The Iraq thread 4

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Governor of Baghdad assassinated [bBC]

Sic transit obses

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]FORWARD OPERATING BASE KALSU, Iraq (January 4, 2005) -- As the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit continues its counter-insurgency in preparation for the much-anticipated January 30 elections, it bids farewell to one of the most successful humanitarian missions conducted south of Baghdad - the Back to School Campaign.

Spearheaded by MEU Service Support Group 24, the campaign provided more than 14,000 pounds of school supplies to at least 6,500 students in 10 schools. Their actions provided many children with the items they needed for a prosperous education. It also provided the Marines involved with their own particularly fond memories of a difficult deployment.

"The best part was the students - seeing their smiles when you would give them a pencil or a pen," said Staff Sgt. John Koger, 29, a Chicago native and MSSG-24's armory chief. "They just want the things we take for granted. Whatever (we) were able to give them, they were happy to receive."

The planning stage for the program began in early August, less than a month after the MEU's arrival. Patrols from the MEU's ground combat element, Battalion Landing Team 1st Battalion 2nd Marines, and the Army's 118th Military Police Battalion identified an initial batch of schools within the MEU's area of operations. After a few successful events, the word of the generous donations spread throughout the neighboring communities, and school faculty members began to identify their educational institutions as needing help, with the hope of receiving the same attention.

"The headmasters (began) showing up at our gate asking for assistance," said 1st Lt. Keith Dillard, 31, of Mount Vernon, N.Y., and a logistics officer with MSSG-24.

Originally, the intentions for the Back to School Campaign were limited to delivering school supplies and taking class photos. But after their initial visits, the Marines learned that much more was needed to give the children an adequate learning environment.

"Once we arrived at the schools, we saw they were in very poor conditions," said Dillard. "We worked with Civil Affairs to get money for renovations."

This led to developing a "basic package" for the schools. The package included repairing the roof, fixing broken windows, replacing busted doors and painting. The Marines also fixed the lights, installed ceiling fans in classrooms, and renovated the restrooms.

But not everyone was happy about the program, as the Marines were occasionally harassed by enemy fire. Despite the apparent threat to the mission, it never slowed down the Marines and sailors, who even managed to turn the inconvenience into a triumph against the insurgency.

"The (improvised explosive devices) and small arms fire were a continued problem," said Dillard. "On Sept. 11, returning from a school visit, our team took a significant amount of machine-gun fire. We repelled the attack and captured three insurgents."

One of the first objectives of the campaign was to gain the trust of the local Iraqis and help them realize the Marines were here to help.

"Some teachers weren't receptive to what we were doing (at first)," said Koger. "They were afraid of what would happen to them until they saw the good we were actually doing for (their school)."

Another benefit of the campaign was the Adopt-a-School program, which allowed children in America to communicate with their Iraqi counterparts and vice-versa, bridging a gap between two very different cultures and forming a bond between the different schools.

"The Adopt-a-School program was a hit," said Dillard. "Several American schools and Brownie (Girl Scout) troops drew pictures of their families and sent them to me for distribution at the Iraqi schools. The Iraqi children replied with pictures of their families and created a cross-culture bond that we intend to be long-term."

Providing educational supplies and pen-pal replies weren't the only amenities supplied to the schools. Athletic equipment was also donated through American families, universities and soccer clubs that realized the importance of giving children a healthy outlet from the all-too-common violence of their daily lives.

"Soccer is very big in Iraq," explained Dillard. "We have given out more than 500 soccer balls and outfitted five teams with full uniforms: jerseys, cleats, shorts. We also provided soccer nets for the local fields and played a (Marines) versus Iraqi soccer game."

Not only did the children benefit from these donations, but special packages of supplies were also provided for the teachers to enhance their ability to provide a quality curriculum. Many of the packages included items such as folders, binders, colored paper and compasses.

In order to achieve its full potential, the program required efforts from each of the MSSG-24 detachments. The corpsmen evaluated more than 350 patients and gave medical aid to those in need; the engineers built soccer fields and bookshelves and fixed broken basketball backboards; the females made jewelry with the female students; and the Maintenance Marines welded doors and assembled donated desks.

"Our goal was to create a sphere of influence around (FOB) Kalsu and show the Iraqi people that we are here to help them have a bright future," said Dillard. "By repairing the schools and providing supplies, the students - who are the future of Iraq - were afforded the tools to be successful leaders."

