The Iraq thread 4

[billybob2002 0]

Kuma is old and crappy. I think they did a mission about one of the police station assualts. Also, they did a Kerry mission. Kuma should of waited at least a few years...

[Frisbee 0]

Sergio Diaz Varela of Lomita joined the Army to buy his mother a house.

Sad, but he should have known/knew the risks.

But still, is it so that a large number of people join up because of reasons like this? Money for college, things like that.

On one hand it's sad that people have to put their lives on the line for things they need (or maybe they're being materialistic bastards, I don't claim to know).

On the other hand, joining up is probably better than going for a criminal career to finance stuff like this. :/

(I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's a death to be mourned without a doubt)

[PeterEyres 0]

Quote[/b] ]Video Game Celebrates Fallujah Slaughter

BreakForNews.com, 3rd Nov, 2004 11:00ET

by Fintan Dunne, Editor

Research KathyMcMahon EXCLUSIVE

http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/KumaWarAlFajr.htm

If you thought the new video game inviting players to try their virtual skills at assassinating JFK was tasteless, hold on to your hat. A just-released mission in the Kuma wargame series is themed "Fallujah: Operation al-Fajr." It re-creates the recent assault on Fallujah, which may have left thousands of civilians dead.

Players join U.S. Marines and Army soldiers in their attack on the Jolan district in Fallujah. For the making "Fallujah: Operation al-Fajr" Kuma Reality Games used detailed satellite imagery of Jolan.

Publicity material for yesterday's new game says players "dodge sniper fire and protect civilians," while fighting to secure the Jolan district. "Protect civilians"?

REALISTIC?

Perhaps the action is not that "realistic" after all. Civilians there outnumbered rebels by perhaps thirty to one. They bore the brunt of a relentless US bombardment of Jolan. News media reports say this included 2,000-pound bombs, helicopter gunships and artillery.

Independent journalists and Arab media say napalm-like weapons and poison gas were also deployed. Reporter, Dahr Jamail told BreakForNews.com that witnesses saw people poisoned, fall to the ground and die. Other reports describe firebombs spewing lethal contents which adhered to skin and burned unquenchably.

Only later did the soldiers --the real ones-- come to root out any "resistance" left alive. This involved the use of cluster bombs and grenades tossed into homes, with devastating results in at least one case. Cowering inside was a family - not virtual terrorists. A young boy was hospitalized with grenade fragment injuries.

Don't expect that kind of realism from the latest Kuma offering. "Fallujah: Operation al-Fajr" is the sanitized electronic world of good guys and bad guys. Just like Bush's war. And you can guess who the good guys are.

The Kuma /War series is lovingly following the action around Iraq, and modeling game chapters on set-piece recreations of real military operations. Players have battled the Medi army in the south and hunted down Uday and Qusay Hussein.

We are now up to Mission #28. In the coming weeks, game subscribers will get missions that re-create current combat in Fallujah and elsewhere in Iraq.

SEAMLESS INTEGRATION

Many missions are being developed in cooperation with the US military.

"Fallujah: Operation al-Fajr" even contains a discussion with Major General Thomas L. Wilkerson, USMC (ret) on the strategy behind the fight for control of Fallujah. The last mission before Fallujah, was "Ramadi Convoy Exercise,"

based on the same training mission Kuma\War modeled for CASCOM - the US Army Combined Arms Support Command.

Kuma Reality Games has just opened voting for its "Stories from the Front" contest. The contest asked soldiers to contribute stories from their actual experiences in the battlefield. The winner's story will become an upcoming mission. The winner will be featured with three friends as characters in the re-creation of the winning story.

The eligible entries have been slimmed to finalists like: Beneath the Saddam Mosque, the story of a rescue team searching for a kidnapped woman in the tunnels beneath a mujahedeen-controled mosque; Baghdad Cowboy details an ambush on enemies to rescue a troubled Fallujah convoy; and Saddam City Shocker centers around a squad that fights its way across a bridge into Saddam City.

