USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]The Canadian fighters were scrambled right after the ATC asked if the pilot did it by mistake. We of all people should have scrabled too because of all the poeple that want us dead. we didn't know if the pilot was being forced by terrorist to say that. besides, on that quite sunday morning on Oahu there was a radar reading going off the charts before the US was plunged into World War II. If we would have sent a patroll we would have at least had some aircraft in the air. We could have saved many on Ford island and the pacific fleet could have been less destroyed.

okay dude this in no way can compare to the attack on pearl harbor. Also We diverted the plane to Nova Scotia and thats in Canada so its a Canadian problem not an American problem. I'm sure if the pilot didnt divert his course we would have scrambled fighters and most likely shot it down.

[Daniel 0]

He was never on the wrong course, the Hijack warning was set off by a technical fault. There wouldn't have been any need for American aircraft anyway, I'm sure two F18s can take on a civilian airliner.

[SFWanabe 0]

Daniel @ June 03 2005,22:57)]He was never on the wrong course, the Hijack warning was set off by a technical fault. There wouldn't have been any need for American aircraft anyway, I'm sure two F18s can take on a civilian airliner.

CF-18s you mean.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Actually the fight on opium has started in Afghanistan.

Not really Miles. While there is some "action" taken the NATO and US still stays out of it. Karzai won´t have the chances to change much on that as 60% of the GDP base on opium. The rate of opium has grown significantly when the Taleban have been removed from power. The Brits tried to talk to opium farmers and were able to buy some old equipment from them but the farmers happily took the money and invested into new agricultural gear they use for , you guessed it, opium cultivation. The afghan farmers don´t feel guilty in any way for cultivating opium. They have to feed their families and the warlords pay good prices for raw opium or refine it on their own. They have almost completely taken over the raw opium market in Afghanistan and have big financial interests in it. There are already Colombian-style cartells building in Afghanistan with armies and good equipment. Karzai himself refuses to use aerial spraying of opium fields for good reasons. The NA has made clear more than once that he should not interfere their business as the security provided to him by US forces isn´t as present as they are in the country.

The NA is a heavy weight. They have control over a tank force of at least 500 T55 and T62 tanks, provided by Russia to fight the Mujahedin along with an uncounted number of Frog7 and LunaM AA rockets and tons of small arms and ammunition.

Uzbekistan donated unknown numbers of tanks and aircrafts to them to create a stable safezone buffer between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan.

We are not talking about government forces here but a private army that has it´s very own vision of afghanistan that does not fit the Karzai vision.

Karzai never really was affiliated to the NA as he is from a rival tribe. The NA mainly consists of Tajik from the Panjsher valley while Karzai is from the Pashtuns who also gave birth to the Taleban. Pashtuns are the ethnical majority in Afghanistan.

The NA has made clear that Karzai should watch his steps by threatening him pretty direct.

Quote[/b] ]The warning was carried in an editorial of the Payame Mujahid Weekly, which reflects the views of the dominant Tajik faction of the alliance. It also questioned the prominent role apparently being played by the 87-year-old former king Mohammad Zahir Shah.

"We are of the opinion that Mr. Karzai still has the opportunity once again to review his acts and correct his policies," it said.

"Otherwise, relying on some American guards and walking without deliberation, can ensure risky consequences for Karzai´s government," it said without elaborating on the dangers.

Don´t forget that there has already been an assasination attempt on him back in 2002.

Quote[/b] ]Also its very presumptuous to link all the crime in Afghanistan to drug lords. There are ALOT of guns in Afghanistan and I don't see why its always the warlords responsible.

Not if you look at the structure of Afghanistans provinces. Warlords do not control villages or empty landscapes. They have control over complete provinces, which includes control over police, jurisdiction and population. They are not comparable to african warlords who often only control their own militia and reap the country. Afghan warlords are accepted leaders of provinces and they do control every single thing there. They are the ones coordinating and financing the drug business and the acts that ensure that drug business is not disturbed. This includes hostage taking, rapings, murder, blackmailing and abuse on a great scale.

The warlords are already part of the political process and daily life as they have ever been in Afghanistan. They even sit in some ministries. Karzai moves on very thin ice and has his hands bound for exactly those reasons.

