Participate in a study, part 2

[sotku 0]

Hi,

in the following you can find some early considerations based on the phase 1 interviews. I also included three further questions and I hope we can discuss them on the forum. If you find it more appropriate to contact me via e-mail that is also perfectly ok. Some of the phase 1 interviewees will still receive more detailed questions via mail.

I have deliberately used a lot of quotations to show that the motivation of my further questions rests on the notions expressed by the participants. I hope this approach can offer you some insights into the different ways people see the characteristics of OFP community.

Cheers,

- olli

Olli Sotamaa, Researcher

olli.sotamaa@uta.fi

Game Research Lab

University of Tampere, Finland

http://www.uta.fi/hyper/gamelab/

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The flexible game architecture that offers various possibilities for innovative modders is highlighted as one significant reason for choosing Operation Flashpoint among other games.

“There is great diversity in OFP mods - the open design and game scheme allows people to make WWI era addons as well as "GTA-style" mods, add units and scenarios from almost any battlefield of 20th and 21st century.â€

“Because of the flexibility of the OFP game engine the themes can range from the wars of Napoleon to Star Wars.â€

In my opinion, the amount of high level add-ons and mods is truly impressive. The clear difference to many other enthusiastically modded games is the respectful attitude on the original game. If you look at games like e.g. Quake III Arena or Half-life the mods form a real intertextual carneval. Not only are characters ranging from The Simpsons to The Matrix brought into the game but the most extreme total conversions can turn the game into a football match or a rally challenge. Approaches like this seem very rare among OFP mods.

In relation to this, it is clear that the celebrated “realism†of the original game - because of which many players seem to like it - has its influence on the add-ons and mods.

“I always dreamed of a game in which I would be able to fight in realistic way and experience the war like it probably appears. And of course, I also dreamed of a game that would allow me to play it "in my way".â€

“OFP is, in my opinion, the first real genuine tactical sim, and to this day remains the only fully successful one.â€

Also the involvement of professionals from various fields can partly explain the thematic concentration.

“The other major factor is the significant involvement of experienced military personnel from many countries. You have Russian soldiers advising the designing of graphical and

coding details of Soviet-era armor, US ex-special forces people contributing to special ops addons, and so on.â€

So, although I have some early explanations and a pretty good hunch about the reasons I’m waiting for your answers and discussion on the following question:

***************

QUESTION 1: I would like to hear your opinions on whether the modders’ concentration on military themes is in fact the reason for the uniqueness of OFP modding scene and therefore an important strength or would it make sense to use the flexible engine for even more extreme conversions in the future (e.g. something like Legawarz)?

***************

The participants of the study identified an impressive number of different earlier hobbies and skills related to modding. It seems clear that the motivations behind mod making can vary a lot but I suggest a few different approaches or sub-groupings can be identified. I prefer here an action-based taxonomy (hacking, researching etc.) instead of an identity-based (hacker, researcher etc.) since I suggest a single modder can hold several of these standpoints simultaneously.

a) Hacking

“It was probably the pure interest in the way Flashpoint “worksâ€. [---] I’ve always been interested in studying how different things work, already as a kid I had to take all the toys to pieces. [---] Especially in the early days of OFP it was interesting since everything was unknown and a big part of the process was to discover the ways to implement the ideas.â€

This is somewhat obvious but still important. In a way modding is a game cultural manifestation of the “hacker legacyâ€. It is no coincidence that the first modern computer game SpaceWar (1962) and its various modifications were developed by the first generation hackers.

b) Researching

“It depends on the age, I think. Some products are quite mature, made by technicians and/or soldiers (or military fans) who spend more time gathering information sources than actually building addons and missions.â€

If hackers enthusiastically examine the details of the code, researchers want to clarify profoundly the background and the details of the subject matter. In case of OFP this can mean for example a piece of historical information or a clear picture of the object to be modeled.

c) Artistic motivations

“The best thing in modding is the experience of creation, it’s like painting a picture.â€

Artistic approach means using a game as a medium of expression. The motivation can vary from purely aesthetic to a more political one.

