The Iraq thread 4

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Billibob, I am not calling you a racist... but you must allow us to say that you have a very one sided view of the conflict

It is not law&order against religious warlords and their servants

It is not democracy against muslim fundamentalism

It is not only US forces against terorists.

It is not good against evil

----

Dont try to summarise and simplify this conflict like politicians do it when developing slogans for an election.

In the end it is true: You are and remain a foreign force that entered their country without them having asked for it and without neither the arab community nor the UN having legalised it.

You removed Saddam Hussein because he appeared to be a "threat" to you, the people welcomed that but from now on you have absolutely NO justification to remain in iraq.

You have no obligation nor the right to force them into democracy. You have NO right to tell them who their leader should be. And you definetly have no right to enter their houses and to tell them who their enemy is.

You could argue that the majority wants democracy and wants to adapt the american system. But neither the majority thinks that way nor do you have any LEGAL right to insist on it.

The insurgents is mainly composed of iraqis. Those iraqis did NOT take part in the system of Saddam Hussein nor are you allowed to kill them just because they are against democracy and FOR a muslim state.

Have you ever asked them if they want democracy at all? Have you ever asked them if they want a unified iraq instead of splitting up? No, you consider everyone rejecting your ideas as evil and everyone carrying a gun as a terorist.

How you would you feel if a muslim nation would have come to invade the US because your democracy enables poverty, moral deterioration, atheism, prostitution and slave-workers all over the world?

Wouldnt you raise your gun against them? Wouldnt you think.. why the hell do they believe their system is superior?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

If a foreign power occupied the US and installed an interim authority and security forces, those taking up arms against that occupation would be called insurgents. Right? Would you agree with or perhaps even support such an American insurgency? Or would you rather believe in the occupation authority installed police, national guard, etc?

erm... I will not answer that question...

[DKM Jaguar 0]

I was looking at our good friend BillyBob's post and some others, and noticed something.

If ever there is an achievement by US forces, it is a "victory for US forces".

Whenever there is a mistake made by US forces it is a "foul up by Coalition troops."

Perhaps they try to share the blame and none of the victory (WW2 all over again..)

I also notice that the term "resistance" is avoided like the plauge, perhaps becuase of the 1939-45 period where the 'resistance' fought their evil invaders.. now I wonder why that is  

I have little in terms of politcs to add to this, there can be no proven right or wrong answer..but I do love watching the words people choose to use

[billybob2002 0]

My intel officer has pointed something out....

http://www.cnsnews.com/....4a.html

Quote[/b] ]

Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties

By Scott Wheeler

CNSNews.com Staff Writer

October 04, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed responsibility for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.

The source of the documents

A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided CNSNews.com with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. CNSNews.com had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other.

There are no hand-writing samples to which the documents can be compared for forensic analysis and authentication. However, three other experts - a former weapons inspector with the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), a retired CIA counter-terrorism official with vast experience dealing with Iraq, and a former advisor to then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton on Iraq - were asked to analyze the documents. All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Laurie Mylroie, who authored the book, "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War against America," and advised Clinton on Iraq during the 1992 presidential campaign, told CNSNews.com that the papers represent "the most complete set of documents relating Iraq to terrorism, including Islamic terrorism" against the U.S.

Mylroie has long maintained that Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism against the United States. The documents obtained by CNSNews.com , she said, include "correspondence back and forth between Saddam's office and Iraqi Mukhabarat (intelligence agency). They make sense. This is what one would think Saddam was doing at the time."

Bruce Tefft, a retired CIA official who specialized in counter-terrorism and had extensive experience dealing with Iraq, said that "based on available, unclassified and open source information, the details in these documents are accurate ..."

The former UNSCOM inspector zeroed in on the signatures on the documents and "the names of some of the people who sign off on these things.

"This is fairly typical of that time era. [The Iraqis] were meticulous record keepers," added the former U.N. official, who spoke with CNSNews.com on the condition of anonymity.

The senior government official, who furnished the documents to CNSNews.com, said the papers answer "whether or not Iraq was a state sponsor of Islamic terrorism against the United States. It also answers whether or not Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended."

Presidential campaign focused on Iraq

The presidential campaign is currently dominated by debate over whether Saddam procured weapons of mass destruction and/or whether his government sponsored terrorism aimed at Americans before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year. Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry has repeatedly rejected that possibility and criticized President Bush for needlessly invading Iraq.