Even the Army's 1st Cavalry Division, which is preparing to assume responsibility for the campaign, recognizes the progress the MEU has made in the last several months.

"The great thing about Marines was how highly they valued street-personal relationships," said Army Capt. Evans Hanson, 26, of Houston and the civil-military operations officer for 3rd Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery, 1st Cavalry Division. "The work they've done in such a short period of time is very impressive. Marines know how to make the most of limited resources. We've seen children smiling and waving in the streets, and can tell how much Marines cared."

The Cavalry is eager to build on the already firm base established by the hard work and dedication of the Marines.

"The MEU has been planting a lot of seeds of growth and prosperity that need to take place in this very rural (area)," added Hanson. "Our goal is to expand the scope of what they've been able to do - create a system that follow-on units can use and operate immediately."

Although the MEU is scaling back its involvement, the Marines are making every effort to ensure that the program is sustained.

"We continue to receive an abundance of supplies from our family and friends as well as agencies and schools from the U.S.," said Dilllard. "We are working with the replacement civil affairs team so they can pick up where we left off (and ensure) the positive relationships we have with our new neighbors (are) not lost."

The Marines are grateful for the thousands of donated items, which continue to flood the MEU's mail room.

"They've spent a lot of money giving (the Iraqis) what they have, and I know they appreciate it," said Koger. "(Everyone back in the U.S.) has done an outstanding job of supporting us and our mission. I know millions of dollars (have been) spent on items for the schools from the smallest things like erasers to donated computers, and everything in between."

The ultimate testament to the Marine's success still remains the admiration they receive from the Iraqis - young and old alike. As their reputation for kindness and generosity now precedes them, the school visits remain a much-anticipated event by all in the surrounding communities.

"When they see us coming, we (become) engulfed (in the presence of) happy children and adults who are eager to receive our support and just talk to us," said Dillard. "They enjoy learning about our culture and love to teach us about theirs."

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[EiZei 0]

Hooray for PR department.

[billybob2002 0]

http://reuters.myway.com/article....DC.html

Quote[/b] ]

U.S. Marine in Mysterious Case Declared Deserter

Jan 5, 5:05 PM (ET)

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Marine Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun, charged a month ago with desertion in a mysterious case in which he left his unit in Iraq only to turn up in Lebanon, has failed to return to his base in North Carolina, the Marine Corps said on Wednesday.

In a statement, the Marines said that Hassoun "has been declared a deserter" after not returning on Tuesday to Camp Lejeune from authorized leave.

The statement said Hassoun had been required to return to the base by noon on Tuesday, but has not reported for duty. The statement said "his command officially declared him a deserter and issued authorization for civil authorities to apprehend Hassoun and return him to military control."

CNN reported that he had gone to Canada.

Hassoun disappeared last June from his unit in Iraq where he had worked as an Arabic interpreter and later turned up in Lebanon, the country where he was born, claiming he had been kidnapped by militants.

The Marines announced on Dec. 9 that he had been charged with desertion, rejecting his account that he had been kidnapped. Hassoun was also charged with loss of government property and theft of a 9mm military pistol.

Although desertion from the U.S. military in time of war could be punishable by death, the Marines said they had no intention of seeking the death penalty.

Hassoun disappeared from his base near Falluja in Iraq and turned up safe at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut on July 8. He was seen during his absence in a videotape, seemingly being held by militants, blindfolded with a sword poised over his head. An Islamic militant Internet site said later he had been beheaded, but he later showed up unharmed at the embassy in Beirut.

Hassoun told reporters after he returned to the United States that he was captured and held against his will and did not desert the military.

The plot thickens..

[DracoPaladore 0]

Quote[/b] ]

The Marines announced on Dec. 9 that he had been charged with desertion, rejecting his account that he had been kidnapped.

Quote[/b] ]

Hassoun disappeared from his base near Falluja in Iraq and turned up safe at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut on July 8. He was seen during his absence in a videotape, seemingly being held by militants, blindfolded with a sword poised over his head. An Islamic militant Internet site said later he had been beheaded, but he later showed up unharmed at the embassy in Beirut.

Guess video proof isn't enough, and a corpse would be more concrete evidence that he was kidnapped.