This is the seamless integration of military gaming and real military action. The two have become one. Virtually. A seamless virtual reality whose barbarity and insensitivity is puzzling to the "reality-based" community.

In Fallujah, during the bombing families could hear the screams from those whose homes had been hit, but they had to keep their heads down and pray.

Kuma should have taped those screams.

lmao, that article is way off the mark.

Soldeirs tossing cluster bombs into houses? Wtf.

Poison gas

Not to mention overwhelmingly biased.

[bn880 5]

Well AP grenades are cluster bombs... err i mean shrapnel bombs.... It's a technicality, the issue is probably that they can be tossed into places where someone innocent is hiding...

Everyone laughjing at the poison gas and cluster bomb claims is laughing at their own stupidity! Think for a minute, Iraqi insurgents, most have knowledge of 30 to 40 year old weaponry, and so was the state of Iraq's defense.

[philcommando 0]

There's a new wind in the air....

"..this is not a war about christianity against islam, but a fight of moderate muslims against radical fanatics..."

A new twist in the coalition strategy?

Lol!...somethings never change..sigh..why does history repeats itself?

Since when did the moderates ever pick up and REALLY fight his muslim brothers?? All they do is talk and talk and claim they are against radicalism. All the talk and crocodile tears while the rest of world is reeling from the effects of terrorism.

When will the administration learn the muslims are NEVER gonna fight their so call fellow misguided brothers. The religion is too ingrained in them. IF they wanted, they would have stomped them out eons ago. Looks like the administration gonna waste more money arming the 'moderate' guys and seeing the weapons fall right into the laps of the fanatics.

The only way i pray that the administration will see the light, is MONEY!.......stop the flow, stop the backslapping of selling arms for money when infront condemn and embargo. Seek alternatives to oil for energy. Stop the flow of hardearned taxpayers money into dubious 'assistance' plans to arm the moderates. THEY ARE NOT GONNA FIGHT, HELL NO! WAKE UP America!!!!

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Since when did the moderates ever pick up and REALLY fight his muslim brothers?? All they do is talk and talk and claim they are against radicalism. All the talk and crocodile tears while the rest of world is reeling from the effects of terrorism.

As the Afghan soldiers refuse to fight the Taliban insurgents?Actually,no they are taking an overwelming procent of all military deaths in the country and I have yet to hear any reports of desertings and refusals to stand up and fight.

So why is Iraq completly difrent?Why is the Iraqi insurgency a hundread times more ferocious and deadly when it should have been the opposite as the Afghans have a more apropriate enviroment to fight in with safeheavens in the mountains and experience in guerilla warefere fighting the soviets in the 80's.

The problem could be that as any other population Iraqis have ears,eyes and unfortunatly a mind of their own too.How could moderates argue with rebels when they say:

Brother,almost all mujahedeen accepted at first the occupation as the situations was relative calm at first.We were suspicious remembering the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War when tens of thousands of Shi'ites Iraqis were killed after being mislead to rebel by Bush.But we understood that Iraq was an imminent threat to world stability because of it's WMD arsenal and close ties with Al-Queda.Now we know they were all lies and our sons,doughters and brothers died for them.We also thought that we would be respected and liberated but instead they torture us in the most humiliating manner and a direct afront to our religion in their prisons.They shoot at civillians indiscriminatly,even their news agency can't keep that a secret from the world,they even fire missles at weddings.

They also claimed we are a bunch of Saddam fanatics.Well Saddam was captured a year ago and the resistance only got stronger.Now they try to show us the the world as a bunch of foreigners led by a terrorist by the name of Zarqawi in Fallujah .After dozens of airstrikes they finally leveled the city to the ground and yet again he is nowhere to be seen of.

On top of all,they appointed a puppet government led by a CIA operative that hasn't stepped foot in our country for the last 3 decades running like a pathetic rabbit after a foiled atempt at Saddam's life and a career as his henchm.

So tell me brother can you sit down in the face of such barbaric agression against our country and religion when the Fallujah mujahedeen are giving their lifes fighting against all odds to repel evil and free our country?