Quote[/b] ]There have only been a relatively small number of attacks on aid workers and reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan compared to the daily attacks on contractors in Iraq.

I guess you can´t compare both conflicts.

Quote[/b] ]Its a slow gradual process and trying to rush into by getting the US military or NATO to go in guns blazing is NOT a recipe for a stable Afghanistan.

Did I say so ?

Quote[/b] ]You seem to have the cynical view that Afghanistan is a lost cause.

No. I refuse to accept that. It´s just a close look on reality there. I also don´t think NATO will stay there forever, which would be needed to uphold the status quo.

The initial idea of democracy may be a good thing for us here in the western hemisphere, while the people in Afghanistan have a very different view on the life they want to live. Once again we just don´t get that there are other ways of living together that are not west-indoctrinated. You can print brochures, get PR teams around and when you leave they will use the brochures to make fire and will tell nightlong stories of how stupid the PR teams looked. You know what I´m trying to say ? You can only try to offer something to people, but you have to leave it to them what they make of it. If they want their local law and jurisdiction, the strong place of believe in their daily life and want to keep their holy autonomy, let them have it ! Who are we to tell them how they should lead their lives ?

This will never work in longterm. They see what all this leads to and lead to and they have been cheated so many times, that they just don´t care what we say anymore. They take everything you offer them, but you don´t have to be surprised if they throw youz out of the country oneday.

It´s just like that.

Quote[/b] ] I think it is foolish to believe that we must hasten this potential clash and force the medicine of civilization and democracy down their throat.

I agree and never said anything different.

Quote[/b] ]Is the US still training and equipping warlords?

Yes

Quote[/b] ]Continuing to arm the NA would only further weaken the central government.

The NA is the only reason why there is a government right now.

They know that and they want their piece of the pie. A big piece. They see themselves as the liberators of Afghanistan.

Quote[/b] ] If its the warlords encouraging lawlessness you try and convince them that security means more trade into his district and thus more revenue for him and his people.

Hehe, wrong point. There is stability. Warlord stability. A warlord or his fellow troops will never have any problems there as they are the problem. You get the idea ? There are hardly rogue bandit groups. Warlords take care of anyone mangling in their area.

Quote[/b] ]Working with the local mosques can also help.

It could have helped, but these chances were missed and today the distrust is so big that they will not believe a single word anymore. Several incidents that the west was responsible for, shut down these pathways.

Quote[/b] ]If the warrior culture is the main problem as you say, well how can that culture be subverted to sell democracy?

Good question. If I knew the answer I´d have a big cheque each month I guess. It´s a problem that hasn´t been solved by top-paid analysts and advisors.

Quote[/b] ]Can't Afghan warriors be depicted as defenders of democracy in propaganda?

You know, you need to have a positive meaning of democracy in the heads of Afghans first. Democracy is a term we all know ell and regard it as a positive thing while in Afghanistan it has no real meaning as they simply don´t really know if it is good or bad, or western influenced or eastern influenced. There needs to be an autonomy and self-control attitude. This is very much hindered by the schmemes of local power and religion in Afghanistan. Also the country itself makes it very hard to spread word about such things. Kabul was a bright light in the 70´s and is on it´s way to it again, but Kabul is only a needlehead with no significance for the whole county. It wasn´t in the 70´s and it is not today.

Quote[/b] ]Nevertheless I refuse to believe that a "kick all their asses" methodology is the way to go in Afghanistan. That will do nothing more then unify opposition against the West in Afghanistan and bring about the downfall of the Karzai government.

Well, this method of appraoch has been taken in the initial start-phase of the war, as Afghanistan was labelled completely bad. The sentiments are there and we have to accept that we are the ones who declared a whole country enemy for the doings of saudi-arabians who decided to fly some planes into the monument of capitalism. Face it. We have collectively punished them for some freaks hiding in their mountains.

Karzai is a smart one, noone denies that, but his role abraod, when speaking at the EU, UN, Senate, Parliaments worldwide is much more higher than in his own country. Sad thing, but true thing.

Nethertheless I enjoy this really interesting change of thoughts with you Miles. It´s nice to see that you are really thinking about issues.

A good discussion is very welcome !