"[bush's] two main rationales - weapons of mass destruction and the al Qaeda/September 11 (2001) connection - have been proved false ... by the president's own weapons inspectors ... and by the 9/11 Commission," Kerry told an audience at New York University on Sept. 20.

The Senate Intelligence Committee's probe of the 9/11 intelligence failures also could not produce any definitive links between Saddam's government and 9/11. And United Nations as well as U.S. weapons inspectors in Iraq have been unable to find the biological and chemical weapons Saddam was suspected of possessing.

But the documents obtained by CNSNews.com shed new light on the controversy.

They detail the Iraqi regime's purchase of five kilograms of mustard gas on Aug. 21, 2000 and three vials of malignant pustule, another term for anthrax, on Sept. 6, 2000. The purchase order for the mustard gas includes gas masks, filters and rubber gloves. The order for the anthrax includes sterilization and decontamination equipment. (See Saddam's Possession of Mustard Gas)

The documents show that Iraqi intelligence received the mustard gas and anthrax from "Saddam's company," which Tefft said was probably a reference to Saddam General Establishment, "a complex of factories involved with, amongst other things, precision optics, missile, and artillery fabrication."

"Sa'ad's general company" is listed on the Iraqi documents as the supplier of the sterilization and decontamination equipment that accompanied the anthrax vials. Tefft believes this is a reference to the Salah Al-Din State Establishment, also involved in missile construction. (See Saddam's Possession of Anthrax)

The Jaber Ibn Hayan General Company is listed as the supplier of the safety equipment that accompanied the mustard gas order. Tefft described the company as "a 'turn-key' project built by Romania, designed to produce protective CW (conventional warfare) and BW (biological warfare) equipment (gas masks and protective clothing)."

"Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended," the senior government official and source of the documents said. "This should cause us to redouble our efforts to find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."

'Hunt the Americans'

The first of the 42 pages of Iraqi documents is dated Jan. 18, 1993, approximately two years after American troops defeated Saddam's army in the first Persian Gulf War. The memo includes Saddam's directive that "the party should move to hunt the Americans who are on Arabian land, especially in Somalia, by using Arabian elements ..."

On Oct. 3, 1993, less than nine months after that Iraqi memo was written, American soldiers were ambushed in Mogadishu, Somalia by forces loyal to Somali warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid, an alleged associate of Osama bin Laden. Eighteen Americans were killed and 84 wounded during a 17-hour firefight that followed the ambush in which Aidid's followers used civilians as decoys. (See Saddam's Connections to al Qaeda)

An 11-page Iraqi memo, dated Jan. 25, 1993, lists Palestinian, Sudanese and Asian terrorist organizations and the relationships Iraq had with each of them. Of particular importance, Tefft said, are the relationships Iraq had already developed or was in the process of developing with groups and individuals affiliated with al Qaeda, such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The U.S. currently is offering rewards of up to $25 million for each man's capture.

The documents describe Al-Jehad wa'l Tajdeed as "a secret Palestinian organization" founded after the first Persian Gulf War that "believes in armed struggle against U.S. and western interests." The leaders of the group, according to the Iraqi memo, were stationed in Jordan in 1993, and when one of those leaders visited Iraq in November 1992, he "showed the readiness of his organization to execute operations against U.S. interests at any time." (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

Tefft believes the Tajdeed group likely included al-Zarqawi, whom Teft described as "our current terrorist nemesis" in Iraq, "a Palestinian on a Jordanian passport who was with al Qaeda and bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to this period (1993)."

Tajdeed, which means Islamic Renewal, currently "has a website that posts Zarqawi's speeches, messages, claims of assassinations and beheading videos," Tefft told CNSNews.com. "The apparent linkages are too close to be accidental" and might "be one of the first operational contacts between an al Qaeda group and Iraq," he added.

Tefft said the documents, all of which the Iraqi Intelligence Service labeled "Top secret, personal and urgent" show several links between Saddam's government and terror groups dedicated not only to targeting America but also U.S. allies like Egypt and Israel.

