Religion gone wrong

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Tenn. County Wants to Charge Homosexuals

Wed Mar 17, 1:37 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

DAYTON, Tenn. - The county that was the site of the Scopes "Monkey Trial" over the teaching of evolution is asking lawmakers to amend state law so the county can charge homosexuals with crimes against nature.

The Rhea County commissioners approved the request 8-0 Tuesday.

Commissioner J.C. Fugate, who introduced the measure, also asked the county attorney to find a way to enact an ordinance banning homosexuals from living in the county.

"We need to keep them out of here," Fugate said.

The vote was denounced by Matt Nevels, president of the Chattanooga chapter of Parents, Family and Friends of Lesbians and Gays.

"That is the most farfetched idea put forth by any kind of public official," Nevels said. "I'm outraged."

Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) struck down Texas' sodomy laws as a violation of adults' privacy.

Rhea County is one of the most conservative counties in Tennessee. It holds an annual festival commemorating the 1925 trial at which John T. Scopes was convicted of teaching evolution. The verdict was thrown out on a technicality. The trial became the subject of the play and movie "Inherit the Wind."

In 2002, a federal judge ruled unconstitutional the teaching of a Bible class in the public schools.

[SpecOp9 1]

pathetic

[toadlife 3]

All I ahve to say about that is LMAO!

The law, if passed will be struck down by the supreme court in an instant.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Welcome to Amerikkka. Population: us.

[toadlife 3]

Now I realize why Al Gore lost in his home state of Tennesee in the 2000 election.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Welcome to Amerikkka.

More like TenneSSSee.

[Pipski 0]

Duelling banjos at 10 o' clock. I recommend immediate retaliation - all other states should make it illegal to be a redneck fascist with the intellectual agility of a packet of crisps.

[shinRaiden 0]

We can have absolutely no tolerance for intolerance, we must be vigorously prejudiced against bigotry.

Hey, at least the county passed a non-binding resolution to the state legislature, which is the actual body authorized to enact legislation, and did so in a legally approved and public process. Members of the legislature have the right to recieve this petition along with any others from consitituents, and decide whether to sponsor the legislation.

That's a far cry from Washington state, where a Gay marraige authorization bill was deliberately bottled up to delay it until the early hours on a friday night/saturday morning when nobody would be watching. The County executive of the largest county was exposed by a leading gay rights activist as attempting to secretly set up trial cases to force legalization through the courts instead of through the normal public legislative process.

If they want to be reasonable and discuss the issue civily and publicly, fine. But if they continue to subvert the proper legal processes, they deserve all the same vitriole that they heap on GW for his alleged bigotry. When both sides accuse the other of this kind of back-door back-stabbing, there will be no negtiations, and that kind of hate-mongering actually creates more bigotry.

[toadlife 3]

Hey, at least the county passed a non-binding resolution to the state legislature, which is the actual body authorized to enact legislation, and did so in a legally approved and public process. Members of the legislature have the right to recieve this petition along with any others from consitituents, and decide whether to sponsor the legislation.

That's a far cry from Washington state, where a Gay marraige authorization bill was deliberately bottled up to delay it until the early hours on a friday night/saturday morning when nobody would be watching. The County executive of the largest county was exposed by a leading gay rights activist as attempting to secretly set up trial cases to force legalization through the courts instead of through the normal public legislative process.

If they want to be reasonable and discuss the issue civily and publicly, fine. But if they continue to subvert the proper legal processes, they deserve all the same vitriole that they heap on GW for his alleged bigotry. When both sides accuse the other of this kind of back-door back-stabbing, there will be no negtiations, and that kind of hate-mongering actually creates more bigotry.

What the hell does Washingston State's gay marriage situation have to do with the topic at hand? Do you agree with this proposed law?

[denoir 0]

I would have had some understanding if this was proposed 300 years ago, but today?  

If these people get what they want, it won't be any different than Taliban rule. Different religion, but same fundamentalism.