d) Playing

“I enjoyed the game, then got into internet community and tried to develop my own things, because the game seemed to be kinda "incomplete" or I had idea I desperately needed to put working into game â€

“Also repairing â€errors†has come in especially in context of OFP and a desire to make the game more of that kind I would like it to be, for example in relation to realism and the level of difficulty.â€

I guess, on a very general level almost any modder can belong into this category. On the other hand, a good amount of participants feel that the time spent on playing has decreased after they started making mods. My idea here is that one important motivation is based on the challenge whether one is able to improve the gaming experience himself.

e) Socializing

“Well, it is great hobby in which I have met some really nice people. I have found some new friends, some from my country, some from abroad. I enjoy the feeling that I made something for others, they appreciate it and enjoy the stuff.â€

“In brief I would say that the most enjoyable part of modding has been the co-operation and the creation of ideas with other team members and the enthusiasm to work towards a shared goal.â€

This one is closely related to the idea of having or not having a “community†(More of this in question 3). The larger the mod project the clearer it is that some sort of social skills are needed. My idea here is that for some people visiting the forums and participating the mod projects is primarily a way to find other similar minded people and make friends.

***************

QUESTION 2: I would like to hear if this grouping makes sense to you. Maybe there are some other categories I have not noticed. Or maybe some categories (especially “playingâ€) are too loose and have to be reformulated.

***************

Based on the interview data and my observations on the forums and websites it seems that the OFP modder community is quite mature and peaceful (at least in relation to modders of some other games). However, every now and then some things seem to raise tension and disagreement. I have tried to analyse the central tensions as power struggles between different actors.

a) Modders vs. gamers

“I think the only thing that really causes friction is the continual argument between modders and the less grateful users who can't mod. The one about how modders do this for free in their spare time on the one side, and the other side which says that they are 'teasing people' or whatever else. I think the modders have the upper hand here though. they really don't get paid for this, and I think not enough people understand that.â€

b) Open-source approach vs. encrypting the projects

“The friction usually comes where one of the lone editors either mocks the mods' work, or copies it with a new texture and claims it as his own, or borrows and pilfers it and fails to give credit. Insulting someone's hours spent making something to give away free, or outright stealing it, or insinuating that they stole it, has caused many threads to be lock and folks banned for this immaturity. This also demoralizes the mods, to the point

that they decide to no longer create content, or to drop out of the game.â€

“A more open nature, where nobody gets angry when someone else re-uses your work, would greatly improve quantity and quality of add-ons. The process would end up in a natural selection of work, where only the best survive.â€

c) Hobby vs. employment

“There are two "categories" of modders in the community (that I perceive at least.) 1. Those who do it for fun/to better the game/to add content/to enjoy themselves. 2. Those who do it for personal gain/"popularity"/status.â€

“There are definitely cliques. The friction, to me, is between those who mod because they like to mod and those who mod to be the best at modding. The latter are probably in it for potential employment.â€

***************

QUESTION 3: Do you consider these differences in opinion actually exist? Do they help to give a picture of the different positions one can adopt among OFP fans or should I consider some other variables? Can you identify yourself in relation to these positions?

***************

[drow 0]

Quote[/b] ]“There is great diversity in OFP mods - the open design and game scheme allows people to make WWI era addons as well as "GTA-style" mods, add units and scenarios from almost any battlefield of 20th and 21st century.â€

This isnt true, you can only do certain things with ofp, i for one think that ofp is perfect for Vietnam simulation.

(((EDIT - besides the "no tunnels" thing... )))

You can not properly simulate WW1, the Civil War, the Zulu wars, etc. etc. battles that had thousands of people in them you cannot recreate in ofp.

But theres lots of other great things about OFP, just look around the community!  

[bmgarcangel 0]

lol

I don't know if I agree at all with you about WWI stuff. I've became very good over the past few months at charging with units running accross and attacking the enemy positions...........WWI type style stuff (though I haven't released any of the missions) so I have to disagree with you totally there. Not to mention, WWI can be really, really made into a ofp mod....just takes work, but if you're a good ass mission editor, you'll always find a way.