But before the mods hop in, I guess we should better carry it on in the "war on terror" thread as we were drifting away from the intial thread.

Anyway, I hope the mods do understand that we talked about it here as the matter arose from the USA politics thread.

[Sophion-Black 0]

We diverted the plane to Nova Scotia and thats in Canada so its a Canadian problem not an American problem...

it was our problem still it was an american imbound aircraft. what would have happened if the plane exploded on canadian soil. They might get a little ticked off because they got our bullet. The target of the airbus was JFK not Halifax, so it was our problem. We should at least have the curtisey to help out is what i'm saying.

[SFWanabe 0]

We diverted the plane to Nova Scotia and thats in Canada so its a Canadian problem not an American problem...

it was our problem still it was an american imbound aircraft. what would have happened if the plane exploded on canadian soil. They might get a little ticked off because they got our bullet. The target of the airbus was JFK not Halifax, so it was our problem. We should at least have the curtisey to help out is what i'm saying.

Well we didnt. I know it pisses you off that you prolly that we didnt waste jet fuel on a hoax,but you need to get over it and drop it.

[Sophion-Black 0]

well i guess you dont understand were i'm comming from here, if the plane crashed or exploded in NY...

1) I get a call from my COC telling me to get my ass to formation with full SAR gear.

2) I get strapped in a plane and head to the site because of my squadron type

3) I spend a lot of time searching for the "black box". Most likeley in a rural area with my luck

4) I help create a human fence around the box and if the press decides to enter, i dance to stay in there way so they can't enter.

That scare kinda hit close to home for me so thats why im so... fidgety with the subject. anyways what about this piece of article

Quote[/b] ]U.S.: Gitmo Quran Was Splashed With Urine

Updated 2:49 PM ET June 4, 2005

U.S. military officials say no guard at the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects flushed a detainee's Quran down the toilet, but they disclosed that a Muslim holy book was splashed with urine. In other newly disclosed incidents, a detainee's Quran was deliberately kicked and another's was stepped on.

On March 25, a detainee complained to guards that "urine came through an air vent" and splashed on him and his Quran. A guard admitted he was at fault, but a report released Friday evening offering new details about Quran mishandling incidents did not make clear whether the guard intended the result... MORE

don't know what there doing but i can say its the stupidist thing i ever heard someone do.

[denoir 0]

don't know what there doing but i can say its the stupidist thing i ever heard someone do.

Except of course admitting to it. What exactly do they think they are going to accomplish by publishing the results of such an inquiry? Do they really think Muslims around the world are going to think "Oh, well, at least they are honest about it", or do you think they will be focusing on the quran urine thingie?

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think you are confusing fantasy with reality again. I know that the US military is streched thinly, but I really doubt that they send up 16 year olds on CAPs.

Yea hes right trust me I was in CAP. The last number they'll call is CAP kid, sorry to burst your bubble. We had a chopper crash just 5 miles from where I lived at the time and guess who was first there? the county fire dept. SAR team. so CAP is nothing more than a fancy AFJROTC program. I've only been on one actual SAR mission and that was to find a hiker who got lost. They train you for all this shit but because your a kid they wont call you unless your a pilot to do air recon.

[denoir 0]

Ok, I misunderstood his post, I thought it was in reference to scrambling fighters to intercept the jet. Never mind then.

btw. With "CAP", I was referring to "Combat Air Patrol" - a general term for fighters guarding an area or object against hostile aircraft.

[Daniel 0]

Why are there people stupid enough to pee down airvents onto a Quran in a high security prison of such importance?

[SFWanabe 0]

Ok, I misunderstood his post, I thought it was in reference to scrambling fighters to intercept the jet. Never mind then.

btw. With "CAP", I was referring to "Combat Air Patrol" - a general term for fighters guarding an area or object against hostile aircraft.

Well still you were right ether way. He is confusing real life with his own personnal fantsay of himself.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Except of course admitting to it. What exactly do they think they are going to accomplish by publishing the results of such an inquiry? Do they really think Muslims around the world are going to think "Oh, well, at least they are honest about it", or do you think they will be focusing on the quran urine thingie?