The same 11-page memo refers to the "re-opening of the relationship" with Al-Jehad al-Islamy, which is described as "the most violent in Egypt," responsible for the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. The documents go on to describe a Dec. 14, 1990 meeting between Iraqi intelligence officials and a representative of Al-Jehad al-Islamy, that ended in an agreement "to move against [the] Egyptian regime by doing martyr operations on conditions that we should secure the finance, training and equipments." (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

Al-Zawahiri was one of the leaders of Jehad al-Islamy, which is also known as the Egyptian Islamic Group, and participated in the assassination of Sadat, Tefft said. "Iraq's contact with the Egyptian Islamic Group is another operational contact between Iraq and al Qaeda," he added.

One of the Asian groups listed on the Iraqi intelligence memo is J.U.I., also known as the Islamic Clerks Society. The group is currently led by Mawlana Fadhel al-Rahman, whom Tefft said is "an al Qaeda member and co-signed Osama bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious ruling) to kill Americans." The Iraqi memo from 1993 states that J.U.I.'s secretary general "has a good relationship with our system since 1981 and he is ready for any mission." Tefft said the memo shows "another direct Iraq link to an al Qaeda group."

Iraq had also maintained a relationship with the Afghani Islamist party since 1989, according to the memo. The "relationship was improved and became directly between the leader, Hekmatyar and Iraq," it states, referring to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghani warlord who fought against the Soviet Union and current al Qaeda ally, according to Tefft.

Last year, American authorities in Afghanistan ranked Hekmatyar third on their most wanted list, behind only bin Laden and former Taliban leader Mullah Omar. Hekmatyar represents "another Iraqi link to an al Qaeda group," Tefft said. (See More Saddam Connections to al Qaeda)

The Iraqi intelligence documents also refer to terrorist groups previously believed to have had links with Saddam Hussein. They include the Palestine Liberation Front, a group dedicated to attacking Israel, and according to the Iraqi memo, one with "an office in Baghdad."

The Abu Nidal group, suspected by the CIA of having acted as surrogates for Iraqi terrorist attacks, is also mentioned.

"The movement believes in political violence and assassinations," the 1993 Iraqi memo states in reference to the Abu Nidal organization. "We have relationships with them since 1973. Currently, they have a representative in the country. Monthly helps are given to them -- 20 thousand dinars - in addition to other supports," the memo explains. (See Saddam's Connections to Palestinian Terror Groups)

Iraq not only built and maintained relationships with terrorist groups, the documents show it appears to have trained terrorists as well. Ninety-two individuals from various Middle Eastern countries are listed on the papers.

Many are described as having "finished the course at M14," a reference to an Iraqi intelligence agency, and to having "participated in Umm El-Ma'arek," the Iraqi response to the U.S. invasion in 1991. The author of the list notes that approximately half of the individuals "all got trained inside the 'martyr act camp' that belonged to our directorate."

The former UNSCOM weapons inspector who was asked to analyze the documents believes it's clear that the Iraqis "were training people there in assassination and suicide bombing techniques ... including non-Iraqis."

Bush administration likely unaware of documents' existence

The senior government official and source of the Iraqi intelligence memos, explained that the reason the documents have not been made public before now is that the government has "thousands and thousands of documents waiting to be translated.

"It is unlikely they even know this exists," the source added.

The government official also explained that the motivation for leaking the documents, "is strictly national security and helping with the war on terrorism by focusing this country's attention on facts and away from political posturing.

"This is too important to let it get caught up in the political process," the source told CNSNews.com.

To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented elsewhere on the Internet, CNSNews.com has decided to publish only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation. Portions of some of the other memos in translated form are also being published to accompany this report. Credentialed journalists and counter-terrorism experts seeking to view the 42 pages of Arabic documents or to challenge their authenticity may make arrangements to do so at CNSNews.com headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

[denoir 0]

LMAO billybob

Quote[/b] ]

The Cybercast News Service was launched on June 16, 1998 as a news source for individuals, news organizations and broadcasters who put a higher premium on balance than spin and seek news that’s ignored or under-reported as a result of media bias by omission.

Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news".

These are more right-wing nuts than Rush Limbaugh.

Is it now that you want me to post stuff from MichaelMoore.com?

[Balschoiw 0]

Unless the "papers" are made public and investigated by an independant comission, they are worth nothing.

All a bit dubious, isn´t it ?

I just entered the authors name into google and a lot of stories popped up that were let´s say nonsense  

He could write for an alien spotter magazine also...