Key three words in the ofp community my friend - Nothing is Impossible

Peace Bro

~Bmg

[drow 0]

but everyone knows you cant have a thousand man army against another equally strong army in ofp,,, even if u got the fog on ( 0 setfog 1000! ) and youre playing on the desert island... not everything is possible, thats the art of making games, finding that happy place between realism, gameplay, and technology.

[somebloke 0]

Well the game does have a limit of 63 groups per side, which is 756 troops per side. By flashpoint standards, thats a hell of alot of troops.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

but everyone knows you cant have a thousand man army against another equally strong army in ofp,,, even if u got the fog on ( 0 setfog 1000! ) and youre playing on the desert island... not everything is possible, thats the art of making games, finding that happy place between realism, gameplay, and technology.

Not really but you can to a certain extent simulate bigger battles with clever scripting. I do agree with the researcher and the participants that ofp offers multitude like no other game.

Period.

[raedor 8]

Well the game does have a limit of 63 groups per side, which is 756 troops per side. By flashpoint standards, thats a hell of alot of troops.

no. you missed the soldier-addon of kriegerdaemon of mapfact (that was years ago).

Quote[/b] ]Mit dem Soldiers-Addon ist es jetzt möglich, dreimal so viele Gegner zu erstellen, wie bisher. Statt der maximal 756 Gegner in 63 Gruppen sind damit 2268 (!) Gegner in 189 Gruppen möglich.

with that you can "make" 2268 enemys in 189 groups.

[drow 0]

Well the game does have a limit of 63 groups per side, which is 756 troops per side. By flashpoint standards, thats a hell of alot of troops.

no. you missed the soldier-addon of kriegerdaemon of mapfact (that was years ago).

Quote[/b] ]Mit dem Soldiers-Addon ist es jetzt möglich, dreimal so viele Gegner zu erstellen, wie bisher. Statt der maximal 756 Gegner in 63 Gruppen sind damit 2268 (!) Gegner in 189 Gruppen möglich.

with that you can "make" 2268 enemys in 189 groups.  

maybe so, but what are u running your OFP on?

a mega computer the size of your house?

theres no way you can have a battle with even 100 guys without lagg... or close to that anyways.

[raedor 8]

Well the game does have a limit of 63 groups per side, which is 756 troops per side. By flashpoint standards, thats a hell of alot of troops.

no. you missed the soldier-addon of kriegerdaemon of mapfact (that was years ago).

Quote[/b] ]Mit dem Soldiers-Addon ist es jetzt möglich, dreimal so viele Gegner zu erstellen, wie bisher. Statt der maximal 756 Gegner in 63 Gruppen sind damit 2268 (!) Gegner in 189 Gruppen möglich.

with that you can "make" 2268 enemys in 189 groups.

maybe so, but what are u running your OFP on?

a mega computer the size of your house?

theres no way you can have a battle with even 100 guys without lagg... or close to that anyways.

no, just wanted to show that this is no longer a ofp limit

and when you are mission maker you know that you often have groups with 1 or 2 units (i.e. a suppot truck); then you have your 64 groups veeery fast.

[bmgarcangel 0]

Drow, i can battle 400 East Soldiers on the desert island without any fog at all.....with no lag  

Now the war that i'm going to portray, the Korean War, will be something that has never been done in OFP.  I will try and make it as realistic as possible, all the way to the very limit of the ofp engine but still try to reduce the lag.  With others that we pick up and drop off along the way to the end of the journey, TFW:CIK will break many grounds just watch and wait.  I bet ya too we could be one of the most realistic mods in the end considering the story of the Korean War I hardly want to edit.  

Bayonets will be one of our major breakthroughs. Even though other mods like PUKF has already created bayonets, Bayonets are the key to the Korean War....if you didn't have them when fighting against the enemy you were in big trouble because basically the Korean War was all about Close Quarter battles, fighting thousands of enemies off.

Back to topic now, if you think about it guys.....ofp has one of the biggest modding communities ever and one of the most active.  We can do so many god damned things that other mods for other computer games can't do.  We can even recreate the civil war, Revolutionary war, and other wars.  If you don't believe me talk to that one guy who has already recreate it with new anim for reloading and all this other shit to make it awesome as hell......

