have been a lot better if he was asked to calm down or stand on the side. but he was a fierce speaker for conservative cause.

He considered a RINO..

nope. he was considered a prominent republican.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ](need I mention that military failed to meet the recruitment goal last month?).

Only the Army and it's "affiliates" missed it goal. Marines, Navy, and AF made their goals.

actually Marines missed it but only by a few. notice the trend? as long as there are less in-your-face combats involved, there are more going to that branch.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/09/army.recruiting.ap/index.html

[llauma 0]

Have you ever heard of a dude named Napoleon? The world existed long before USA did.

USA have only won wars alone against countries which aren't much bigger than Rhode Island.

[harley 3 1185 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Never forget that America would not exist at all if it weren't for the French interefering with Britain's plans for World domination twice.

need i remind you that they came at the end of the war.

Yes, they intervened directly towards the end of the War of Independence, before which the record of the Conitinental Army was hardly stellar.  Without the presence of the French Navy which blockaded the British Forces on the Chesapeke Bay,  and the force of French troops (larger than Washington's command) which surrounded Yorktown, there would have been no surrender.

Quote[/b] ]dont forget the aussies, they helped out too.

Hate to correct you but there were NO Australian Army Units serving in the European Theater of Operation in 1944-1945.  Maybe some RAAF units but everything else was devoted to 'mopping up' for General MacArthur in the South West Pacific Ocean Area.

Quote[/b] ]1944 - D-Day, US takes a bullet and a half at Utah beach (French -2)

1954 - French failes to surpress Communism in Veitnam (French -4)

1:  The beach where enemy resistance was most fierce on D-Day was OMAHA beach, not UTAH.

2:  The French Government in Paris directed that it was time for French forces to be withdrawn from Indochina after the decimation of the garrison of DIEN BIEN PHU.  French Forces in Vietnam still could have pursued the Communists, but like the American government in 1967 the people and government lost heart.

And would you please care to explain your 'scoring' system?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]you might not be defending him directly, but you are trying to diffuse the situation by trying to divert focus. just look at the last sentence.

(Wiggum)Bash Republican=(Billybob2002)Bash Democrats

Quote[/b] ]nope. he was considered a prominent republican.

He is not a prominent republican today.

Quote[/b] ]actually Marines missed it but only by a few. notice the trend? as long as there are less in-your-face combats involved, there are more going to that branch.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....0195520

Quote[/b] ]The Pentagon noted, however, that the marines, the navy and the air force all met or exceeded their recruitment goals for May.

Quote[/b] ]USA have only won wars alone against countries which aren't much bigger than Rhode Island.

Going in alone wars:

Quasi-War -defeated the French "Navy"

First Barbary War (used some Arab mercs thou)\

Second Barbary War (Euro. came at the very end to "help" enforce the treaty)

Various Indian Wars (no comment)

Mexican-American War

Spanish-American War

Philippine-American War

:/

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]you might not be defending him directly, but you are trying to diffuse the situation by trying to divert focus. just look at the last sentence.

(Wiggum)Bash Republican=(Billybob2002)Bash Democrats

difference is that I'm more objective

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]nope. he was considered a prominent republican.

He is not a prominent republican today.

this response shows exactly what kind of denial GOP minds are. when Buchanan was flying high, GOP was considering him as a beacon of conservative causes. when he fell out of favor, they now say that he is not affiliated with GOP. but the truth is the ideas that Buchanan supported still exists in GOP, regardless of Buchanan's departure.

here's an analogy. Al Capone is no longer in prison. so does that make him a free citizen with all rights restored?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]actually Marines missed it but only by a few. notice the trend? as long as there are less in-your-face combats involved, there are more going to that branch.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....0195520

Quote[/b] ]The Pentagon noted, however, that the marines, the navy and the air force all met or exceeded their recruitment goals for May.

from your article

Quote[/b] ]Some recruiters, meanwhile, have been criticized for aggressively trying to enlist potential recruits.

US media cited a case in Houston, Texas, where a recruiter left a telephone message for a young person threatening arrest if he didn't attend the meeting he had scheduled.

In another case in Denver, Colorado, two recruiters were accused of showing a 17-year-old how to cheat on an anti-drug test, and how to obtain false end-of-studies diplomas, so they would meet their recruitment goals.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]And just how many have the US won alone?

hmm... nevermind billy bob got it first.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quasi-War -defeated the French "Navy"

Various Indian Wars (no comment)

Mexican-American War

Spanish-American War

Philippine-American War

Quasi-War - Undeclared war and we are talking about full national resources, land and other wise, and you know it.

Various Indian Wars - Give me a break.

Mexican-American War - Yes. Those Mexicans were a major power. The freakin' Texans beat them for crying out loud.

Spanish-American War - This was hardly the Spanish army of long ago, a considerably weaker army than the US.