Though, it raises questions as to whether or not it was staged.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]

The Marines announced on Dec. 9 that he had been charged with desertion, rejecting his account that he had been kidnapped.

Quote[/b] ]

Hassoun disappeared from his base near Falluja in Iraq and turned up safe at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut on July 8. He was seen during his absence in a videotape, seemingly being held by militants, blindfolded with a sword poised over his head. An Islamic militant Internet site said later he had been beheaded, but he later showed up unharmed at the embassy in Beirut.

Guess video proof isn't enough, and a corpse would be more concrete evidence that he was kidnapped.

Though, it raises questions as to whether or not it was staged.

My personal gut belief is that it was not staged, but at some point the Marine rejected America and its occupation of Iraq, prompting the kidnappers to set him free.

The one question in that is why did the kidnappers not tape and air this rejection?

Who knows if we will ever know the truth...

[billybob2002 0]

Iraqi armor....army day 2005

not army day but still...

source: various websites....

[FireflyPL 0]

http://chicagostreetculture.com/video/Nightline_Falluja_fighting.wmv

15 mins

Link is dead. Can someone upload this footage?

[turms 0]

While DOD tells it tales, reality tells another story:

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Seven U.S. soldiers were killed on Thursday when their Bradley Fighting Vehicle hit an explosive device on a road in northwestern Baghdad, the U.S. military said in a statement.

The group was on a routine security patrol when the attack occurred at 6 p.m. local time, said Captain Patricia Brewer, a U.S. military spokeswoman.

"All of the occupants were killed," she said.

Iraq's U.S.-backed government said on Thursday it was extending emergency powers equivalent to martial law for a further 30 days to try to safeguard Jan. 30 elections, which are under threat from deadly attacks.

More than 90 people, mostly Iraqi policemen, have been killed this week alone in the violent campaign targeting the U.S.-backed interim government, its security services and U.S. forces.

Since the war began in March 2003, 1,062 American troops have died in combat.

+ 2 marines dead elsewhere in Iraq today.

Quote[/b] ]PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - New Jersey is collecting used bulletproof vests for U.S. troops in Iraq to use as armor for their vehicles, following complaints that soldiers were underprotected.

Acting Gov. Richard Codey on Thursday asked all local, state and federal law enforcement agencies in New Jersey to donate used vests that could be used to strengthen armor on military vehicles.

"We are establishing regional drop-off points at our National Guard armories to collect used bulletproof vests to give our troops every possible protection," Codey said in a statement.

The vests are intended for vehicles and not for individual soldiers, who already have personal body armor, the statement said.

The U.S. government has been accused in recent months of failing to properly protect its forces in Iraq where some 140,000 troops are fighting an insurgency.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, on a visit to Kuwait last month, was grilled by a U.S. soldier who said troops have been forced to protect their vehicles with any scrap they can find.

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Army Specialist Thomas Wilson asked Rumsfeld, to cheers from some 2,000 fellow soldiers.

Codey's initiative was launched because he wanted to help an existing grass-roots appeal, said Sean Darcy, a spokesman for the acting governor. "This was something that was already going on, and he wanted to give it greater prominence," Darcy said.

The vest-collection effort could also give politically useful publicity to Codey, who took over as acting governor in November from the resigned Jim McGreevey. Codey is considering a run for a full term this year and would face a tough field of potential challengers.

Some vests are being collected by the New Jersey State Association of Chiefs of Police, whose forces total some 25,000 officers. Even as the vests reach the end of their useful life for people, they can still help reinforce vehicles, said Mitchell Sklar, executive director of the organization.

"There are hundreds and hundreds of vests that we have no use for and, rather than dumping them, we feel that we are doing our bit," Sklar said.

[Gollum1 0]

Thousands of million dollar Tomahawks sitting in battleships and not even some armor plates for the men on the ground...

[Akira 0]

Hey...

I was watching the Newshour and they stated that one of the units that lost soldiers in the cafeteria attack was a Stryker unit from Fort Lewis.

Thats not Pins Da Smoke's unit is it?

