Realism vs. Playability

[Noone 4]

In our upcoming mod i am considering making some stats changing to make the whole thing more realistic, for example :

any tank will be killed maximum from the 2nd shell

any tank will be killed if hit by ATM

any chopper goes down if hit by a SAM, exept Mi24 - 2 SAMs

etc

I am still considering how to adjust LAW and grenades dammage. Please post your thoughts.

The main drawback of such realism change will be increased challange while playing as a pilot or a tank crew. In fact it can become very challanging.

Come on, share your thoughts !

[King Kong 0]

The Mujhadeen needed more then 7 Stingers to bring down a MI24, the only thing that was effective against Hinds was the RPG-7

[King Kong 0]

About the M72 LAW, it's a throw away weapon you can't use it twice(you can in real life but it's not ment for it)

[Noone 4]

"The Mujhadeen needed more then 7 Stingers to bring down a MI24, the only thing that was effective against Hinds was the RPG-7"

I'll check that out.

"About the M72 LAW, it's a throw away weapon you can't use it twice(you can in real life but it's not ment for it)"

Yeah, but to prevent LAW from reloading in OFP, err... what can we really do ?

[theavonlady 2]

I have a theory about reloadable LAWs. Search The FAQ for "reload law".

[King Kong 0]

Yes, it is possible to reload M72 LAW's but i don't think it's ment for reloading, the size weight etc.

The RPG-18(similar to the M72 LAW) is also an "throw away"

weapon.

That's why many guerilla or 3rd world countries prefer the RPG-7V1(wich has telescopic sights pgo 7v, some of them even have IR)

the RPG-7 has a better range (300m) while the M72 LAW has a range of 170 to 220 meters.

RPG-7 is far more effective and recoilless, the M72A2 LAW

is basicly a 66 mm SHELL(first series i'm talking about, ment for bunkerbusting in Vietnam) while the RPG-7 is 40 mm HEAT high-explosive antitank(PG-7VL wich is 70mm wich is also capable of penetrating up to 375 millimeters of armor).

I've heard that the M72's iron sights suck.

The LAW is only popular because of it's mobility

Why would you need a M72 LAW for your mod, IDF also uses RPG's and Chinese variants of the AK47.

I think they should add a RPO-A recoilless Flame thrower

wich fires napalm rounds

[Noone 4]

The main light AT weapon in IDF is LAW. I heard about RPG beeing somewhere around out bunker, but never saw it. We used LAWs. And no, there are no AK47 in use with IDF, except for the Mistaaravim unit. But that does not count as they are "imposter" unit, they disguse as arabs to pull covert ops.

[christophercles 0]

I dont think a hind would take 7 stingers to take down, otherwise they wouldnt have been the most effective armour takedown weapon in afganistan. They go for the engine, not the armoured cockpit or the crew area, so where did these stingers hit? the bottom?

[King Kong 0]

Hmmmm, i tought they used it because of it's reliability?

The AK-47 is still the most prefered weapon in the middle -east because of it's reliability, quality, medium accuracy.

It even works when you put it in the mud for 3 weeks without even cleaning it.

It can fire 4000 rounds without jamming wich is very good for a 50 year old gun.

I think all middle-east countries like Saudi Arabia(wich uses the Steyr),Turkey(Turkish G3a3 copy made by MKEK), Iran wich also uses the G3A3, Israel wich uses the M16.

I think they all should replace their primary weapons with AK's or similar ones.

[cervomix 0]

lol the story of the 7 stingers to shot down a hind is real, but it happen once, it's like the SU-25 hit by 2 sidewinders and who continued to fly!

usually they went down by less stingers

[jimz0rz 0]

What about improving the the vehicle damage modeling.

For instance; AT(G)M's, shells fired at tank tracks break them off and render them extremly slow or motionless. Same with car and truck wheels.

- Shooting the commanders periscope , breaking it and making it hard to see (cracked). Or dammaging the driver and gunners optics with AT(G)M's or shell fire.

- Realistic sencondary explosions. Like the magazine, fuel going up.

(Any one seen the vidoes from the gulf war of Iraqi T72's magazines blowing up?)

- Change exiting a tank so that you have to be 'turned out' to get out of it. I've noticed how they can get out without even opening the hatch!

- Smoke grenade launchers on the side should be activated.

- Make the tank engines alot more powerfull. (not faster)

..um, and thats all I can think of for now.