One of his best:

"How chinagate led to 9/11" well, well....

[turms 0]

Couple of articles from a real newssite, not from a rightwing nut site, or swiftliars.com:

Quote[/b] ]  Four U.S. Soldiers Charged in Iraqi General's Murder

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military has charged four soldiers with murder in the death of an Iraqi general who suffocated after being shoved in a sleeping bag and physically abused during interrogation in Iraq last November, the Army said on Monday.

Chief Warrant Officers Jefferson Williams and Lewis Welshofer Jr., Sgt. 1st Class William Sommer and Spec. Jerry Loper were charged with murder and dereliction of duty, officials at Fort Carson, Colorado, said in a statement.

Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abid Hamed Mowhoush, a key air-defense commander for toppled President Saddam Hussein's military, died last Nov. 26 of "asphyxia due to smothering and chest compression" while being detained by the U.S. military in Al Qaim near the Syrian border, according to a death certificate released by the Army in May.

The criminal charges were the latest in a series brought against U.S. troops stemming from the abuse and in some cases deaths of numerous prisoners held in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The murder charge carries a maximum sentence of life in prison without possibility of parole, while the dereliction charge carries a maximum sentence of six months of confinement, according to the statement.

The U.S. military initially described the general's death as apparently from natural causes, but changed the account in the weeks after revelations surfaced this spring of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib jail on the outskirts of Baghdad.

'SUFFOCATING HIM'

A summary released by Fort Carson of the charge sheets brought against the four soldiers said they killed him "by means of suffocating him with the use of a sleeping bag and electrical cord."

The U.S. military has said U.S. soldiers placed Mowhoush head-first into a sleeping bag, then rolled him back and forth during questioning before a soldier sat on his chest. The general was in custody for about two weeks before his death.

The initial U.S. military account of his death last November described it much more benignly.

A military statement said, "Mowhoush said he didn't feel well and subsequently lost consciousness. The soldier questioning him found no pulse, then conducted CPR and called for medical authorities. A surgeon responded within five minutes to continue advanced cardiac life-support techniques, but they were ineffective. According to the on-site surgeon, it appeared Mowhoush died of natural causes."

The Army said the four soldiers, all of whom are back in the United States after serving with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment in Iraq, have not been placed in detention and still are serving with their units.

Kim Tisor, a spokeswoman at the base, said if the military proceeds with courts-martial, the trials would be held at Fort Carson. Tisor said the next step for the soldiers is a proceeding called an Article 32 hearing in which an officer hears evidence and decides whether the case should go to trial, but the soldiers could waive this proceeding.

Williams, Welshofer and Sommer were members of military intelligence units, while Loper was part of an aviation maintenance unit, the Army said.

Reuters

Quote[/b] ]

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Heavy fighting erupted between U.S. troops and Shi'ite militiamen in Baghdad's Sadr City slum on Monday night after car bombs earlier killed at least 26 people in two Iraqi cities.

Witnesses said American AC-130 aircraft pounded suspected rebel positions in Sadr City, but there was no immediate word on casualties and the U.S. military said it had no information on the fighting.

The attack on the slum, a stronghold of firebrand Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, was part of an offensive by U.S. and Iraqi forces to crush a raging insurgency and take back all of Iraq before elections scheduled for January.

Residents said they could hear the sound of AC-130 rapid-fire cannons as blasts shook Sadr City, home to more than two million people.

"I hear explosions. AC-130 planes were firing," said a Sadr City resident.

He said he saw at least 12 tanks moving into Sadr City.

Helicopters could be heard in Baghdad heading in the direction of Sadr City.

The fighting came after the car bomb attacks brought more carnage to the streets of two Iraqi cities as the interim government struggles to stamp out the insurgency ahead of nationwide polls.

More than 100 people were wounded as bombers struck twice in Baghdad and once in the northern city of Mosul.

In the first Baghdad blast, a car blew up near an entrance to the heavily fortified Green Zone, home to the interim government, killing at least 15 people and wounding 80, a hospital official said.

A second bomb exploded about an hour later as a U.S. military convoy passed along Sadoun Street, a major thoroughfare east of the Tigris river, where several hotels used by foreign contractors are located. No U.S. troops were killed or wounded.