Don't worry, Denior, the ACLU are trying to push to release more Abu graib prison photos. They got a New York judge to agree with them...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....cords_1

Quote[/b] ]

NEW YORK - A federal judge has told the government it will have to release additional pictures of detainee abuse at     Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, civil rights lawyers said.

Judge Alvin Hellerstein, finding the public has a right to see the pictures, told the government Thursday he will sign an order requiring it to release them to the  American Civil Liberties Union, the lawyers said.

Stop using your heart too much and think. Those photos cause nothing positive to say the least but cause negative feelings. Why can't these folks just wait....

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Except of course admitting to it. What exactly do they think they are going to accomplish by publishing the results of such an inquiry? Do they really think Muslims around the world are going to think "Oh, well, at least they are honest about it", or do you think they will be focusing on the quran urine thingie?

Don't worry, Denior, the ACLU are trying to push to release more Abu graib prison photos. They got a New York judge to agree with them...

And so they should. It's not ACLU's job to cover up the human rights violations of the US military. On the contrary, their role is quite the opposite - to ensure transparancy as it in the long run has civil rights implications at home as well.

I'm just questioning the wisdom of the US military of doing an inquiry of its own, and especially the wisdom of publishing the results. Transparancy may be a good principle in the longer run, but the short terms effect in this case can only be bad.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]And so they should. It's not ACLU's job to cover up the human rights violations of the US military. On the contrary, their role is quite the opposite - to ensure transparancy as it in the long run has civil rights implications at home as well.

I'm just questioning the wisdom of the US military of doing an inquiry of its own, and especially the wisdom of publishing the results. Transparancy may be a good principle in the longer run, but the short terms effect in this case can only be bad.

I agree photos should be released (not all of them) but the Iraqi insurgency and WoT is going on right now. They serve nothing right now but to create negative feelings towards the US. Personally, they should wait for a set number of years and then release them (ie. like the British did with WWII docs.). Independent inquiries are just like military inquiries in reguard to they are good in the long run but are bad in the short term.

[denoir 0]

I agree photos should be released (not all of them) but the Iraqi insurgency and WoT is going on right now. They serve nothing right now but to create negative feelings towards the US. Personally, they should wait for a set number of years and then release them (ie. like the British did with WWII docs.). Independent inquiries are just like military inquiries in reguard to they are good in the long run but are bad in the short term.

The problem with Abu Ghraib is that it was never cleared up. Sure some lowlife guards got punished, but it was never followed up to the origin - higher up in the chain of command. There is plenty of evidence implicating Pentagon in it, but the whole thing was written off as a case of a bunch of sadist individuals amusing themselves.

It is most certainly in the interest of the US public (and that's where ACLU comes in) to what degree the US government was involved in it all. Their solution with Guantanamo is very questionable - it is not beyond reason that they might be tempted using similar methods in the US. So if you want to ensure the civil rights of the US population, you want transparency.

So I fully understand why the ACLU is pursuing it.

[SFWanabe 0]

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The problem with Abu Ghraib is that it was never cleared up. Sure some lowlife guards got punished, but it was never followed up to the origin - higher up in the chain of command. There is plenty of evidence implicating Pentagon in it, but the whole thing was written off as a case of a bunch of sadist individuals amusing themselves.

It is most certainly in the interest of the US public (and that's where ACLU comes in) to what degree the US government was involved in it all. Their solution with Guantanamo is very questionable - it is not beyond reason that they might be tempted using similar methods in the US. So if you want to ensure the civil rights of the US population, you want transparency.

So I fully understand why the ACLU is pursuing it.

Yeah, I understand why the ACLU is pursing it but should they be asking for more documents instead of asking for more photos. They already got 36,000 pages on treatment of detainees in U.S. custody. You are not going to see a general posing in front of inmates. There is no real cause now to release more Abu Graib photos because it's not going to go up the CoC. You can't go the high road always first and expect to win.

Quote[/b] ]

[Akira 0]

Ah yes....Texas....

Quote[/b] ]Texas bills to be signed at conservative church

By Scott Gold

Los Angeles Times

HOUSTON – Advocates for the separation of church and state are protesting Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s plans to hold a bill-signing ceremony at a conservative evangelical church. One bill restricts abortion; a second calls for a ban on same-sex marriage.

