PMC_Euro 25km Terrain + Campaign

[SandVoss 0]

This idea looks great, and the campaign sounds like a good idea. Just theres one thing, please dont use american forces! If its going to be set in Europe, with the Russians invading, I think its best to use European forces, and not american forces. What Im suggesting is that you use several different European forces from countries such as Germany, France, The Netherlands, and Britain. They would be the most likely countries to deal with any war in Europe. You could use addons from these countries in the campaign, making it a ton more interesting, and it makes it a real 'European Campaign'.

Personally, im a bit sick of always having to use US troops in games, and also considering recent happenings...

[sputnik monroe 102]

Personally I'd like to see a Fulda Gap type scenario. Massive WWIII tank battles. That would leave room for other NATO nations to be in the campaign also.

The only thing though is the majority of people hate Americans. So you might want to leave them out of the campaign if you would like more people to play it. That or make it where you kill Americans that always makes people happy, (not me I don't hate America, i'm just saying).

Bottom line though, make the campaign how ever you want, it is your campaign after all. If it's American I'll definitly play it. I've been waiting for a good American Campaign for a while now. The 1985 Campaign was good, but I'd love to play a more realistic mainland Europe Fulda gap massive tank battles, land war type campaign. Hmmm am I starting to repeat my self?

Any how keep up the good work it's looking very promising.

[SandVoss 0]

What about a Cold-War type tank battle? Modern tanks are soooo much cooler. And theres not that many WWII mods out there anyway with European forces. So...

[Snake Man 407]

There is now one new mission in the campaign and maybe one or two more in planned. I did small invasion beach clear mission for Rangers and added the new CoC Cruise Missiles to the SEAL missions. Also other missions will get heavy CoC UA usage after I "reorder" the invasion forces.

The island in the latest alpha feels quite empty, however its not a lagfest like usual islands with lot of vegetation. What would be the balance here, more densely populated terrain or lagless gameplay with somewhat empty areas?

I personally feel and it was our goal that this island WILL have some large empty areas, for example to some huge tank battles or such. But surely we must make the nearby areas of cities etc more interesting.

Also if anyone noticed I left out the res/nogova bushes because I've heard things about them that AI will see through them etc. To leave them out, good or bad idea?

The Agent Smith released the great industrial pack v3.0 which I've been looking for possible use. I suddenly wanted to build some oil refinery and pipeline objectives in the island, but then again... is this poor agricultural small town island or more high tech one with new goodies like oil wells and such?

I'm very slowly working on a update, no dates or list of fixes yet.

[bonko the sane 2]

i agree, nogova bushes look nicer but IMO they are the reason i die 80% of the time, same with the bloody "transparent" tents

Plz dont use them.

Im really looking forward for further updates.

[MSpencer 0]

Also please get rid of the 300 mile marches to an objective. I mean even the helicopter insertions are miles away...

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I think the lack of lag is this island's best feature... I mean, everybody is making more and more complex islands which don't allow to have a too good viewing distance without stuttering lag (especially those based on BAS-Tonal stuff)... to have such a great areal is great without lag! Maybe two islands should be made, one with lots of stuff, and a simpler, even-less-laggy island (practically a more perfected version of the current island).

[privateguba 0]

Heya Snake.  

You have a great Island and campaign pack there. Please don't give up on perfecting it. It's already very enjoyable, here are only a few suggestions:

The Island:

First: What a GREAT island! I can't believe it's 25x25, with a good level of detail, plenty of forrests and vegetation, and still I can play your campaign at 3000m viewdistance at around 30fps! Amazing!  

The only suggestions I can make are:

Please, try to keep the great performance. If you can keep the lag down, even if I have to lower the VD to 2000m, but still keep around 30fps in missions, I don't mind if its comparatively emptier than normal smaller islands. A sugestion would be to use more farm plantation textures. Hopefully they are not laggy, I hope they have the same performance hit as the normal grass textures. This would make the great empty plains more realistic and easier to accept, and in tune with some European terrain. A few more shrubs here and there, a few farm houses and barns, a few isolated wood cottages, a few hunting outposts (those elevated wooden ones you used on the smallville island) and a great European farmland setting would be done. Also, add a few more 'earth track' roads connecting some farms.

Some of the mountains and hills that have no trees, you could make them with rock textures, at least the upper half. Also, put a few isolated rocks, and a few 'Stonehengelike' formations here and there.

VERY IMPORTANT: => Don't use those coblestone roads, unless inside the cities. They make the cars go very slow (no more than 50km/h) and that's the last thing we need in an island of this size. Use the normal Nogova asfalt roads, they're also the best for avoiding AI crashes because they are wider.