Philippine-American War - Now you are considering a rebellion as a war? Do you walk around with pride everyday knowing the US beat the Filipinos in 1899?

Why no mention of the glorious victories against Granada and Panama?

Boy those sure rank with the French conquering almost all of Europe.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]- War of 1812

Perhaps you should do some reading about the War Of 1812 and how the British were primarily bogged down with Napolean in Europe. As some one said, the British in no way seriously fought us, but they however, still managed to hand us defeat after defeat including burning our capitol.

Quote[/b] ] The Spanish-American War

See above.

Quote[/b] ]Philippine Insurrection Campaign

See above

Quote[/b] ]- Latin-American Campaigns

Quote[/b] ]- Pacific Campaign of WWII

Boy, all those Australian, British and Chinese fighters sure appreciate that.

Quote[/b] ]good enough for ya?

Hardly.

[harley 3 1185 0]

Hmm, let's see;

War of 1812

The US started that war by invading Canada-did they conquer Canada? NO.

Why did the British not win? Because they were fighting a very very large war in Europe.

Who won? Nobody, although I say Britain won because we burned Washington, D.C. to the ground.

The Spanish-American War

Started by the U.S. on a major trumped up excuse (mysterious sinking of the Maine). You conquered Cuba and beat the meagre Spanish forces in the Philippines. Seeing as Spain at this point was racked by internal divisions it hadn't a cat in hell's chance of waging a prolonged war against the U.S. Well done, you.

Philippine Insurrection Campaign

Yes, you maintained a huge (relatively) part of the Army armed with Machine Guns, Springfields and revolvers and crushed the rebellion of Aquinas. Good show.

Latin American Campaigns

You beat a load of Mexican brigands and poorly led peasants, not much changed from the days of the Alamo.

Much later you invaded the BRITISH territory of Grenada and awarded yourselves 2000 decorations for bravery. This just gets better and better...

Pacific Campaign of World War Two

Yes, you did the Lion's share, but without staging bases in New Caledonia, Australia and New Zealand you wouldn't have gotten too far. The Australians and New Zealanders who secured New Guinea and cleared up the mess after the Yanks moved on; the half-million troops tied down in South-East Asia.

And, of course, don't forget your great defeat in the Philippines which rivals the British one in Malaya.

These are all amazing examples of American force of arms-the only valid example being the Great Pacific Campaign which I agree has little parallel in the history of warfare.

[harley 3 1185 0]

Aww shoot, Akira.  You beat me to the draw...Wah.

For clarification, btw, the Pacific Theater was seperate from the China Burma India Theater. The Pacific Theater was in turn divided into the South West Pacific and the North West Pacific Areas (General MacArthur and Admiral Nimitz respectively). The North West was primarily US (wholly I think). The South West contained Australians and Americans. The Burma Area was British Imperial endeavor, and the not few Americans there operated out of bases in British India. Chinese forces were largely ineffective during the war except when the Great Stilwell whipped them into battle by literally leading from the front.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]this response shows exactly what kind of denial GOP minds are. when Buchanan was flying high, GOP was considering him as a beacon of conservative causes. when he fell out of favor, they now say that he is not affiliated with GOP. but the truth is the ideas that Buchanan supported still exists in GOP, regardless of Buchanan's departure.

here's an analogy. Al Capone is no longer in prison. so does that make him a free citizen with all rights restored?

I'm GOP, now? Yeah, some of his ideas are still in GOP because there are conservative in nature.  Oh, Pat Buchanan is not a repbulican no more but a reformist (D'oh on my side).

Quote[/b] ]from your article

Those were Army recruiters I believe.

Quote[/b] ]Quasi-War - Undeclared war and we are talking about full national resources, land and other wise, and you know it.

Various Indian Wars - Give me a break.

Mexican-American War - Yes. Those Mexicans were a major power. The freakin' Texans beat them for crying out loud.

Spanish-American War - This was hardly the Spanish army of long ago, a considerably weaker army than the US.

Philippine-American War - Now you are considering a rebellion as a war? Do you walk around with pride everyday knowing the US beat the Filipinos in 1899?

Why no mention of the glorious victories against Granada and Panama?

Boy those sure rank with the French conquering almost all of Europe.

The US. only won wars alone against countries which aren't much bigger than Rhode Island. :/ Wars can be won anywhere and different means. There is no pissing match going on but some are trying.

Quote[/b] ]Have you ever heard of a dude named Napoleon? The world existed long before USA did.

USA have only won wars alone against countries which aren't much bigger than Rhode Island

Case in point, harley 3 1185.

[harley 3 1185 0]

billybob's right (i think).  Time to get back on topic.  This is a Politics forum, not a History forum (though by the sound of things we need to set one up).