The event is scheduled for today at a Christian school run by Calvary Cathedral International, one of the largest churches in Fort Worth. National leaders of the religious conservative movement, including Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, are scheduled to attend.

Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, sent Perry a letter Thursday asking him “in the strongest terms possible†to change the venue.

In an interview, Lynn, also a United Church of Christ minister, called the event a “grotesque misuse of religion for a clear partisan political advantage.â€

Perry spokeswoman Kathy Walt said the ceremony will not take place inside the church, but in the gymnasium of the church’s Calvary Christian Academy next door.

“The critics are generally those who object to people of faith participating in government or in the electoral process,†Walt said. “There are a number of critics who would object to this bill-signing whether it were in a private school, a public school or a Wal-Mart parking lot, because they are opposed to pro-life and pro-family legislative issues.â€

Lynn said that if the event is held as billed, he will ask the Internal Revenue Service to investigate whether the church’s tax-exempt status should be lifted because churches are supposed to avoid partisan politics.

Charlie Prior, Calvary’s business administrator, said the church’s tax status would not be affected because the event is being held at the church school, not inside the sanctuary.

The first bill Perry plans to sign requires minors to receive written permission from their parents before they can receive an abortion. The second, subject to approval of voters in the fall, would amend the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage and civil unions.

Texas law defines marriage as being between one man and one woman, but Perry has said that the additional measure would affirm “the sacred institution of marriage.â€

Perry’s signature of that bill is merely ceremonial; proposed constitutional amendments are sent directly to voters by the legislature and do not require the governor’s involvement.

Perry is up for re-election next year and is facing potentially fierce competition from fellow Republicans in the primary. He has been governor since December 2000, when George W. Bush won the presidency.

Critics said they are troubled that local GOP leaders encouraged him to film the ceremony and use the footage in his campaign. Perry sent an e-mail to supporters asking that the church be filled for the event with “pro-family Christian friends.â€

I can only look forward to the coming election when Perry is sure to get booted the hell out of office.

Oh yes. And still no school finance...

[SpongeBob 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bill to equip ammo with serial numbers passes state Senate

By James P. Sweeney

COPLEY NEWS SERVICE

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050603/news_1n3bullets.html

SACRAMENTO – A novel proposal to etch identifying serial numbers on handgun ammunition sold in California narrowly passed the Senate yesterday, although supporters conceded the legislation remains a work in progress.

The measure, Senate Bill 357, passed on a bare-majority, 21-14 vote that split along party lines, with Democrats in support. The vote sent the bill to the Assembly, which has long been the decisive battleground for gun-control initiatives.

A related measure, to require manufacturers to equip some semiautomatic handguns with components that would place an identifying code on spent cartridges, passed the Assembly 41-38 and was sent to the Senate.

The Senate measure is sponsored by Attorney General Bill Lockyer but so far has drawn tepid support from the balance of the state's law enforcement community. It would link purchasers to handgun ammunition through an electronic swipe of a driver license at the point of sale.

Manufacturers say the proposal would force drastic changes to a high-volume, low-margin business. The required modifications to the manufacturing process, the companies warned, would either drive them out of business or send consumer prices skyward.

Sen. Joseph Dunn, a Garden Grove Democrat who introduced the bill for Lockyer, said he is working with law enforcement groups to resolve concerns about how to treat a massive existing inventory, possession of unmarked ammunition in homes and an exemption sought for shooting ranges.

Sen Bill Morrow, R-Oceanside, illustrated the magnitude of the potential ammunition stockpile in the state. He has used about half of a substantial supply his father left when he died in 1981, Morrow said.

"If I plan right, I figure it will get me through the rest of my life," Morrow said.

Morrow and other opponents questioned whether the proposal, which has never been attempted anywhere else, was technologically feasible. Aides to Lockyer said manufacturers place individual serial numbers on many different consumer products.

The Assembly bill, AB 352 by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, would apply only to future production of easily concealable semiautomatic handguns that have not passed a state safety test.

"I'll have a box of "1337" bullets, please."