Reuters

Meanwhile the posting the "evidence" of yours, you might of have missed what rumsfeld has said about links to al-queda :

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Monday he knew of no "strong, hard evidence" linking Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda, despite describing extensive contacts between the two before the Iraq invasion.

Rumsfeld, during a question-and-answer session before the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, was asked to explain the connection between Saddam and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America.

"I have seen the answer to that question migrate in the intelligence community over a period of a year in the most amazing way. Second, there are differences in the intelligence community as to what the relationship was," Rumsfeld said.

"To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two," Rumsfeld added.

"I just read an intelligence report recently about one person who's connected to al Qaeda who was in and out of Iraq. And it is the most tortured description of why he might have had a relationship and why he might not have had a relationship. It may have been something that was not representative of a hard linkage."

U.S.-led forces invaded Iraq in March 2003 and toppled Saddam and his government in a war whose main justification offered by the United States was the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. No such weapons have been discovered.

But the relationship between Saddam's government and al Qaeda also figured in the U.S. case for war.

A small Pentagon intelligence-analysis office found what it considered evidence of Iraq-al Qaeda ties. Rumsfeld was one of the Bush administration officials publicly describing this link. On Sept. 26, 2002, Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon of evidence of contacts and cooperation.

'CREDIBLE INFORMATION'

"We have what we consider to be very reliable reporting of senior level contacts going back a decade, and of possible chemical and biological agent training. And when I say contacts, I mean between Iraq and al Qaeda," Rumsfeld said at the time.

"We have what we believe to be credible information that Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe-haven opportunities in Iraq, reciprocal nonaggression discussions. We have what we consider to be credible evidence that al Qaeda leaders have sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire ... weapons of mass destruction capabilities," Rumsfeld added at the time.

The bipartisan 9/11 commission that studied the 2001 attacks concluded this July there was no evidence of a "collaborative operational relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda or an Iraqi role in attacking the United States.

During a question-and-answer session at the Council on Foreign Relations on Monday, Rumsfeld also was asked what was the "number-one reason for the war."

Rumsfeld said President Bush made the judgment that Saddam "ran a vicious regime that had used weapons of mass destruction on its own people, as well as its neighbors, and that it was important to set that right by removing that regime before they, in fact, did gather weapons of mass destruction, either themselves or transferring them to terrorist networks."

Before the war, U.S. officials spoke of Iraq already possessing weapons of mass destruction, not a potential for gathering them.

"It turns out that we have not found weapons of mass destruction," Rumsfeld said.

"And why the intelligence proved wrong, I'm not in a position to say. I simply don't know. But the world is a lot better off with Saddam Hussein in jail than they were with him in power," Rumsfeld added.

Thats whats going on. The goverment that wasnt elected by the majority of americans is fucking americas economy and its once noble ideologys in the ass.

[Frisbee 0]

Ah yes, far better than indiscriminately blowing up Americans and Iraqi's alike with car bombs.

Just call a Spectre to lay waste to suspected rebel positions.

[Akira 0]

My intel officer has pointed something out....

Well. I've never seen a better example of why this country is in a mess of a war right now. They can't even get good news sites, how are we suppose to expect them to find WMD?

Intel? I think there is another word for it.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]These are more right-wing nuts than Rush Limbaugh.

Erm..."right-wing nuts" did brake that CBS story and not the normal press....

Quote[/b] ]One of his best:

"How chinagate led to 9/11" well, well....

....

Quote[/b] ]To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented elsewhere on the Internet, CNSNews.com has decided to publish only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation. Portions of some of the other memos in translated form are also being published to accompany this report. Credentialed journalists and counter-terrorism experts seeking to view the 42 pages of Arabic documents or to challenge their authenticity may make arrangements to do so at CNSNews.com headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Intel? I think there is another word for it.

Actually, I do have a intel officer that goes around....

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Intel? I think there is another word for it.

Actually, I do have a intel officer that goes around....

Well given his level of intel he would be a perfect match with the Bush Intel Team (BIT)

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well given his level of intel he would be a perfect match with the Bush Intel Team (BIT)

Whatever...

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]These are more right-wing nuts than Rush Limbaugh.

Erm..."right-wing nuts" did brake that CBS story and not the normal press....

you mean like how they failed to come out and say swiftpet's allegations are false?