[Noone 4]

@King Kong

Not possible. Israel uses standard NATO 5.56 ammunition. AK47 is 7.62 and AK74 is 5.54. Incompatible.

@jimz0rz

Not possible either. We are making a mod, not rewriting the code. We are not magicians. I can not make promisses like that now. All we can do now is to retexture vehicles, change stats, change sounds etc..

[Wobble 1]

The AK-47 is still the most prefered weapon in the middle -east because of it's reliability, quality, medium accuracy

its the most popular because china and the former USSR flooded the region with them, giving the away for practically free.  they are everywhere, it has nothing to do with the weapon other than the fact that you can get them very very very cheap..

and 7 stingers to take down a Hind??  maby if the first 6 missed.  granted the hind is a tough cookie as far as choppers go, but 7 stinger HITS to take one down is just not real.. maby that happened 1 or 2 times because they missed it a few times but a single direct hit would probably at least cause a forced landing if not a catastrophic failure.

I think all middle-east countries like Saudi Arabia(wich uses the Steyr),Turkey(Turkish G3a3 copy made by MKEK), Iran wich also uses the G3A3, Israel wich uses the M16.

I think they all should replace their primary weapons with AK's or similar ones

HAHAHAHAHA!!! thats funny.. I dont know about the others but the current model M16 is just as reliable as the AK in 99% of situations, plus it has near match accuracy... Its funny how some people still think the M16 is some POS that james constantley.. that was the A1 model.. ya know the one that only had 6 months of development and no field testing.. hmm and the ak took 2 years to design and another year of testing.. hmm a weapon developed in 6 months VS one developed in 3 years.. gee which would be more reliable..

in reality when you dig into the guts of the Modern M16 (A2-A3) the only similarity between it and the A1 is the fact that it shoots the same calibur ammo..and is gas operated not much else.. the M16A2-3 is every bit as relaible as the AK47 in almost every circumstance adn twice as accurate.

the reason the 47 is so 'reliable' is because its build with very very loose tolerences meaning if gunk gets in it there are big enough gaps between the moving parts that it can accomodate the trash in it.. of course its accuracy suffers due to this.. so unless you are a total brainded moron who is going to bury your weapon in the sand or mud and repididly open and close the breach while its under there you will not have any trouble with the M16A2.. if you do do that kinda thing you deserve to be shot anyway

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

NOONE,

A suggestion for the grenades to get back on topic. They should be weaker than they are in the original ofp. If you throw a hand grenade into a squad in ofp, they all go down. Thats just silly. If anything there should be maybe a death or 2 and some injuries. Possibly even less than that.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Make the hand grenades bouncy, rather than explode on impact.

[King Kong 0]

"HAHAHAHAHA!!! thats funny.. I dont know about the others but the current model M16 is just as reliable as the AK in 99% of situations, plus it has near match accuracy... Its funny how some people still think the M16 is some POS that james constantley.. that was the A1 model.. ya know the one that only had 6 months of development and no field testing.. hmm and the ak took 2 years to design and another year of testing.. hmm a weapon developed in 6 months VS one developed in 3 years.. gee which would be more reliable..

in reality when you dig into the guts of the Modern M16 (A2-A3) the only similarity between it and the A1 is the fact that it shoots the same calibur ammo..and is gas operated not much else.. the M16A2-3 is every bit as relaible as the AK47 in almost every circumstance adn twice as accurate.

the reason the 47 is so 'reliable' is because its build with very very loose tolerences meaning if gunk gets in it there are big enough gaps between the moving parts that it can accomodate the trash in it.. of course its accuracy suffers due to this.. so unless you are a total brainded moron who is going to bury your weapon in the sand or mud and repididly open and close the breach while its under there you will not have any trouble with the M16A2.. if you do do that kinda thing you deserve to be shot anyway"

Ok, Mr Gun expert

What kind of BS is that?

First time i fired the m16a2 it jammed within 3 minutes(100 Drum magazine), fired in all conditions

AK's are the best rifle's in the world and thats a fact.

You can drive it over with a truck, put in the mud for 3 weeks

you are talking out of you're ass, all M16's are gas operated.

"and the ak took 2 years to design and another year of testing.. hmm a weapon developed in 6 months VS one developed in 3 years.. gee which would be more reliable.."

The AK-47 took 3 years to devlop, you know the story.

And yes, it's todays standard weapon for civilians and guerillas

And what do you mean with twice as accurate?