Make the airport runway bigger. An Island of this size makes more realistic the presence of a bigger airbase that could receive the bigger cargo airplanes and bombers. At least 2.5km of lenght, even if in OFP the bigger planes seem to have STOL capabilities. Also try to make it isolated like those NATO bases in Germany. It shouldn't be possible to get a good look inside it from any city or field or hill around it, up to a viewdistance of at least 2000m. Have a fence all around it, with guard posts at regular intervals, forrests around it, a bigger guard post on top of a hill (maybe with a radar station) if there's a hill near it, etc. Also remember not to put any hangar or control tower right beside the runway or even at least 100 meters near it. (You seem to already know this, but it's a very common error in some otherwise great islands I've seen, so I better play it safe and remember that). Put a military base inside the airport perimeter but about 1 km away from the main airport buidings and hangars, to avoid clutering and lag, and also to have a realistic protection for the airbase nearby. This kind of airbase would be of itself a realistic cause for the soviet invasion of the island, for the strategical value of it. It would be an important base for their big bombers to attack the USN aircraft carrier groups in the case of WW3, for example.

Build a bigger city at the coast or an emptier spot along the river bank. This avoids lag and gives a realistic main city. You could make a big 'habitation' capital near the river bank and/or a big Harbour/Industrial city at the coast. If you consider real life big cities, you'll see that they usually don't have a big forrest nearby, and they are usually built at the coasts or near big rivers or lakes, this is a great excuse to build them near the coast and away from bigger forrest clumps, avoiding lag. Have the city be surrounded by a few farmland fields and houses and smaller hills and vegetation clumps, maybe a very small forrest clump, for more realism and cover for aproaching infantry.

I have to repeat that this is a great island, and perfectly realistic if you consider some of the European landscape. It's become my favorite editor island. It's incredible that it probably has much more objects than normal BIS style islands, but runs much better. It's a pity that clutter causes so much lag in OFP, the great performance of your island is the biggest proof of that.

The campaign:

I'm only on the first BAS units mission so far (the one to destroy the fuel base). At first, on the SEAL missions, I thought the long walks were boring. However, as I discovered that I could play at 3000m, it became almost a whole new game. Using the binocs to spot patrols and avoid them, much easier terrain navigation using far away cities, forrests and hills to triangulate my position, choosing carefully my routes and my aproach to the targets... Those SEAL missions reminded me of my first few months playing OFP, when the original islands still seemed huge and the freedom of aproach was unparaled by any other game. You give us a big 'playground' that may seem deceptively empty...

In the SEAL missions, there are many cities with juicy opportunity targets: fuel and ammo trucks, BRDM's, etc. I couldn't help but think of making a little bigger contribution to the preparations for the NATO counterattack. Well, in the last SEAL mission I couldn't resist and disobeyed the ROE. I carefully aproached a town that had many such targets and sucefully attacked it. However, once I got rid of the city troops and the patrol nearby, I had to aproach the city from the forrest from which I made the attack, to get the explosives to destroy the trucks etc. Well, as I was destroying the last truck, one of my soldiers spotted an enemy patrol. 'No problem', I thought, 'get rid of them and run to the forrest'.   Well, as we were finishing the last of this group another came from another direction. And another came from the other side. And another, with a BMP. And yet one more with a BMP. And- well you get the idea, you were the one that made the mission like that. Well, in the end I managed to reach to the forrest, injured, with only one soldier left, also injured.    And I don't think I would have made it if your russian troops didn't use the HD weapons... What can I say but that this is great mission making.  

Ok, so far the few things to notice are:

VERY IMPORTANT: =>In some missions you should have given us some Anti-Armour weapons and/or satchel charges. Like in the one to destroy the Shilkas. In fact I think the SEAL troops would get to choose the weapons for such a dangerous mission. The same thing goes for this first BAS mission I'm playing right now. No satchel charges, no LAWs. It makes destroying the fuel trucks much more dangerous than it should be, as I have to aproach the dead soldiers or ammo boxes, scavenge explosives or AT rockets from them and only then blow up the trucks. I don't think this is realistic, it's extremely dangerous with precious seconds lost in the proccess. I've been surrounded by reaction forces repeatedly because of this. I don't think this is realistic, real troops wouldn't want to risk so many seconds, even minutes sometimes, because of poor weapon selection. So, give us a big weapon selection to choose from, please.

Suggestions:

I agree with whoever said to add traffic along the roads. Put one Ural with a few troops,  one UAZ and one BRDM also with troops in long, circular routes around the big mission area, in different roads and/or directions from each one, sometimes reversing directions. This way, it seems there are many of each, without adding too many more troops and keeping lag down. Also add one convoy with Fuel and Ammo Urals escorted by a BMP to add more 'risky temptation targets' in some missions instead of the BRDM or UAZ or Ural with troops.

Add Spetsnatz patrols with high skill (ability to see you from greater distances than normal patrols). Groups of 3 spetznats + 1 sniper. Have 2 of these spetnatz patrols: One near one of the main targets (by random probability different each time we play the mission) and another in a route patrolling the inside the forrests and big empty fields most likely to be used by the player for some nasty surprises. Also, no HD weapons for those Spetz. Have the spetsnatz carry satchel charges to further tempt the player to risk killing them and use the extra satchels to attack/ambush targets of opportunity.