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Independent journalists and Arab media say napalm-like weapons and poison gas were also deployed. Reporter, Dahr Jamail told BreakForNews.com that witnesses saw people poisoned, fall to the ground and die. Other reports describe firebombs spewing lethal contents which adhered to skin and burned unquenchably.

Quote[/b] ]lmao, that article is way off the mark.

Soldeirs tossing cluster bombs into houses? Wtf.

Poison gas    

Not to mention overwhelmingly biased.

Do you have undeniable proof? Tossing of cluster bombs aside. Perhaps they used white phosphorous. Who knows.

You don't exactly seem terribly impartial yourself.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Gunmen kill Iraqis working for US

Insurgents have killed 21 Iraqis in a series of attacks across the country.

Seventeen civilians working for the American military died and 13 more were hurt when gunmen opened fire on a bus taking them to a base in Tikrit.

Elsewhere on Sunday, four members of the Iraq security forces were killed in the towns of Beiji and Samarra.

Continuing violence has raised concerns over January's planned election but interim Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari says the poll must and will be held.

BBC World News

One has to admit (unfortunately) that they are remarkably succesfull in their tactics. Police and military recruits, civilian working for USA forces or the iraqi authoroties and other "innocent" civilians!

Any thoughts on what this will achieve in the long run?

[theavonlady 2]

Any thoughts on what this will achieve in the long run?

Possibly a Shi'ite/Sunni confrontation.

[quicksand 0]

Who knows if they will ever achieve anything.I as everyone else on this forum have only media outlets at hand helping me to form a picture about their goals.If their insurgency campaign is unexpectedly succesful by the end of this war with US forces expelled from this country prospects are grim if I myself have an unbiased grasp of knowledge  as I have been trying to form.

Either they succeded in fooling everybody including US intelligence sources or they are indeed a decentralised force and as it helps them fight a guerilla war without the prospect of loosing indispensable figures the rifts between those wanting to form a Saddam style secular government marking the resurgance of the Ba'ath party and those hoping for a traditional ismalic state could be to much to bare.The Kurds and Shia are also not expected just to stand and watch their one shot oportunity at power after decades of opression drift away.

Of course such events are extremly unpredictable.You could have a Sunni Shia confrunation as many US analysts would like to advance as certinty but you could also witness compromise possibly in the form of sunnis accepting a government led by a coallition with figures such as Moqtada Al-Sadr who is also an advocate for national resistance realising that it would be the only way to avoid further bloodshed.

Bottom line the situation has passed way beyond being fragile,the stakes couldn't have been higher.It would be ignorant for me to deny that right now given the circumstances the best thing for the Iraqis is US forces staying in the country and crawl the way past ellections which is an absolute mandatory step if any Iraq state would ever again enojoy security and independence.

[theavonlady 2]

From yesterday, on Hammorabi's blog (I didn't see this yesterday when I posted above about the possibility of civil war):

Quote[/b] ]Verge of a Civil War in Iraq!

Verge of a Civil War in Iraq!

Kerbala News Net mentioned that an ethnic cleansing going on now in Alyosfyiah (South of Baghdad) against the Shia families.

Two days ago masked terrorists attacked ten houses belong to Shia families. They masked terrorists smashed the doors and attacked the families. They had beaten with metal rods indiscriminately children, women, old and young.

They broke out the legs of an old man in his seventies.

They kidnapped two children. One of them found killed and thrown beside the main road. The family of the other found him in the hospital after they shot him in the head with one close bullet.

The ten families left the area and abandoned their farms and properties.

Iraq is on the verge of a civil war if not already started at least from the Sunni side. If it is broken it will not exclude any one including the US forces.

It is definitely the last nail in the failure of the US in Iraq.

They only solution is to deal with it by the Iraqi way and to give the countries which support the terrorists inside Iraq an unforgettable lesson by surgical strikes whoever they are and also supporting those who would like to topple them. Let it be a WW4.