[EiZei 0]

Thought he had returned already?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Desperate to blow the election off course

Jan 5th 2005

From The Economist Global Agenda

Continuing a bloody campaign to disrupt Iraq’s upcoming parliamentary election, insurgents have assassinated the governor of Baghdad. The withdrawal of the largest Sunni Muslim party from the election on security grounds has led to more calls for its postponement—but so far it looks like being held as planned on January 30th

IRAQ’S insurgents have once again demonstrated their ability to strike at the heart of the country’s leadership, with the assassination of Ali al-Haidri, the governor of Baghdad province, on Tuesday January 4th. The governor and a bodyguard were killed when gunmen opened fire on his car, in the west of the capital. A statement apparently from a group led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, an ally of al-Qaeda, said the governor was killed for being an “American agentâ€. Hours earlier, a suicide bomber killed eight Iraqi policemen and three civilians at a checkpoint near the high-security Green Zone, which houses the interim government and foreign embassies. On Monday, a suicide car-bomber killed two people while trying to crash through a roadblock near the headquarters of the Iraqi National Accord—the party of Iyad Allawi, the interim prime minister—shortly before the party had been due to announce its list of candidates for the parliamentary elections on January 30th.

These were among the latest in a string of audacious attacks aimed at making Iraq so insecure that it is impossible to hold plausible elections. The insurgents are mainly drawn from Iraq’s Sunni Muslim Arabs, who make up only about a fifth of the country’s 26m population but have long been used to ruling the place, during Saddam Hussein’s regime and before. They know that a democratic vote would result in a government dominated by the country’s Shia Muslim majority. At least as bad from the insurgents’ viewpoint is that a successful election would help legitimise the American-led invasion of Iraq—and that the ensuing new administration might maintain good relations with America and ask its troops to stay.

A final defeat of the militants still looks very far off: this week, Mr Allawi's intelligence chief, Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani, told the French News Agency (AFP) he reckoned there were perhaps 200,000 insurgents (including those who provide logistics and shelter to the fighters), easily outnumbering the American troops in Iraq.

Last month, Osama bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaeda and an inspiration to some Sunni militants, urged them on by arguing that democracy itself is un-Islamic, because it means rule by the people, rather than by the Almighty. This theological viewpoint is clearly not shared by Iraq’s most senior Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who is pressing for the elections to go ahead on schedule, despite calls from moderate Sunnis, and even some leading Shias, for a delay.

On December 27th the Iraqi Islamic Party, a large and moderate Sunni group, became the latest to pull out of the elections and call for their postponement, on the grounds that the continuing violence, which is concentrated in Sunni-majority areas, made it impossible to conduct a fair vote. More-hardline Sunni groups, such as the Muslim Scholars' Board, have been adamant that they will not take part in an election while American-led forces continue to occupy the country. But for mainstream Sunni Arabs, the decision has been harder. If they take part, they might come under attack from their more militant brethren, and the low turnouts in their heartlands might deny them fair representation in the new parliament. On the other hand, if they boycott the elections, their people might have no say at all in how the country is run.

With the insurgents stepping up their efforts to disrupt the election, and more mainstream Sunnis dropping out, there have been calls for a postponement even from among members of Mr Allawi’s interim administration. On Monday, the defence minister, Hazim al-Shaalan—a secular Shia, like the prime minister himself—said while visiting Cairo that he was asking Egypt to try to persuade Iraqi Sunnis to take part in the election but that if they continued to boycott it, then the vote should be put off. The chances of Egypt achieving such a turnaround in Sunni opinion (assuming it even tries) are not good. Speaking to Reuters news agency on Tuesday, Iraq’s interim president, Ghazi al-Yawar, a Sunni, called on the United Nations to consider having the election postponed. The next day, as the deadly attacks continued with the killing of at least 15 people at an Iraqi police academy, Mr Allawi insisted, for the umpteenth time, that there will be no postponement. In this he has America's and Mr Sistani's firm backing.

On balance, it still seems likely that the election will take place on January 30th in most parts of the country. Given the state Iraq is in, it is hard to predict how each of the various political coalitions will do. Mr Allawi heads the “Iraqi Listâ€, a Shia-led alliance that includes the interim prime minister’s party and some moderate Sunnis. It promises ordinary Iraqis the law and order they crave. It faces a tough challenge from the United Iraqi Alliance, a Shia coalition whose leaders include Abdelaziz al-Hakim, a cleric close to Mr Sistani, and Ahmed Chalabi, a secular politician who used to be backed by Washington but has fallen out with his former Pentagon pals.