Do you know how dumb that sounds?

the AK74 is almoust as accurate as the M16a2 on burst fire(talking about experience here)

And MI-24 hinds have only armor on the bottom and side, read a history book or do some research

Mi-24 is the fastest chopper in the world and very heavily armored, that's why they call it "the flying tank"

It's also the first chopper with IR

[Noone 4]

About grenades.

Sorry, guys, we can't make them bounce right now. Maybe when SDK is out! About grebade damage - i'll think about lowering it...

About AK and M16

From personal experience i can tell that M16 still jam like hell. I once had 3 jams on 2 clips. It jams while extraction. M16 really doesn't like sand.

"so unless you are a total brainded moron who is going to bury your weapon in the sand or mud and repididly open and close the breach while its under there"

Well, i guess you have never been in combat. Send gets everywhere ! No matter what... When you hear a "grenade !", you fall down into the mud, without thinkig where your weapon will land. Also after every shot your barrel and internal parts accamulate leftovers of the gun powder. After a single clip, your M16 insides are black. If you don't clean it often (we did it nearly daily), it will jam or even have a barrel explosion. So your weapon gets very dirty in field conditions very fast.

Also AK-47 is less acurate then M16, but hell not twice ! It is slightly less acurate, but well.... Not that less !

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I think Stinger damage as it is now is realistic and balanced.

It's rare that a Hind goes down in one shot, but two will atleast force a landing or crash.

Infact, I just experienced this in-game, about an hour ago.

The Hind was so low that it landed when the engine was cut off after second Stinger hit.

Regarding disabling tracks. This already works! I'm not sure, but I think it came with patch 1.40. If a tracked vehicle gets track damage, it can only drive VERY slowly.

If you shoot out a tyre on a jeep, it can only drive around in circles!

It's a great idea to try and add more realism, I just think it's hard, as most changes would have to be in the actual gamecode, like jams, engine failure, dud grenades, etc.

I've tried the few vehicles that came out of the abandoned "Real War" mod, and didn't find them interesting.

The weapon's damage and such was changed, but it didn't add anything to the game experience.

So I think, if you simply change the damage values on the weapons, it will just be irritating. Like, we are all used to how grenades work in OFP, so suddenly have to manage with something that works less well, would be annoying.

But that's just my oppinion.

[christophercles 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (King Kong @ Jan. 11 2002,15:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"and the ak took 2 years to design and another year of testing.. hmm a weapon developed in 6 months VS one developed in 3 years.. gee which would be more reliable.."<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry for quoting the wrong person, but you know why the ak is so shite? because it took them 3 years to steal a design from a german gun.

[christophercles 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ Jan. 11 2002,17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you shoot out a tyre on a jeep, it can only drive around in circles! <span id='postcolor'>

Im not sure if a hummer is counted as a jeep (since its built like a tank ) but the hummer can keep going with no tires (read black hawk down), and even if the tires have been shot out, and driver can just press a button to re-inflate them.

[Noone 4]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @ Jan. 15 2002,07:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry for quoting the wrong person, but you know why the ak is so shite? because it took them 3 years to steal a design from a german gun.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you telling this from personal experience ?

And about german gun - if you mean MP-44 Maschinenpistole

then they are still quite different.

[Shabadu 0]

Doors that open. Especially the hangar doors.

[King Kong 0]

"Sorry for quoting the wrong person, but you know why the ak is so shite? because it took them 3 years to steal a design from a german gun."

The MP-44 was only for VERY elite troops like Blitzkrieg or high ranked Gestapo officers(you could compare it to an OICW in that time).

If the AK-47 is so(as you describe it) "shite" why is the AKM the most used and one of the most reliable and populair guns in the world?

From my experience the AK-47 is ALOT better then the M16.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @ Jan. 15 2002,07:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry for quoting the wrong person, but you know why the ak is so shite? because it took them 3 years to steal a design from a german gun.<span id='postcolor'>

If you're talking about the MP44, The only thing the AK has in common with it is a superficial resemblence. THe closest ancestors to the WW2 German design are Heckler und Koch Assault Rifles and SMGs. Forget the foresight and banana clip, look at the shape of the receiver.

The AK is an independant design.

[christophercles 0]

Im not defending the m16, its not had the most reliable track record, but i am saying that the ak would never be my choice in a battle if i had the choice. You know why the sk is the most popular weapon in the world? because you can go to any 3rd world country and buy them for $4 american.