I'll say this however, the United States was created to be seperate from the nations of Europe.  The Monroe doctrine committed it only to wars on the American Continents.  And it tried, until the presidency of Teddy Roosevelt, to be isolationist, and progressively less so over the past 100 years until it made use of its assets to become THE most powerful country in the world.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]dont forget the aussies, they helped out too.

Hate to correct you but there were NO Australian Army Units serving in the European Theater of Operation in 1944-1945.  Maybe some RAAF units but everything else was devoted to 'mopping up' for General MacArthur in the South West Pacific Ocean Area.

1:  The beach where enemy resistance was most fierce on D-Day was OMAHA beach, not UTAH.

2:  The French Government in Paris directed that it was time for French forces to be withdrawn from Indochina after the decimation of the garrison of DIEN BIEN PHU.  French Forces in Vietnam still could have pursued the Communists, but like the American government in 1967 the people and government lost heart.

And would you please care to explain your 'scoring' system?

huh... I thought there was SEE

RE:1) always get them confused, I knew it wasn't sword  

RE:2) The government never lost heart! we were still loking at ways to get at them but it was the PUBLIC that said no. remember the 60's... dumb Q... well all the "peace" stuff really got to the governmen't and we didn't want a civil conflict to erupt.

RE: SCORING) Just to show how much negitivity you guys gained in the event.

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

I think the bash the french thing is linked to the guilty paranoia thing.

Kind Regards Walker

huh???

Hi Sophion-Black

Usually Guilt makes you paranoid unless you admit you made a mistake or you are already psychotic. It sort of eats away at your psyche.

Christian guilt as a form of social control is based on the concept. Surprisingly lots of criminals actually suffer from it and even reform because of it; that is why true Christian based societies do not throw away key.

France was 100% correct in its assessment of the threat of Iraq the undeniable facts of history and years of US investigations prove this.

I think many of those who continue to bash the French do so out of guilt for what they said about France while trying to bring them in to Gulf War II.

They feel guilty that they were involved in the decision to needlessly kill and maim tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of coalition soldiers for a lie.

The guilt is clawing away at their insides; a Christian might say their conscience is troubling them.

They try to hide from their troubled conscience by denial of the facts i.e. not apologising for getting it wrong and displacement activity i.e. attacking a one time ally for not being fooled along with them.

In the end this failure to deal means they act increasingly erratically and more paranoid.

Kind Regards Walker

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]

The US. only won wars alone against countries which aren't much bigger than Rhode Island. :/ Wars can be won anywhere and different means. There is no pissing match going on but some are trying.

It was made a pissing match by Sophion-Black's rather ignorant statement of French history.

Quote[/b] ]billybob's right (i think). Time to get back on topic.

Uhh...what was the topic?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Uhh...what was the topic?

It seems U.S. Politics is going to take a back burning since there is a verdict for the MJ trial..

[harley 3 1185 0]

Why, USA Politics, of course!! Instead of this fascinating discussion on US and World War history...

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Uhh...what was the topic?

It seems U.S. Politics is going to take a back burning since there is a verdict for the MJ trial..

Not having followed it at all, but I'm guessing he'll be cleared of the main charges. I should point out though, that I know nothing of the trial, so it's just a guess.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Not having followed it at all, but I'm guessing he'll be cleared of the main charges.

Yeah, likely he will be found guilty on some of the lesser charges and be slapped on the wrist.

[denoir 0]

There is one serious problem for his case though. I'm terrible at predicting verdicts, elections, the stock market etc

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

I think the bash the french thing is linked to the guilty paranoia thing.

Kind Regards Walker

huh???

Hi Sophion-Black

Usually Guilt makes you paranoid unless you admit you made a mistake or you are already psychotic. It sort of eats away at your psyche.

Christian guilt as a form of social control is based on the concept. Surprisingly lots of criminals actually suffer from it and even reform because of it; that is why true Christian based societies do not throw away key.

France was 100% correct in its assessment of the threat of Iraq the undeniable facts of history and years of US investigations prove this.

I think many of those who continue to bash the French do so out of guilt for what they said about France while trying to bring them in to Gulf War II.

They feel guilty that they were involved in the decision to needlessly kill and maim tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of coalition soldiers for a lie.

The guilt is clawing away at their insides; a Christian might say their conscience is troubling them.

They try to hide from their troubled conscience by denial of the facts i.e. not apologising for getting it wrong and displacement activity i.e. attacking a one time ally for not being fooled along with them.

In the end this failure to deal means they act increasingly erratically and more paranoid.

Kind Regards Walker

dude... i'm not paraniod. I hate the French because I just do, I'm an American. Thats how it is.

Quote[/b] ]It seems U.S. Politics is going to take a back burning since there is a verdict for the MJ trial

whats up with the judge going out to luch right now? is the jury close to ending this yet?