Like i said before, never say WWI, Civil War, or Revolutionary War is impossible for it is possible, you just have to have hte Brains to deal with it and get through the hard times eventually ending up in a place never before dreamed of in the minds of many of the OFP:CWC and OFP:RES Players.

~Bmg

[Commando84 0]

Yeah Ofp is much better game than half-life or unreal tournament or even battle field 1942, even though drivable aircraft carriers and big battle ships are on my wish list

there's like almost no limits in ofp and it makes everything so great but it makes you have to use the head more and sometimes test the mission over and over again yourself or with other people and its testing the missions togheter with other people that makes ofp so great, and all the user made addons and island addons are like candy to everyone who wants more guns to mission editors who wants new stuff to play around with in the editor and create new kind of missions or modified existing missions to suit your needs

soldiers to soldiers fighting, tanks and other ground vehicles + choppers and aircrafts and boats and ships, everything combined makes for a very diverse and great game experience.

i used to play counter-strike before i played ofp and it got so boring because you stood in corner 1, 2 or 3 and waited for the enemy to come and kill you or you killed them. Don't get me wrong here i liked C.S alot in its early devopment days when new stuff came almost every day but now its so dull and stiff like a stone and you can't do so much with it and watching it is fun for 10 mins then you get bored because its the same deal over and over again..

Compare that with ofp where new stuff comes everyday and hot screenshots to feast your eyes on everyday and download links to new addons and missions, or even creating your own single or mpmissions and then go and play it after 1 min of creating or 1 month of creating. Its all up to you and it can have everything from not so good graphics to unbelievable graphics that makes your head spinn

the original islands in ofp and its expansion pack was big when they came and new players are always faschinated by their size and new islands are made by the community and addons and missions and mods ensure that there is always something more to learn or explore ingame or play around with or enhance both graphics, and effects and sounds ect.

there are no small rooms with limited space to explore but instead large islands that you can add more objects and stuff to or play with them as they are and try new locations , new conditions and new settings. All that and more that i can't come up with makes ofp such a joy to play and i try to encourage every new friend i meet that likes comp. games to give ofp a try. Some like it some don't it depends on how muc you like the freedome and so

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (raedor @ June 30 2004,23:49)

Quote (somebloke @ June 30 2004,23:39)

Well the game does have a limit of 63 groups per side, which is 756 troops per side. By flashpoint standards, thats a hell of alot of troops.

no. you missed the soldier-addon of kriegerdaemon of mapfact (that was years ago).Quote  

Mit dem Soldiers-Addon ist es jetzt möglich, dreimal so viele Gegner zu erstellen, wie bisher. Statt der maximal 756 Gegner in 63 Gruppen sind damit 2268 (!) Gegner in 189 Gruppen möglich.

with that you can "make" 2268 enemys in 189 groups.  

maybe so, but what are u running your OFP on?

a mega computer the size of your house?

theres no way you can have a battle with even 100 guys without lagg... or close to that anyways.

It doesn't help these days with the focus of mods generally being favored towards making OFP have the same visual quality as games that aren't as expansive. Such as Raven Shield. Etc.

I can get a pretty good battle going on with my new computer using stock units, however I generally avoid using newer addons because I dislike the increase in system requirements for less units. Furthermore. I still use my old PC to network with and I won't use addons in my missions that will run ok on my new pc but will lag out my old one if I'm making a big mission.

OFP is capable of so much more than those other more limited tactical FPS games. I really haven't kept up with new addons for a long time now. FDF did a fairly good job keeping their units closer to the stock ones, and thus I'll use those as a comprimise because that mod offers so much more than regular OFP.

Quote[/b] ]with that you can "make" 2268 enemys in 189 groups.

I seriously doubt you will be able to reach the limit of entities already built into OFP let alone that one using certain addons for quite a long time. In my opinion the development of most addons now is keeping OFP within a certain performance envelope regardless of how new and fast your pc gets. Which if you haven't guessed. Sucks, unless you sit there taking screenshots of addons from every angle whilst teabagging your monitor and inspecting the stitching and buttons on someone's jacket.

I don't really bother with addons anymore as a result of this.