Helicopters and aircraft: HUD and instruments?

[HKFlash 9]

Hi there guys,

I was thinking, about the helicopters/gunships and the aircraft cockpits and I was thinking, if we could make use of them.

Maybe some of you have already played a modern combat flight sim, such as Lock On Modern Air Combat or Falcon 4.0, Longbow II a simulator of gunships. These are simulators and one of their objective is recreate the cockpits inside the aircraft as better as possible.

Do you think the same should be applied in OFP2?

This is my main question, and it is for you to answer. Now my opinion.

As you know in Operation Flashpoint, when you board a gunship or an modern combat jet, you will not have a HUD (Heads Up Display) yet an interface that helps you to face your opponents by displaying their positions. Yet I would like some changes.

Let me just make a point in this discussion: I do not want a flight simulator in this game.

There are 2 changes that I want:

1- Cockpit instruments that are usefull not just textures. Horizontal horizon, altitude indicator (or altimeter), speed indicator, etc. I want them to be usefull and I dont an interface indicating my speed and altitude otherwise the instruments would useless.

2- HUD. I want some HUD that look like the reality ones, but dont have diferent combat and flights modes. You know just a small HUD indicating my altitude and my Speed, my heading. Combat systems too, but very basic, like lock and fire. Not much complicated. (although this for me is "piece of cake")

Just one more thing: when hit and not destroyed our aircraft HUD should disable itself.

Why these changes? Well, before I state my reasons I should warn you that I never played in multi player this game.

These changes have a simple porpose: to distinguish pilots from infantry men. In OFP an Infantry man can use an Helicopter, but they may not be pilots because 1- there are too many pilots 2- They prefer gunfights on the ground.

By adding these changes many "happy triger" people that just want to pop some tanks would leave the "pilot life". After all this is a simulation, and I personnally think that gunships and aircraft with simple control management are like weapons of mass destruction in OFP1. Let's hope the sequel changes that.

Well now to the moderators: sorry if this is a repost. I used the search button and I read the wishlist summary.

Regards to all.

[HKFlash 9]

Oops! Sorry guys this topic wasnt supposed to be here in the OFP2 - GENERAL yet on the OFP2 - SUGGESTIONS.

My apologies to the moderators and administrators. Please move the topic to OFP 2 - SUGGESTION.

Again my apologies.

[Friedchiken 0]

Well, just my idea, I think that having easier pilot huds ect would prevent helicopters full of passengers from blowing up b/c the pilot is a CS idiot...

But I would like a no hud difficulty option along with a no "target dot in vehicles" option as well.

This would make helicopter rocket targeting less accurate or more realistic. (Like how those helicopters in We Were Soldiers had those "iron sights")

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Well, just my idea, I think that having easier pilot huds ect would prevent helicopters full of passengers from blowing up b/c the pilot is a CS idiot...

But I would like a no hud difficulty option along with a no "target dot in vehicles" option as well.

This would make helicopter rocket targeting less accurate or more realistic. (Like how those helicopters in We Were Soldiers had those "iron sights")

The 'CS idiot' would crash the chopper if the controls consisted of two buttons, stop and start. The best solution is to make the piloting at least semi-realistic, so that you only get in vehicles with people you trust.

[Friedchiken 0]

Well, I was only making the case for the other side.  I actually want a flight system where choppers are fairly simple to control, yet the flight system should be fairly realistic.  For example, I think helicopters cannot go past a certain speed limit or else something like torque balance or air resistance would become a dangerous condition.  Also, after looking at MS flight simulator, I think helicopters must be handled delicately in the air or else they'll tip over or something.

I'm sure that BIS will find a difficulty balance that they can realistically implement.  I just don't think that people should make incredibly sharp turns in the air at dangerous velocities w/o some loss of control.

BTW: I crashed 3 times in a row trying to fly the helicopters in that Desert Combat mod at a lan party...  Does that suck?  

[HKFlash 9]

No it doesnt suck. The helicopters in Desert Combat and the Harrier are both hard to pilot.

[ebns72 0]

Being a pilot IRL, I'm all for more realistic flying. Flying is ofp is relatively easy and you don't really need instruments to fly unlike real life. Better flight model, more instruments...I say yes.

