Rifle scopes

[Longinius 1]

Hey all you snipers and wannabes out there.

I am doing some research into scopes, and could use some feedback by those in the now.

I am interested in the field of digital scopes, in other words, scopes that portray an image of the target and not necesserily rely on the user having to look through the classic lense system, but a screen instead.

Do these kind of scopes exist? If so, are they used and are they any good?

[Balschoiw 0]

Hmm never seen such. What do you specifically mean ?

I use the NSA80 with my AG36. It´s a night vision device.

Of course it doesn´t use thermal imaging and that´s the thing I guess you point on.

Edit: Of course, any scope could be used with a projection system for displaying the scope sight on a screen. It´s just an optical principle but makes little sense as an open screen would make you an illuminated target. Remote systems are used for heavy and stationary weapons and some remote controlled sentry guns. But I´m not sure if we should talk about that here

[stgn 39]

I don't think snipers use shouch kind of scopes shouch are only used in things that drive shouch as the "commander independend thermal view" on the M1A2 Abrams tank. you realy don't need it on a sniper rifle as it would only increase whight and would limit your view extremly if you wanted to be in complete cover when you shoot. I know that shouch a system was used on that M4 "OICW" configuration which was used some time ago in the US future soldier program or whats it called. whether it worked or not I don't know but I haven't seen it fielded.

STGN

[Bordoy 0]

I don't think snipers use shouch kind of scopes shouch are only used in things that drive shouch as the "commander independend thermal view" on the M1A2 Abrams tank. you realy don't need it on a sniper rifle as it would only increase whight and would limit your view extremly if you wanted to be in complete cover when you shoot. I know that shouch a system was used on that M4 "OICW" configuration which was used some time ago in the US future soldier program or whats it called. whether it worked or not I don't know but I haven't seen it fielded.

STGN

OICW has been scrapped

[stgn 39]

I don't think snipers use shouch kind of scopes shouch are only used in things that drive shouch as the "commander independend thermal view" on the M1A2 Abrams tank. you realy don't need it on a sniper rifle as it would only increase whight and would limit your view extremly if you wanted to be in complete cover when you shoot. I know that shouch a system was used on that M4 "OICW" configuration which was used some time ago in the US future soldier program or whats it called. whether it worked or not I don't know but I haven't seen it fielded.

STGN

OICW has been scrapped

I know but don't you remember seeing that Colt M4A1 wiht the digital sight as on the OICW, and I saw pictures of a cabel going form the sight to the googles the soldier had on and he holding the gun op over his head firing uot of a building while he was in "total" cover.

STGN

[Balschoiw 0]

Yes, some kind of HUD for the OICW was in testing, but I guess humans in battle scenarios are just too busy with keeping oversight that a projection of gunsight would just hinder them. At least that´s what I think. There were also plans to establish a 360 degree view in helmet HUD´s, but it failed as humans are...well...limited in focussing attention.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]OICW has been scrapped

Really? I'd say that's good news. Personally, I wish that military had researched a more practical and powerful long-range/CQB weapon (Like a .280 bullpup) than spend millions researching that humongous monster called the OICW. Can you imagine trying to use that thing in urban combat? Not to mention the potential joys of failing batteries .

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

the OICW hasn't been completely scrapped.

But they did indeed started to develop the two parts as independent weapon sytems.

-A 25mm 'grenade-launcher', which is more like a cannon.

-A 5.56/6.8 rifle (XM-8).

With the current technology it just isen't possible to create a rifle like the OICW that is light enough to be actually used.

The sytems (also including a new helmet, bodyarmor, LBV, radio-system, field-laptop ect. ect) is called the landwarrior system.

Failing batteries??

I assume you don't know a lot about the modern military? Most modern scopes use batteries to function (Holo, reflex, red dot). Hell, the more modern butts for the M4 have special holes to store batteries. It's not uncommon to do a battery check before a mission.

[Commander-598 0]

I think by batteries, he meant something along the lines of a 40 pound(I think) battery.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I assume you don't know a lot about the modern military? Most modern scopes use batteries to function (Holo, reflex, red dot). Hell, the more modern butts for the M4 have special holes to store batteries. It's not uncommon to do a battery check before a mission.

Of course I know batteries are very common (I haven't believed in magic-powered lights for a long time). But an attached M203 will still work if a battery fails, whereas a batteryless OICW will lose much of the power of its 20mm system if its battery fails. Without the battery, you're stuck with direct impact mode, where *AFAIK* the 40mm ammo fired by the M203 is much more powerful than the 20mm ammo fired by the OICW.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] where *AFAIK* the 40mm ammo fired by the M203 is much more powerful than the 20mm ammo fired by the OICW.

Ever tried to shoot a 40mm on more than 200m´s through a window ?

20mm ammo is much more easier to shoot and the range for visual shots is comparable much higher than for the 40mm nades. Even if the OICW comp doesn´t work as a result of battery failure you still have the regular visor for the nades.

And the reload time of 20mm compared to 40mm makes it another blast. While you can shoot 6 nades of 20mm in a row with the OICW, it´s single shot and reload action with the M203.

As a matter of fact I´d prefer the rate and the technical benefits to the M203 and the launcher currently attached to my AG36.