[theavonlady 2]

Stories of tragic heroism from the battlefield:

Quote[/b] ]A Hero's sacrifice

Submitted by: 1st Force Service Support Group

Story Identification #: 2004123102943

Story by Lance Cpl. T. J. Kaemmerer

FALLUJAH, Iraq (Dec. 02, 2004) -- "You’re still here, don’t forget that. Tell your kids, your grandkids, what Sgt. Peralta did for you and the other Marines today."

As a combat correspondent, I was attached to Company A, 1st Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment for Operation Al Fajr, to make sure the stories of heroic actions and the daily realities of battle were told.

On this day, I found myself without my camera. With the batteries dead, I decided to leave the camera behind and live up to the ethos "every Marine a rifleman," by volunteering to help clear the fateful buildings that lined streets.

After seven days of intense fighting in Fallujah, the Marines of 1/3 embraced a new day with a faceless enemy.

We awoke November 15, 2004, around day-break in the abandoned, battle-worn house we had made our home for the night. We shaved, ate breakfast from a Meal, Ready-to-Eat pouch and waited for the word to move.

The word came, and we started what we had done since the operation began – clear the city of insurgents, building by building.

As an attachment to the unit, I had been placed as the third man in a six-man group, or what Marines call a 'stack.' Two stacks of Marines were used to clear a house. Moving quickly from the third house to the fourth, our order in the stack changed. I found Sgt. Rafael Peralta in my spot, so I fell in behind him as we moved toward the house.

A Mexican-American who lived in San Diego, Peralta earned his citizenship after he joined the Marine Corps. He was a platoon scout, which meant he could have stayed back in safety while the squads of 1st Platoon went into the danger filled streets, but he was constantly asking to help out by giving them an extra Marine. I learned by speaking with him and other Marines the night before that he frequently put his safety, reputation and career on the line for the needs and morale of the junior Marines around him.

When we reached the fourth house, we breached the gate and swiftly approached the building. The first Marine in the stack kicked in the front door, revealing a locked door to their front and another at the right.

Kicking in the doors simultaneously, one stack filed swiftly into the room to the front as the other group of Marines darted off to the right.

"Clear!" screamed the Marines in one of the rooms followed only seconds later by another shout of "clear!" from the second room. One word told us all we wanted to know about the rooms: there was no one in there to shoot at us.

We found that the two rooms were adjoined and we had another closed door in front of us. We spread ourselves throughout the rooms to avoid a cluster going through the next door.

Two Marines stacked to the left of the door as Peralta, rifle in hand, tested the handle. I watched from the middle, slightly off to the right of the room as the handle turned with ease.

Ready to rush into the rear part of the house, Peralta threw open the door.

‘POP! POP! POP!’ Multiple bursts of cap-gun-like sounding AK-47 fire rang throughout the house.

Three insurgents with AK-47s were waiting for us behind the door.

Peralta was hit several times in his upper torso and face at point-blank range by the fully-automatic 7.62mm weapons employed by three terrorists.

Mortally wounded, he jumped into the already cleared, adjoining room, giving the rest of us a clear line of fire through the doorway to the rear of the house.

We opened fire, adding the bangs of M-16A2 service rifles, and the deafening, rolling cracks of a Squad Automatic Weapon, or “SAW,†to the already nerve-racking sound of the AKs. One Marine was shot through the forearm and continued to fire at the enemy.

I fired until Marines closer to the door began to maneuver into better firing positions, blocking my line of fire. Not being an infantryman, I watched to see what those with more extensive training were doing.

I saw four Marines firing from the adjoining room when a yellow, foreign-made, oval-shaped grenade bounced into the room, rolling to a stop close to Peralta’s nearly lifeless body.

In an act living up to the heroes of the Marine Corps’ past, such as Medal of Honor recipients Pfc. James LaBelle and Lance Cpl. Richard Anderson, Peralta – in his last fleeting moments of consciousness- reached out and pulled the grenade into his body. LaBelle fought on Iwo Jima and Anderson in Vietnam, both died saving their fellow Marines by smothering the blast of enemy grenades.