EDIT: how bout adjustable difficulty options, like easy flight, realistic flight-works in games like MS flight simulator and IL2.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I've seen a Boeing 747 do loop the loops and barrell rolls in MS Flight Sim 2004, so as realistic as it "looks" the physics are something to be desired... anyway the "going over top speed" thing has been done already, download the WGL mod, it's in there. Your engine becomes damaged if you over torque it and can fail if you don't slow down quick enough. You also go through a 1 min process of checking all of your systems, which granted it doesn't actually do, but it does add some level of reaism, so you can't just jump in a chopper and away you go.

[Longjocks 0]

I'm still of the school where fixed wing flight is removed from OFP until such a time that we can combine large enough environments to support them and enough simultaneous players online to make such a large scale battle more interesting. For single-players (like myself) it'll always be better to play something like LOMAC if I want to fly and OFP if I want infantry level combat.

Scalable helicopter difficulty might be good though.

[HKFlash 9]

Well I never downloaded F/A-18s or F-16s. I must agree that these kind of aircraft have a high speed and acceleration for these scenarios of 100 square Km. (?)

Gunships though should continue in OFP.

[ebns72 0]

I've seen a Boeing 747 do loop the loops and barrell rolls in MS Flight Sim 2004, so as realistic as it "looks" the physics are something to be desired... anyway the "going over top speed" thing has been done already, download the WGL mod, it's in there. Your engine becomes damaged if you over torque it and can fail if you don't slow down quick enough. You also go through a 1 min process of checking all of your systems, which granted it doesn't actually do, but it does add some level of reaism, so you can't just jump in a chopper and away you go.

heheh yeah MS flight sim is still alittle exaggerated.

fixed flight in ofp2, even if the physics are good, will still be bad unless they manage to give the game decent visibilty.

I have personally never flown a helicopter before. But the knowledge I have collected from other flight simulations is that helicopters in OFP "feels" realistic but they put enough limiters on it so it is easy to fly.

[Commando84 0]

Okay i want to say something about the flying in ofp.

I love it but the original stuff that is going to be made in ofp 2 i hope can be improved

Flares and audio warning when being locked on by AA rockets and another audio warning sound when the rockets are flying your way. another thing would be that you use 1 key on the keyboard to drop flares so that you don't have to change weapons to drop flares or have automatic flare droping as in some addons, automatic can be annoying because then it gets very hard to shoot something down sometimes

And one important thing! Don't change the flying controls!!! They are superb as they are, i want to kill my keyboard when i fly aircraft in other games like battlefield or something else..

only thing i would like to see is that you should be able to make loops with the keyboard n mouse..

hate it when you play online and you are the only one that doesn't have a uber cool flight sim 2004 flyght stick that owns my crappy keyboard style flying

landing gear that can be lowered and raised and the ability to have awacs planes with easy ingame trigger script or initline scripts so that you can set how much it can detect and if the enemy should attack it and flyinheight and stuff like that.

Oh and my biggest wish would be that me as a mission designer and a multiplayer loving person that iam would be able to have both players and a.i being able to use carriers and different airbases at the sametime to land and repair, refuel and stuff like that. In other words to increase the 1 airfield useable by the a.i limit in ofp

That would just make me jump up n down in joy.

better a.i transport aircraft flying and landing and stuff like that. Being able to make special dogfighting A.i for coop! So that a.i doesn't only fly around in circles trying to take you down but it would also be able to make loops and a few other dogfighting maneuvers

the higher the skill you put in the a.i pilots the more advanced maneuvers they would pull on you and other a.i's

aircraft carriers and other ships that would be able to drive and sitt in multiple gunner positions and being able to land on, and when you try to land on the carrier you would get a action in the action menu to ILS land automatically like the landing auto stuff in regular ofp but it would help you land on aricraft carriers too hmm and yeah if you could move around inside cargo planes and choppers and transport vehicles inside aircrafts without scripts , just drive in the tanks and jeeps inside the transport aircraft and drive them to another island or airdrop the stuff from the aircraft in parachutes okay and maybe make so that you can't survive a nuke blast when sitting inside a parachute

well that was all that i wanted to see for ofp2

[Fork122 0]

and the ability to have awacs planes with easy ingame trigger script or initline scripts so that you can set how much it can detect and if the enemy should attack it and flyinheight and stuff like that...

Anyone ever played Homeworld 2? It's an RTS that's futuristic and in space, but anyways there's a mode where you hit spacebar and you see the scanners from everything, so it shows the whole map's layout, but then it shows all units inside your guys "Scanners".

So take for instance in OFP2 they did something like that, if someone was flying an airplane they could bring up their radar screen, and then from there see the whole map, with areas that are currently visible due to not only their scanners but every friendly plane in the air at that moment. So fighters and bombers could have radar, and AWACs could have even more powerful radar. And to not make it impossible to not be detected if you were under a certain altitude the radar wouldn't pick you up.