The OICW uses nearly the same optics as the OCSW, that allows target tracking, locking, automatic adjusted aimpoint , laser range designator, humidity detector, wind detector, temperature detection, that influence the calculations of the comp and adjust your aimpoint correspondently.

The OICW might look not that cool, but that´s the future. It´s much lighter than the M16 with optics and M203 and offers 4 different firing modes for 20mm grenades that do make sense.

1. Bursting, nade will explode inair above your enemy

2. Point Detonation, nade will explode on impact

3. Point Delay Detonation, weak targets will be penetrated and after the nade is in it will explode.

4. Window, let the nade explode at a predefined range.

Note that 20mm OICW nades have an effective radius of eliminating hostiles within 6 m´s.

Apart from the longer range you can fire nades precisly at targets, it gives you all the help you need to elimiate your targets very fast and efficient.

Even if the OICW will not be taken into service today, we will see the technical concept again in multiple variations.

The days of M16+M203 are over.

[stgn 39]

Quote[/b] ] where *AFAIK* the 40mm ammo fired by the M203 is much more powerful than the 20mm ammo fired by the OICW.

Ever tried to shoot a  40mm on more than 200m´s through a window ?

20mm ammo is much more easier to shoot and the range for visual shots is comparable much higher than for the 40mm nades. Even if the OICW comp doesn´t work as a result of battery failure you still have the regular visor for the nades.

And the reload time of 20mm compared to 40mm makes it another blast. While you can shoot 6 nades of 20mm in a row with the OICW, it´s single shot and reload action with the M203.

As a matter of fact I´d prefer the rate and the technical benefits to the M203 and the launcher currently attached to my AG36.

The OICW uses nearly the same optics as the OCSW, that allows target tracking, locking, automatic adjusted aimpoint , laser range designator, humidity detector, wind detector, temperature detection, that influence the calculations of the comp and adjust your aimpoint correspondently.

The OICW might look not that cool, but that´s the future. It´s much lighter than the M16 with optics and M203 and offers 4 different firing modes for 20mm grenades that do make sense.

1. Bursting, nade will explode inair above your enemy

2. Point Detonation, nade will explode on impact

3. Point Delay Detonation, weak targets will be penetrated and after the nade is in it will explode.

4. Window, let the nade explode at a predefined range.

Note that 20mm OICW nades have an effective radius of eliminating hostiles within 6 m´s.

Apart from the longer range you can fire nades precisly at targets, it gives you all the help you need to elimiate your targets very fast and efficient.

Even if the OICW will not be taken into service today, we will see the technical concept again in multiple variations.

The days of M16+M203 are over.

Well your are problerly right that a OICW type weapon is the future for the granadier.

But is it just me or can't you realy compare the two cause its two different kinds of weapon. cause as the M203 gives a granade capability to the rifle as a support in combat the OICW is a granade "cannon" which you put a PDW(personal defence weapon) on and its primary function is grannades because of the shots barrel of the weapon atacthed to it has which dosen't make it ideal for rifle shoting aslo the OICW is mag fed onlike the single shot M203.

and the M203 has its strenth in being small and can sit right under the barrel and dosen't take up as much space ex. I think I would prefere a M203 in a CQB situation as the weapon would be smaller and easier manuverable and I would be able to shoot more consealed form a corner wiht the barrel being on top. Also i could remain my firepower whit the longer barrel.

Also what bull is wind and temperature dection how the "bib" are the weapon gona know what the tempersture and wind speed is in front of it, normaly you try to find cover and shadow as it hides you best and then the weapon will think your in a cold, lightly windy place or the other way around and make a rong calulation which will result in you missing, you as a person can much better and problery faster see what would be the best way too shoot(offcause you need expirence to do that).

STGN

[Balschoiw 0]

Sure, it´s hard to compare the OICW to any other weapon system as it is a totally new concept for nade support on long ranges (1000 m´s with 20mm). For sure the OICW or any other of that "new generation" weapons will not be used on squad strength. It will be a part of the pack and I´m pretty sure it will have it´s role in combat.

Well regular rifle shooting isn´t the big deal as it bases on the HK G36K. So with a length of 240 mm the barrel in combination with the FCS is actually sufficient for todays scenarios. Apart from that you have 6 funny friends in your mag that will definately give you the chance to fight targets on much greater distance than with the 40mm popper.

The M16 with atttached M203 and optics has a weight of 7.3 kilos while the OICW only weights 6.35 kilos. So infact the OICW is lighter than the M16+M203.

I think we have to keep in mind that the OICW is a new concept, especially for delivering ranged ammo with a blast area of 6 m´s and is indeed suitable for urban scenarios a lot. I´d name it an intelligent cleaner as it allows you to lay fire on targets in a much more precise and different way as the M16+M203 allows today.

Quote[/b] ]you as a person can much better and problery faster see what would be the best way too shoot(offcause you need expirence to do that).

Well the inbuilt target recognition and tracking system will make your day a better one, as the FCS automatically recognizes targets and highlights them in the display.

If you want to know more about the FCS and the sight you get with the OICW just check out this PDF:

OICW Fire Control system

It´s not only the OICW that is going that direction.

The low budget israeli version of a HUD weapon is the IMI Tavor Assault Rifle (TAR), here with the Mitz'nefet helmet.

I guess that´s the way it goes. Technical assisted long range firing and target recognition and tracking.

[LyotchikSniper 261]