Peralta did the same for all of us in those rooms.

I watched in fear and horror as the other four Marines scrambled to the corners of the room and the majority of the blast was absorbed by Peralta’s now lifeless body. His selflessness left four other Marines with only minor injuries from smaller fragments of the grenade.

During the fight, a fire was sparked in the rear of the house. The flames were becoming visible through the door.

The decision was made by the Marine in charge of the squad to evacuate the injured Marines from the house, regroup and return to finish the fight and retrieve Peralta’s body.

We quickly ran for shelter, three or four houses up the street, in a house that had already been cleared and was occupied by the squad’s platoon.

As Staff Sgt. Jacob M. Murdock took a count of the Marines coming back, he found it to be one man short, and demanded to know the whereabouts of the missing Marine.

"Sergeant Peralta! He’s dead! He’s f------ dead," screamed Lance Cpl. Adam Morrison, a machine gunner with the squad, as he came around a corner. "He’s still in there. We have to go back."

The ingrained code Marines have of never leaving a man behind drove the next few moments. Within seconds, we headed back to the house unknown what we may encounter yet ready for another round.

I don't remember walking back down the street or through the gate in front of the house, but walking through the door the second time, I prayed that we wouldn't lose another brother.

We entered the house and met no resistance. We couldn't clear the rest of the house because the fire had grown immensely and the danger of the enemy’s weapons cache exploding in the house was increasing by the second.

Most of us provided security while Peralta's body was removed from the house.

We carried him back to our rally point and upon returning were told that the other Marines who went to support us encountered and killed the three insurgents from inside the house.

Later that night, while I was thinking about the day’s somber events, Cpl. Richard A. Mason, an infantryman with Headquarters Platoon, who, in the short time I was with the company became a good friend, told me, "You’re still here, don’t forget that. Tell your kids, your grandkids, what Sgt. Peralta did for you and the other Marines today."

As a combat correspondent, this is not only my job, but an honor.

Throughout Operation Al Fajr, we were constantly being told that we were making history, but if the books never mention this battle in the future, I’m sure that the day and the sacrifice that was made, will never be forgotten by the Marines who were there.

Quote[/b] ]

Sgt. Rafael Peralta, 25, was a platoon scout, which meant he could have stayed back in safety while the squads of 1st Platoon went into the danger filled streets, but he was constantly asking to help out by giving them an extra Marine. I learned by speaking with him and other Marines the night before that he frequently put his safety, reputation and career on the line for the needs and morale of the junior Marines around him. A Mexican-American who lived in San Diego, Peralta earned his citizenship after he joined the Marine Corps. In an act living up to the heroes of the Marine Corps’ past, such as Medal of Honor recipients Pfc. James LaBelle and Lance Cpl. Richard Anderson, Peralta – in his last fleeting moments of consciousness- reached out and pulled the grenade into his body. LaBelle fought on Iwo Jima and Anderson in Vietnam, both died saving their fellow Marines by smothering the blast of enemy grenades. His selflessness left four other Marines with only minor injuries from smaller fragments of the grenade. Photo by: Official USMC photo

RIP

Quote[/b] ]

Lance Cpl. Travis J. Kaemmerer, a 21-year-old native of Taunton, Mass., is a combat correspondent assigned to the 1st Force Service Support Group and currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom in Iraq. As a combat correspondent, he was attached to Company A, 1st Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment during recent combat operations in Fallujah. His job was to make sure the stories of heroic actions and the daily realities of battle were told. He witnessed the deeds of Sgt. Rafael Peralta, who gave his life for to save his fellow Marines in combat. Sgt. Rafael Peralta, 25, was a platoon scout, which meant he could have stayed back in safety while the squads of 1st Platoon went into the danger filled streets, but he was constantly asking to help out by giving them an extra Marine. I learned by speaking with him and other Marines the night before that he frequently put his safety, reputation and career on the line for the needs and morale of the junior Marines around him. A Mexican-American who lived in San Diego, Peralta earned his citizenship after he joined the Marine Corps. In an act living up to the heroes of the Marine Corps’ past, such as Medal of Honor recipients Pfc. James LaBelle and Lance Cpl. Richard Anderson, Peralta – in his last fleeting moments of consciousness- reached out and pulled the grenade into his body. LaBelle fought on Iwo Jima and Anderson in Vietnam, both died saving their fellow Marines by smothering the blast of enemy grenades. His selflessness left four other Marines with only minor injuries from smaller fragments of the grenade. The Explosive Ordnance Disposal team found over a dozen rockets, multiple rocket launchers, other weapons and a large quantity of food in the house following the fire fight. Photo by: Staff Sgt. Jim Goodwin