[General Barron 0]

I don't know if you guys have been discussing the Washington state Gubinatorial election fiasco or not (Shinraiden and myself being the only WA residents that I know of), but the judge just gave his ruling. In summary (from memory):

# of votes Gregiore won by: 142

# of illegal votes cast: 1,678

Who those illegal votes were cast for: No way to tell

Ruling: It doesn't matter if the margin of error exceeds the margin of victory: the court has no legal authority to do anything unless it can be proven to whom those votes were cast.

I don't know how to put my feelings into words. This is a sad day.

My brother was disenfranchised. He was denied his most precious fucking right as an American. At the time, he was over-seas in Iraq, and those incompetent fuckers at King County sent his (and all other overseas military ballots) too late. This was illegal, and the county executive Ron Sims doesn't care. Voters who were illegally denied their right to vote were not even a factor in the above court finding.

The ruling seems to follow the law correctly, but this doesn't feel just. How can you uphold an election when you do not know who won, as was stated by the court? If the court had given the election to Rossi, it wouldn't have seemed right either. I think a re-vote would have been the most just solution, but unfortunately it was not allowed for in state law.

But another election could have the exact same problems, because the same shameless, incompetent people are in power, and the same faulty laws and systems are in place. Yet, that a$$-hole Ron Sims still thinks his (King) county had an error rate that "any bank would envy", and says nothing about firing Dean Logan, Ms. Way, or anyone else. The state legislature isn't planning on passing real election reforms, like requiring picture ID at the polls, to prevent future mishaps. In short: the democrats who have the power in this state are just maintaining the status quo. Even though the status quo is not serving the democratic rights of the people.

The party democrats don't seem to give a rat's ass about the people--about democracy--only about winning. The republicans may be the same way, but this is my little corner of the earth, and currently it is the dems who are #$ing it up. And it's not just the state party. Where the hell is Barbara Boxer and the others to cry about how important it is to have fair elections? No where to be found of course, because things went their way here. Who cares how many people were disenfranchised: if they don't vote democratic, then they don't matter.

Democracy is broken in Washington State.

[Sophion-Black 0]

damn... thats got to suck...

Quote[/b] ]

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Article [i.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Quote[/b] ]

redress- the setting right of what is wrong

also the closest amendment to this situation is XXVI but it says:

Quote[/b] ]

AMENDMENT XXVI

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.

Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

I'd start writing, but I have say to say it: that is a huge head-up-the-a$$ moment.

[shinRaiden 0]

Amen Gen. B, it's a sad day for democracy in Washington State, and will likely be sustained by inaction from the State Supreme Court. My condolences to your brother, and thank you to the both of you for your service.

I listened to all 55 minutes of the decision this morning, including the first 45 minutes where the Judge clearly laid out all the details of the case and castigated the ineptitude of (Monarchy)* County's Department of Elections and their gross negligence in the past elections.

Basically, there were a thousand aggragete ballots counted that were ruled illegal...

* Provisionals without voters

* Absentees without voters

* Felons without restored civil rights

* Dead people

* Double-voters

* Mentally incapacited

The Judge said that according to all the laws on the books, that to win an election contest the petioner must present proof matching names of illegal voters to actual votes cast. State and Federal elections privacy laws specifically prohibit any such records. So in order to have a fraudulent election tossed out, you have to have name-to-vote records that are illegal to maintain. This way he shook his gavel at (Monarchy) County and said "you're very bad, have your voters clean up your act", then do effectively nothing at all. Since there was no "proof" who the 1000+ voters voted for in the 129 vote margin, or if they even voted at all, all he did was "change" the total number of ballots counted on record, and do nothing about anything else.

Thus the Judge outlined a very clear method for reliable elections hijacking : (all of this was from sworn testimony or depositions)

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>HOW TO STEAL AN ELECTION IN WASHINGTON STATE :</span>

1) Print the Federally mandated military ballots and hide them in the mail room until it's too late to actually mail, then claim you mailed them "on time".

(This is where Gen. B's brother, thousands of fellow Washington State residents, and some who died fighting for the rights of the Iraqi people to vote, got deliberately screwed over. I say deliberately because this is exactly what has happened over the past several elections with exactness each time.)

2) Make sure the ballot printing machines are insecured and ballots-on-demand are available for poll workers to control in an unmonitored fasion.