What America and its allies hope for is a repeat of last month’s election in Afghanistan, in which threats of widespread disruption by Islamist militants failed to materialise, and the American-backed interim president, Hamid Karzai, won a convincing mandate. Such a promising outcome is far from guaranteed in Iraq and, as in Afghanistan, would only be a first step towards stability. In both countries, the militant groups are far from finished and the reformed Iraqi and Afghan security forces are still weak, ill-trained and prone to desertions and infiltration. Afghanistan’s newly elected president and the elected parliament that Iraq is due to gain shortly will remain vulnerable for some time to those hell-bent on attacking both them and the concept of democracy itself.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3534346

[EiZei 0]

Think this has been posted somewhere here but what the hell:

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi soldiers awarded ARCOM for heroism

By By Staff Sgt. Fred Minnick

MOSUL, Iraq (Army News Service Jan. 7, 2005) --Two Iraqi National Guard soldiers were awarded the Army Commendation Medal Jan. 3 for their heroic acts after a suicide bomber attacked the Forward Operating Base Marez dining facility in southwest Mosul Dec. 21.

The two Iraqis saved the life of an American Soldier suffering severe wounds and carried several other wounded to safety.

“The attack of December 21 was not only intended to take lives, it was intended to divide two nations,” said Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, who awarded the ARCOMs. “The actions taken by these ING soldiers indicate clearly that American Soldiers and the Iraqi soldiers are one. We are very greatful for your brave actions that day.”

The Iraqis were eating lunch with their ING and U.S. comrades when the explosion occurred. Both of the Iraqi soldiers were blown from their seats by the blast, which they described as, “very powerful, lots of noise and heat.” They were both dazed. One of them could only hear a loud ringing sound in his ears. The other couldn’t believe his eyes – everywhere he looked people were gasping for air or bleeding profusely.

Before the two Iraqis lay a helpless American Soldier, who fell to the ground after staggering across the smoke-filled mess hall. They couldn’t understand his words, they saw the wound above his knee and realized the American’s life was in danger.

“Recognizing the Soldier’s injury as potentially life-threatening, the two ING soldiers employed first aid techniques learned during recent training with U.S. Special Forces and used their belts to apply a tourniquet to the U.S. Soldier’s leg to stop the bleeding, and then moved the Soldier out of the danger area,” said Maj. Jim Harrell, a Multi-National Forces spokesman in Mosul.

They moved the Soldier to a MEDEVAC vehicle using a two-man litter carry. After they hoisted the Soldier in the truck, the two Iraqis – one an officer, the other an NCO – ran back to the facility and began treating the other wounded, without regard for their own safety.

Herrell said the ING soldiers, with their American partners, rendered first aid to two very seriously wounded comrades from their unit and at least five other U.S. and ING Soldiers, applying field dressings and moving the wounded by litter and buddy-carry to evacuation vehicles.

Once the smoke cleared and the severely wounded had been evacuated, medical personnel checked the two ING soldiers to ensure they had suffered no severe injuries. The Iraqis waved off medical attention, simply wanting to see the American they helped “to make sure he’s OK,” said the officer.

Both Iraqis said they had great admiration for their U.S. counterparts. As for their own actions, the officer said, “This was our duty. We are a team, and we take care of each other.”

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]http://aj.zerodistance.org/1weekendamonth.jpg

   I can't stand that kind of crap. Any one who joins the guard or reserve thinking they'll never be called up is an ass hole plain and simple.

   People like that tarnish the image of the entire guard and reserves. I mean christ, based on images like that you end up picturing a bunch of pussies who can't hack it in the field. Reminds me of Sgt' Bilko or Michails Navy.

[ran 0]

Remember that these people have a life on their own and that they joined the reserve forces with the protection of their country in mind, not for some waste of time oversea. These people leave families and businesses behind, and they're not conditionned for it.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ] I can't stand that kind of crap. Any one who joins the guard or reserve thinking they'll never be called up is an ass hole plain and simple.

People like that tarnish the image of the entire guard and reserves. I mean christ, based on images like that you end up picturing a bunch of pussies who can't hack it in the field. Reminds me of Sgt' Bilko or Michails Navy.

And what about the military, producing the "Only one weekend a month" commercials? You don't think they have some obligations to the soldiers?