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/05/musharraf.cnn/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was a mistake that has made the world a more dangerous place, but a swift withdrawal would make matters worse, Pakistan's president said this weekend.

"I think it's less safe," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

Asked whether he considered the invasion a mistake, the Pakistani leader said: "With hindsight, yes. We have landed ourselves in more trouble, yes."

Musharraf was in Washington on Saturday for a brief meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush and is now in London for talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Monday.

In Washington, the leaders of Pakistan and the United States discussed the issue of terrorism, bilateral concerns, relations between India and Pakistan and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. (Full story)

Although ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein "was a hated man" in his own country, many Iraqis have now turned their wrath on the U.S.-led forces that remain behind to provide security for an interim government, Musharraf said.

"People at the lower level don't like the visibility of foreign troops who are in their country," he said.

Pakistan opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

However, Musharraf said he does not believe U.S. and coalition troops should pull out immediately. Only after elections are held and the situation stabilized should the United States consider a withdrawal from Iraq, he said.

"[An early withdrawal] would create more problems in the region," he said. "Now that we are there, we need to stabilize the situation."

After the interview, a Pakistani government spokesman called CNN to say that Musharraf did not intend to be categorical in his assertion that Bush had erred in invading Iraq.

<snip>

[Baphomet 0]

That's just fucked. Now extremist Iraqis are making a concerted effort to kill civilians. Not that they might not have been before, however now it seems like an organized effort.

I hate to say it, but Iraq is very quickly becoming a total writeoff. It's impossible to fight off countless anonymous would-be Saddam-like despots. It seems apparent to me that it's like trying to empty a sinking ship with a teacup.

Evidence of where things will be headed after the coalition leaves was seen in Fallujah as a pocket of extremists took control of a certain area of the city and enforced some kind of perverted sharia law.

I have this feeling that Bush is pushing for this election so determinedly because that essentially constitutes one less thing to do before he can find an excuse to pull out.

That place will be much worse off than it was before the invasion once the U.S and what's left of the coalition leaves.

Saddam at least had something to lose, which implies there's only so far the guy would go to increase tensions on an international level. He had his ego and desire for prestige and his greed. Both good reasons for a dictator to not go pissing off powerful enemies too much. These new crazies, just care about nothing more than bringing their enemies down any way they can. Unfortunately this means bringing down a lot of innocent people in their country with them.

[BoweryBaker 0]

Why they always gotta fight over there, man? Why can't they just chill? Do they really have to fight?

[bn880 5]

Well, and do we really have to live?

Very similar once you think about it. It is a complex issue, but the unerlying problem is that what is happening now has broken many people's coping mechanisms; ability to ensure their well being and their beliefs.

[Leveler 0]

How well prepared were the Iraqi air defences against the american invasion. I have heard that both in desert storm 1 and 2 they were useless against the american airplanes.

[Jezz 0]

i seem to remember someone telling me that pre the first iraq war the russians sold iraq some sa6 gainful launchers but never sold them the straightflush/longtrack radar units which are required for them to work properly

[kerosene 0]

Well definatley, by the time of the Iraq invasion they were useless, they'd had a decade of embargo's, the airforce was out of commison, except for the planes Iran refused to give back after GW1.