It's kinda hard to describe, I'm hoping at least someone else has played the game

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

and the ability to have awacs planes with easy ingame trigger script or initline scripts so that you can set how much it can detect and if the enemy should attack it and flyinheight and stuff like that...

Anyone ever played Homeworld 2?  It's an RTS that's futuristic and in space, but anyways there's a mode where you hit spacebar and you see the scanners from everything, so it shows the whole map's layout, but then it shows all units inside your guys "Scanners".

So take for instance in OFP2 they did something like that, if someone was flying an airplane they could bring up their radar screen, and then from there see the whole map, with areas that are currently visible due to not only their scanners but every friendly plane in the air at that moment.  So fighters and bombers could have radar, and AWACs could have even more powerful radar.  And to not make it impossible to not be detected if you were under a certain altitude the radar wouldn't pick you up.

It's kinda hard to describe, I'm hoping at least someone else has played the game  

Essentially you are describing JTIDS and JSTARS

I'm not to sure it'd work to well in game.  It'd make target designation a bit one sided.  I cant think of a non US/NATO alternative to balance it out.

[Radnik 18]

...hmm,

..what about when gunner fires a TOW missile he can guid it to target like with "W", "E", "D", "S" keys from first person on missile all the way to the target like through optic wire,

..so when target is destroied cammera should back normal to gunner position...

[Friedchiken 0]

that gunner targeting idea sounds good.

I think the ofp2 should prevent the pilot from utilizing gunner specific target systems anyways, so that the gunner becomes a more important job.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

Both comanche and Mi28 Havoc we released have fully functional HUD's, art horizon, speed indicator, comapss, altitude indicator, both barometric and radar, incoming missile warning in the HUD, the havoc even has a missile indicator that tells you from which side of the chopper the next missile will be fired.

[Jinef 2]

I think that all aircraft in OFP should be orientated towards transport or CAS. Air to Air is just ridiculous in current environment and it won't be much better in OFP2.

On helicopter controls - why not have easy and veteran flight modes.

Easy - like now.

Veteran -

No easy radar.

Sensitive controls.

Weapon systems controlled by gunner.

Realistic radar and sensors.

Malunctions and more vulnerable to fire with system failures.

Aerodynamics - Vortex, Autorotations, Translational lift, Ground effect etc.

Countermeasures and electronic warfare systems.

Slingloads to lift vehicles and equipment.

Ability to play as crewmembers -

E.g.

UH-60 =

Pilot

Co Pilot

Flight Engineer (Side Gunner)

Loadmaster (Second Gunner)

AH-64 =

Pilot

Co Pilot/Gunner

The results will be fun 'choppers' on easy mode, and useful rotary wing aircraft on veteran that can be used more proficiently by a good pilot and is more survivable.

I am not expecting OFP2 to include this, however I am expecting that this should be possible for modders. Dual control, virtual cockpits and the advanced sensors should be possible, atm helicopters are pretty much as Baron described, 2 buttons and a start key.

[shadow 6]

HUDs and instruments are all fine and that, but I'd like to see IHADSS. Integrated Helmet And Display Sight System. The Apache has a "mini-HUD" on a monocle attached to the helmet. This monocle is a mini see-through screen giving the pilot all the necesarry info a HUD does, but the difference is that you get the info regardless of what direction you are looking instead of a static HUD "attached" to your front window.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]The 'CS idiot' would crash the chopper if the controls consisted of two buttons, stop and start. The best solution is to make the piloting at least semi-realistic, so that you only get in vehicles with people you trust.

I've mentioned this before.

If you've ever played a game called "RC Helicopter Indoor Adventure" You'll know a decent flight model for a helicopter that allows you to actually take advantage of a helo's actual maneuverability is plausible without making it too difficult.

As it stands in OFP I think the helicopters are too stiff and easy to target. No jinking sideways illustrates that point.

A good example of a shitty helo simulation that tries to be realistic is desert combat, you spend more time keeping your helicopter from flipping over than anything else. With the RC chopper game you have that extended realism but with the option to auto stabilize so your not rabidly pressing "Q" and "E" as your chopper bobs from side to side like a boat.

[-=BT=- Matty R 0]

what about certain roles.. e,g like if you are a pilot you can only fly the air vehcials, tankers can only drive tanks then it would stop people just doing what they want then... then you would get real cool games with proper team work then.