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]

If a foreign power occupied the US and installed an interim authority and security forces, those taking up arms against that occupation would be called insurgents.  Right?  Would you agree with or perhaps even support such an American insurgency?  Or would you rather believe in the occupation authority installed police, national guard, etc?

erm... I will not answer that question...

erm... you don't really need to... but then don't ask me to elaborate when I call you a racist.

My intel officer has pointed something out....

http://www.cnsnews.com/....4a.html

Quote[/b] ]Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties

By Scott Wheeler

CNSNews.com Staff Writer

October 04, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans.

blah blah blah...

Meanwhile, on the very same day on planet Earth...

Quote[/b] ]<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Rumsfeld: No evidence of al-Qaida-Iraq link</span>

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Monday that he knew of no “strong, hard evidence†linking Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and al-Qaida.

During a question-and-answer session before the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, Rumsfeld was asked to explain the connection between Saddam and Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida network, which is blamed for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

“To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two."

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]My intel officer has pointed something out...

I can imagine how he did that...

Very good source billybob. Keep up the excellent work

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]erm... you don't really need to... but then don't ask me to elaborate when I call you a racist.

erm....that question fits in the same line of questions that include "Would you give up your son or daughter in the Fallujah fighting?". At least you admit that you consider me a racist....

[Bernadotte 0]

At least you admit that you consider me a racist....

Don't sweat it, man!  Some of my best friends are racists.  ...Or at least they used to be.  

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Don't sweat it, man! Some of my best friends are racists. ...Or at least they used to be.

Be quiet, BOY...

*waves the confederate flag*...

[turms 0]

Old but interesting article about DU in Iraq: BBC

Quote[/b] ]US rejects Iraq DU clean-up

By Alex Kirby

BBC News Online environment correspondent

The US says it has no plans to remove the debris left over from depleted uranium (DU) weapons it is using in Iraq.

DU shells can go straight through the side of a tank

US and British tanks use DU shells and armour

Factfile: DU

It says no clean-up is needed, because research shows DU has no long-term effects.

It says a 1990 study suggesting health risks to local people and veterans is out of date.

A United Nations study found DU contaminating air and water seven years after it was used.

DU, left over after natural uranium has been enriched, is 1.7 times denser than lead, and very effective for punching through armoured vehicles.

When a weapon with a DU tip or core strikes a solid object, like the side of a tank, it goes straight through before erupting in a burning cloud of vapour. This settles as chemically poisonous and radioactive dust.

Risk studies

Both the US and the UK acknowledge the dust can be dangerous if inhaled, though they say the danger is short-lived, localised, and much more likely to lead to chemical poisoning than to irradiation.

One thing we've found in these various studies is that there are no long-term effects from DU

Lieutenant-Colonel David Lapan, Pentagon spokesman

But a study prepared for the US Army in July 1990, a month before Iraq invaded Kuwait, says: "The health risks associated with internal and external DU exposure during combat conditions are certainly far less than other combat-related risks.

"Following combat, however, the condition of the battlefield and the long-term health risks to natives and combat veterans may become issues in the acceptability of the continued use of DU."

A Pentagon spokesman, Lieutenant-Colonel David Lapan, told BBC News Online: "Since then there've been a number of studies - by the UK's Royal Society and the World Health Organisation, for example - into the health risks of DU, or the lack of them.

"It's fair to say the 1990 study has been overtaken by them. One thing we've found in these various studies is that there are no long-term effects from DU.

"And given that, I don't believe we have any plans for a DU clean-up in Iraq."

Part of the armoury

The UN Environment Programme study, published in March 2003, found DU in air and groundwater in Bosnia-Herzegovina seven years after the weapons were fired.

The UN says the existing data suggest it is "highly unlikely" DU could be linked to any of the health problems reported.

But it recommends collecting DU fragments, covering contaminated points with asphalt or clean soil, and keeping records of contaminated sites.

Reports from Baghdad speak of repeated attacks by US aircraft carrying DU weapons on high-rise buildings in the city centre.

The UK says: "British forces on deployment to the Gulf have DU munitions available as part of their armoury, and will use them if necessary." It will not confirm they have used them.

Many veterans from the Gulf and Kosovo wars believe DU has made them seriously ill.

One UK Gulf veteran is Ray Bristow, a former marathon runner.

In 1999 he told the BBC: "I gradually noticed that every time I went out for a run my distance got shorter and shorter, my recovery time longer and longer.