No supplies or parts, and there were tons of airstrikes and small operations between the first gulf war and the invasion, every so often they'd lock onto a U.S or British jet and get a SAM site blown up in response. If I was an Iraqi manning an AA post I would have legged it at the first oppurtunity.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/07/iraq.cia.reut/index.html

Quote[/b] ]NEW YORK (Reuters) -- The situation in Iraq is unlikely to improve anytime soon, according to a classified cable and briefings from the Central Intelligence Agency, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

The assessments are more pessimistic than the Bush administration's portrayal of the situation to the public, government officials told the newspaper.

The classified cable -- sent last month by the CIA's station chief in Baghdad after the completion of a one-year tour of duty there -- painted a bleak picture of Iraq's politics, economics and security and reiterated briefings by Michael Kostiw, a senior CIA official, according to the Times.

The station chief cannot be identified because he is still working undercover, the Times added.

The cable, described as "unusually candid," cautioned that security in the country is likely to deteriorate unless the Iraqi government makes significant progress in asserting its authority and building up the economy, the paper said.

Spokesmen for the White House and the CIA told the Times that they could not discuss intelligence matters and classified documents.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/07/iraq.cia.reut/index.html

Quote[/b] ]NEW YORK (Reuters) -- The situation in Iraq is unlikely to improve anytime soon, according to a classified cable and briefings from the Central Intelligence Agency, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

The assessments are more pessimistic than the Bush administration's portrayal of the situation to the public, government officials told the newspaper.

The classified cable -- sent last month by the CIA's station chief in Baghdad after the completion of a one-year tour of duty there -- painted a bleak picture of Iraq's politics, economics and security and reiterated briefings by Michael Kostiw, a senior CIA official, according to the Times.

The station chief cannot be identified because he is still working undercover, the Times added.

The cable, described as "unusually candid," cautioned that security in the country is likely to deteriorate unless the Iraqi government makes significant progress in asserting its authority and building up the economy, the paper said.

Spokesmen for the White House and the CIA told the Times that they could not discuss intelligence matters and classified documents.

I thought classified cable meant classified..

[ralphwiggum 6]

if the article is true, then TBA should really work its ass off to get things straightened up.

[theavonlady 2]

I thought classified cable meant classified..

Cynical chuckle!

Quote[/b] ]Classified CIA Cable Warns of Danger of Leaks

(2004-12-07) -- A top-secret classified cable from the CIA station chief in Baghdad earlier this month warned of the dangers of stateside officials leaking classified information to the media in an effort to hamper the Bush administration's foreign policy, according to excerpts of the cable obtained exclusively by The New York Times.

The confidential document was initially sent through a secure channel to CIA headquarters, then disseminated widely among officials at the departments of defense and state and eventually made its way to numerous Congressional leaders who leaked it to the The New York Times, which put it on the front page.

"Information is a powerful weapon of war," wrote the unnamed undercover CIA agent, "And war is, by definition, messy. Frank evaluations of current conditions from operatives in the field are crucial to commanders who must shape strategy and tactics. Yet no matter how things are going in theater, the enemy must be made to believe that he is losing and the local citizens must believe that freedom will triumph over oppression. That's why it's essential that secrecy be maintained with respect to confidential communications like this."

"The alternative," he wrote, "is that we become our own worst enemies and scuttle our efforts to liberate the Iraqi people from decades of tyranny. And then American journalists can smugly celebrate the freedom of the press that Iraqi journalists will never know."

[bn880 5]

Kind of old, but can provide a lot of insight:

Putin questions how a democratic vote can take place under occupation by foreign powers:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR....FCD.htm

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]The king said in an interview with the newspaper that "it is in Iran's vested interest to have an Islamic republic of Iraq ... and therefore the involvement you're getting by the Iranians is to achieve a government that is very pro-Iran".

Sounds to me like this whole campaign in Iraq is likely going to bite the united states in the ass if it turns out that Iran can manage to influence the politics of a recently "democratized" nation. The U.S is complaining about the recalcitrance of that nation's government already, with much ruminating of a possible conflict with them in the indeterminate future.