Or perhaps they expected the same treatment as their commander-in-chief got when he did his national guard service.  

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ] I can't stand that kind of crap. Any one who joins the guard or reserve thinking they'll never be called up is an ass hole plain and simple.

People like that tarnish the image of the entire guard and reserves. I mean christ, based on images like that you end up picturing a bunch of pussies who can't hack it in the field. Reminds me of Sgt' Bilko or Michails Navy.

And what about the military, producing the "Only one weekend a month" commercials? You don't think they have some obligations to the soldiers?

I recall reading that they stopped showing those ads shortly after they started calling up national guardsmen, how peculiar.

Didn't Nixon or LBJ make clear during Vietnam war that National guard would not be deployed abroad under any circumstances?

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]Or perhaps they expected the same treatment as their commander-in-chief got when he did his national guard service.  

I love how you try to exploit our president with little uneccasary comments , it makes me giggle.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Or perhaps they expected the same treatment as their commander-in-chief got when he did his national guard service.  

I love how you try to exploit our president with little uneccasary comments  , it makes me giggle.

I'm glad that I'm returning the favour as I am often very amused by your regular posting of unadulterated propaganda

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]I'm glad that I'm returning the favour as I am often very amused by your regular posting of unadulterated propaganda

   I'm supposed to believe your postings aren't? God forbid some one ever post something positive.

   So you honestly believe the reserves are meant for one weekend a month only and never any actual service?  Every one knows that it's one weekend a month + one full month during the year + possible wartime or emergency deployment.

   Bottom line is this, what the fuck point are the reserves if you can never use them?

Quote[/b] ]Didn't Nixon or LBJ make clear during Vietnam war that National guard would not be deployed abroad under any circumstances?

    This isn't the Vietnam war, that one ended long ago. Also a little trivia for you, the National guard has deployed over seas in the past.

Quote[/b] ]And what about the military, producing the "Only one weekend a month" commercials? You don't think they have some obligations to the soldiers?

    Maybe they should of read the contract before they signed it. All the info is in the contract, so bullshit to the commercial cop out.

Quote[/b] ]These people leave families and businesses behind, and they're not conditionned for it.

Then they should not have joined in the first f'n place

[denoir 0]

I'm supposed to believe your postings aren't? God forbid some one ever post something positive.

It's about the sources. Army News Service? Hardly an unbiased or serious source, especially during a time of war. You won't find me posting equivalents from the other side (Al Jazeera editorials, Mudjahedeen News Service,..whatever)

Don't take me wrong, I don't want people to stop posting such material. It's really a hillarious read because it's so transparent and so reminiscent of cold war Soviet propaganda or current official communiqués from North Korea. It has a nostalgic, almost cult quality not to mention that it serves as a reminder how little things actually change over time.

I enjoy those posts for aesthetic reasons, not for their content. It's about the style of the desperate denial of the reality on the ground.

And the fact that Wilco posts these things without a hint of sarcasm or any reflection at all, makes it even better.

Quote[/b] ]Bottom line is this, what the fuck point are the reserves if you can never use them?

National Guard. As the name implies, to guard the territorial integrity of the US. They're "weekend warriors", not professionally trained soldiers. The shit they are asked to do in Iraq is not what they have been trained or equipped for. Cut them some slack.

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]Or perhaps they expected the same treatment as their commander-in-chief got when he did his national guard service.  

I love how you try to exploit our president with little uneccasary comments  , it makes me giggle.

I'm glad that I'm returning the favour as I am often very amused by your regular posting of unadulterated propaganda

Propoganda?

If you mean by the stories and pictures, that isn't propoganda, I see so much negative things about how the U.S. isn't supposed to be in Iraq and how soldiers aren't doing their job right, what is that called? Your stories and my stories are factual, and that is all.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]National Guard. As the name implies, to guard the territorial integrity of the US. They're "weekend warriors", not professionally trained soldiers. The shit they are asked to do in Iraq is not what they have been trained or equipped for. Cut them some slack.

I thought this NG stuff was finished months ago. The NG has been deployed around the world.. both World Wars..Korean War..Vietnam...Middle East (i.e. Desert Storm)..Africa..Haiti..Balkans and etc.

Territorial integrity, eh? (World War II goes in to territoral thing..not WWI in my opinion)