"Now, on my good days, I get around quite adequately with a walking stick, so long as it's short distances. Any further, and I need to be pushed in a wheelchair."

Ray Bristow was tested in Canada for DU. He is open-minded about its role in his condition.

But he says: "I remained in Saudi Arabia throughout the war. I never once went into Iraq or Kuwait, where these munitions were used.

"But the tests showed, in layman's terms, that I have been exposed to over 100 times an individual's safe annual exposure to depleted uranium."

[DarkLight 0]

Quote[/b] ]erm... you don't really need to... but then don't ask me to elaborate when I call you a racist.

erm....that question fits in the same line of questions that include "Would you give up your son or daughter in the Fallujah fighting?". At least you admit that you consider me a racist....

Actually, all he asked was if you'd like it or not if some foreign smartasses would invade YOUR country...

All they would want is for you and your buddies to have a country full of peace and democracy!!!

So why not like it, huh?

Think about it for 5 seconds and if you bother to let your brains do some exercise, you'll notice that it isn't very fun if some armed strangers with another culture invade your country and tell you what to do... Oh and of course, these invaders can barely communicate with you, let's not forget such a great detail!

I know one thing for sure, if some idiot wants to invade MY country and change the whole damn thing then i'd be pretty fucking pissed off! I wouldn't give a damn if they'd bring me "freedom"...

Why don't you want to reply on this? Don't you like to admit that getting your country invaded isn't fun at all? Don't you like to admit that the Iraqis their reaction might just be understandable?

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/05/bremer.rumsfeld/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- The former U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says the United States "paid a big price" for not having enough troops on the ground after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime.

L. Paul Bremer, speaking Monday at an insurance conference in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia, said "horrid" looting was occurring when he arrived to head the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad on May 6, 2003.

"We paid a big price for not stopping it because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness," Bremer said. "We never had enough troops on the ground."

Bremer added that ousting Saddam was "the right thing to do."

A senior Defense Department official said that Bremer never asked for more troops and expressed annoyance the ambassador appeared to be second-guessing the advice of military officials. Bremer stepped down after the June 28 handover to an interim Iraqi government.

[kerosene 0]

That article about depleted uranium, heres some interesting stuff about the side effects:

The U.S. Army acknowledges the hazards in a training manual, in which it requires that anyone who comes within 25 meters of any DU-contaminated equipment or terrain wear respiratory and skin protection, and states that "contamination will make food and water unsafe for consumption."

Cancer has increased dramatically in southern Iraq. In 1988, 34 people died of cancer; in 1998, 450 died of cancer; in 2001 there were 603 cancer deaths.

Birth Defects - in 1989 there were 11 per 100,000 births; in 2001 there were 116 per 100,000 births

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Actually, all he asked was if you'd like it or not if some foreign smartasses would invade YOUR country...

All they would want is for you and your buddies to have a country full of peace and democracy!!!

So why not like it, huh?

erm.. No, I do not answer those types of questions. Furthermore, please refrain from using lame-ass insults...

Anyway,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....ld_dc_6

Quote[/b] ]

Rumsfeld Says He Was Misunderstood on Iraq-Al Qaeda

Tue Oct 5,10:08 AM ET   U.S. National - Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Tuesday he was misunderstood when he stated hours earlier that he knew of no "strong, hard evidence" linking Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Iraq (news - web sites) and al Qaeda.

"I have acknowledged since September 2002 that there were ties between al Qaeda and Iraq," Rumsfeld said in a Web site statement issued following remarks he made to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York on Monday.

"Today at the Council, I even noted that 'when I'm in Washington, I pull out a piece of paper and say "I don't know, because I'm not in that business, but I'll tell you what the CIA (news - web sites) thinks" and I read it'."

In the new statement, issued on the Pentagon (news - web sites) Web site, Rumsfeld listed what he said were arguments for suggesting links between al Qaeda and Iraq under Saddam, including what the CIA regarded as "credible evidence" that al Qaeda leaders had sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire weapons of mass destruction.

Rumsfeld, during a question-and-answer session before the Council on Foreign Relations, had been asked to explain the connection between Saddam and Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network -- one of the U.S. arguments for launching a war on Iraq.

He replied: "To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two."

[Donnervogel 0]

Poor Rummy seems to be very confused...