Have one BMP along a big, circular patrol around the mission area.

Have one of the cities be a tank base instead of a truck base, both as a very risky target of opportunity as well as a big scare factor when attacking the main target and to make players think twice or tree times before attacking a target of opportunity. Have 4 T-72s or T-80s to avoid any unrealistic anti-tank Rambo-ing with scavenged RPG's. In these cities there would be, instead of the trucks plus the troops to guard them, there would be the tanks plus their crew outside them (if we plan to destroy them) plus a 4 spetsnatz group to guard them. Make the tanks locked to avoid turning the mission into a tank rush if the player chooses to attack them. Or, have the crews be inside the tanks after the first mission, as the crews would be warned of the possibility of attack from NATO spec-ops. In this case, it would be possible to use 1 AI T-80s to cut on Lag. When reacting to a player attack on the main targets, if the target is on top of a hill, have them patrol the area around the base of the hill along the main route the player would take to the next target.

Have some of the SEAL/BAS missions be during the night. In this case, give NVGs to the officer or leading soldier of the patrols . All spetznats/snipers should have NVGs.

Have a patrolling chopper in some missions. Especialy during the night, flying very slowly in long patrol routes with their searchlights on, for big ambiance. A MI-17 with a 9 man squad in one mission, a Hind with 4 spetsnatz in other, maybe a V-80 in yet another. The ones transporting troops would come in and unload their troops near the first target the player attacks. If there's no chopper patrolling the mission area have a probability of there being one rapid reaction force outside the mission area to come in and unload the troops as well.

Have a bad weather probability in at least one more mission. In one of the SEAL missions, the weather turned bad, it started to rain and my visibility fell to around 1500m. Have one of the missions happen with fog, visibility to 600m and some nefariously placed patrols, hehehe.

If you have the time and the patience: Keeps this campaign almost as it is, with only the weapons selection suggestion (Very Important) and chopper patrols and road traffic and keep it in the package. Then make a 'Deluxe' version, with the tanks, spetsnatz patrols, choppers, and more addon units for the folks with better hardware. For example:

The VITAPC pack, it's very popular, and would add better looking BMPs and BMDs and BTR-80's than the BIS ones, 1 AI ZSU-23 for AAA target and good quality russian spec-ops units.

The MTLB pack, also popular, for the SA-7 and ZSU-23(both on top of a MTLB or fixed gun emplacement) AAA units in the SEAL mission to destroy them, for example.

The BAS russian opfor pack, for the BRDM and UAZ with machineguns for the road patrols.

The DKM Tugunska also for AAA and Mi-28 Havoc for patrolling chopper.

The ORCS T-72, T-80 and T-90 tanks.

Footmunch's SU-27, Mig-23/27 for ambiance. For example, have a pair of SU-27 CAPatroling the whole island, making many passes over the mission area. Or a pair of MIG-27 or SU-25 to further defuse any temptation of stealing a tank or bullet-proof vehicle. Or parked/taking off from the airport when attacking it.

Footmunch's TU-22 bomber for ambiance at the airbase as well. One Tupolev 'Bear' and a B-52 for the US are also being made but I don't remember by whom.

Vit's Antonov 124 for airbase ambiance. Use an older version, the newest one is horribly laggy.

Some good looking russian normal infantry troops but with HD weapons. I think you made a great choice with those HD weapons. With the big empty spaces in the island, it gives better survival chances for the player. But the russian spec-ops troops should have normal weapons, IMO. ORCS has good looking normal army infantry, but I don't know if they have JAM HD mags compatibility.

COMBAT! APCs, MG Hummers and HEMMT trucks.

Some of the newer M1A2 or M60 addons (from SIG or INQ, can't really remember.)

DKM Comanche in a few missions instead of the Apache.

DKM ADATS for West missile AAA.

Some of the newer Apaches and Cobras (also can't remember who made them). The Cobras could take off from an stationary LSD.

Diesel's A-10 instead of the Apache in some missions(?). With the MTLB pack's SA-7, DKM's Tugunskas, Footmunch's SU-27 and Mig-23/27 it would make for some chalenging air missions to break the tension of the infantry missions, and your island has great performance for 3000m+ viewdistance.

Footmunch's F-15C/E or F-16 for ambiance or instead of the Apache in some missions.

For a more 'NATO alliance' feel in some missions:

German or British Tornado for ambiance or missions.

German troops (BWMOD) and armor and choppers in some missions instead of normal US infantry and armor and choppers. -or-

Frenchpoint troops and armor and choppers and planes in some missions...

This Island+Campaign pack is great. It's been giving me the same enjoyment as the FDF, CSLA2 and BAS Tonal packs. It's a diamond in the rough, it's already very enjoyable, and if you don't give up on it... wow. Keep up man, keep up!          

[hellfish6 7]

Nice suggestions, but please don't dig up old topics. This one is nearly 15 months old. If you've got comments that you want to direct to Snake Man, I suggest you PM him or ask a mod before you dig up an old topic.