3) Take Federally required provisionals or locally authorized absentee ballots and stuff them into the scanners or ballot boxes. Be descreet about it so the poll workers don't catch on. Especially target busy precients, and areas with dodgy get-out-the-vote machines.

4) Ram through the counting process to count the ballots before you get a chance to double-check the voter rolls or confirm mailed in-votes.

5) Mix all the different ballot types together in big bins so that nobody knows what is a poll ballot to be counted now, what's an absentee to be checked, and what's a provisional to set aside.

6) When in doubt, mark the ballot permanently with what you think is the voter's intent, and mark it so no original marks can be seen.

7) If you get caught, shuffle staff with the adjoining counties as they're all close family members in the Auditing and Elections departments.

8) Wait until the very last required days to release supeona'd records to wait until the public forgets.

9) If the numbers at the end of the ballot reconciliation reports don't match the numbers at the beginning, fudge the numbers at the beginning to make them match the ones at the end.

10) Stall until all the other jurisdictions are done counting, so you know exactly how many of whose ballots to misfile in the side bin.

--------

* (Monarchy) County was originally named after Rufus DeVane King, a US Vice President a long time ago. However, local ignorant activists pressured the local apparatchik's to change the official naming to honor a prominent civil rights - not minority rights - activist, who's legacy has been tarnished and hijacked by those claiming to be his idealogical heirs. The result of this is that any official usage of the name, image, monniker, etc, will result in hefty and legally secure royalty payments to the trustees of his estate.

[SFWanabe 0]

I stole the election for High School president

[shinRaiden 0]

damn... thats got to suck...

Quote[/b] ]

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Article [i.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Quote[/b] ]

redress- the setting right of what is wrong

also the closest amendment to this situation is XXVI but it says:

Quote[/b] ]

AMENDMENT XXVI

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.

Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

I'd start writing, but I have say to say it: that is a huge head-up-the-a$$ moment.

The so-called Constitution of the United States has little or no effect in the "state" of Washington. Of course, if you parse words as devil's-advocate, there is the right to petion for redress of injustice, but there's no obligation that redress be considered.

The alleged Governer of the state made sure to railroad through the following among other items before this court hearing...

* provisions that entrench the corruption in the elections system

* drop a 9 & 1/2 cent hike in the gas tax to make the state the most onnerously taxed for the privilege of sitting parked in traffic on roads that are deliberately undersized to preven the spawl of the blight known as humanity,

* the adoption of the eco-facist repressive environmental policies of California,

* Gutting of voter initiatives attempting to curb the rampant growth of beauracracy,

* Repeal of business relief provisions, and the addition of additional heavy burdens on the backs of small business and farmers,

* Implementation of poison-pill measures to prevent the division of (Monarchy) County,

to add to the growing list of abuses of illegitimate office.

(Monarchy) County has been at the forefront of the regressive entrenchment of the establishment. Among other outrages, they have passed ordinances prohibiting rural landowners from occupying, clearing, "trespassing" on, or in any way disturbing up to 65% of the allegedly deeded property on which they pay taxes, in order to protect non-native species and artifical wetlands caused by the county refusing to clean the ditches until the backed-up drains become in the view of the court "pre-existing wetlands".

The county executive has furthermore layered his management in such a way that there is an internal investigation gestapo that reports only to the county executive, and polices all county employees to restrict them from communicating with the County Council. The office of County Auditor is combined with that of Director of Elections, so the Director of Elections audits himself, and being appointed by the Executive, only reports to the guy who signs his paycheck.

For decades (Monarchy) County has had pristine elections, and it was former heads of the Department of Elections that were the models for effieceny, competency, and accuracy for the entire country, they were even brought in as consultants to cleanup other jurisdictions because of their integrity and competency. The current county executive, detested even by his own Democratic party, upon entering office immediately sacked all the department heads and replaced them with crony's, loyal party hacks, and other inept persons unqualified for their positions, in an effort to maintain perpetual chaos so that situations like this past election could be maintained.

The tried-and-true process was thrown out, as well as those experienced in administering the due process of the elections. Lack of training or ethics is rampant from top to bottom in the elections department, leaving the volunteer poll workers clueless about legal requirements and proceedures required to maintain honorable and accountable elections.