[Harnu 0]

Tennessee, now 10% easier to make fun of

[Gadger 0]

Quote[/b] ]Duelling banjos at 10 o' clock. I recommend immediate retaliation - all other states should make it illegal to be a redneck fascist with the intellectual agility of a packet of crisps.

lmao

[shinRaiden 0]

I didn't say boo about supporting it or not, all I said was that people are grumbling about this county's legal and public approach, vs other locale's subterfuge. The gov. of Oregon state has warned that state's counties in general that they should not follow Multnomoh (and another, I forget which) county's lead in arbitrarily handing out gay marraige licenses without the state dealing with the needed legislation.

Here, you have a case of a county requesting, not imposing a bigoted piece of legislation. And before anybody says anything further, I know what bigotry means. My ancestors were driven out of Missouri at gunpoint under an extermination order signed as an executive order by the govenor of that state in the late 1830's solely for their religion. All I ask is due process.

If you wish to be concerned about their bigotry, fine, that's a good thing. But where is the equal concern for the disregard of the legal process by those who want to change another legal process via as much subterfuge as possible?

[toadlife 3]

Here, you have a case of a county requesting, not imposing a bigoted piece of legislation. And before anybody says anything further, I know what bigotry means. My ancestors were driven out of Missouri at gunpoint under an extermination order signed as an executive order by the govenor of that state in the late 1830's solely for their religion. All I ask is due process.

Lemme guess - Mormon?

[shinRaiden 0]

Yup. If citizens or elected officials representing their citizens do not have the right to petition their goverment to address their grievences, that is an abrogation of freedom of speech.

The legislature is also perfectly within its bounds to pass a non-binding resolution of censure condemning this county for wasting its and the taxpayer's time.

Ideally, this would just sit in the legislator's inbasket until it falls into the trash can. Now if the county were to pass a resolution condemning the legislature's lack of action and 'alligence to satan' and call out the sheriff to evict gays from the county, the govenor is authorized to call out state forces as neccessary and with federal support the national guard and declare the county under martial law for sedition, as well they should.

When the US invaded Iraq, some cities passed resolutions condemning the invasion, and some passed resolutions supporting it, and much newspaper space was wasted bantering about the whole deal, as if non-binding resolutions representing the majority opinion of the constituency were really a priority matter of general public concern.

[toadlife 3]

Funny. Mormons (specifically the state of Utah) have a track record of railroading gays, and letting Mormons get away with Murder (and other horrible crimes) in the name of their religion.

edit:

Some links...

http://gayvoteutah.michaelaaron.com/thometz200211.htm

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/usa/utah/GLUD/to.file.complaint.against.judger

Edit However, it is conforting to know that Utah voters finally removed the judge mentioned in the above links - even if it took them 8 years to do it.

[shinRaiden 0]

I'm from Seattle, and I certainly don't speak for Utah, it has earned it's 'unique' reputation. Where there are religious or legal abuses, those are grounds for church disciplinary action. There is a major issue with naiveity among the people culturally of course. When I went with a group of students to Israel for four months in 2000, I was tasked as a group lookout/security. I spent far more time watching my group to make sure they didn't do something idiotic than I needed to to ensure our safety.

By and far, any negative comments you will find are from people who as former members claim that the church, not them has gone astray. They then seek to impose their personal beliefs on the private group via external means.

This is the same with the general gay marraige issue. I oppose the games being played in courts on grounds that they are deliberately avoiding a debate and democratic vote of the populace at large, and also I oppose the constitutional amendment, as that is targeted directly at one specific demographic, instead of a generally written inclusive law.

Elegibility for a marraige license is determined iirc by the state legislatures, and reciprocality of those licenses, along with international reciprocality is handled by Congress. The populace and elected officials have the obligation to recieve petitions and hear testimony, and enact legislation that is in legal harmony with the rest of relevant case law, as ultimately defined within the parameters of the consititution.

While I disagree with the content of the petition from this county, I am glad to see that they are following the proscribed legal process. Incidently, I also supported the tobacco industry's defense against the federal extortion attempts, as well as the anti-Microsoft litigation. Did I agree with the products and actions of those companies? Of course not, but the greater danger was the legal precedent that was sought to extort companies out of money soley for the money.

[denoir 0]

I fully understand your logic shinRaiden, but I'm not sure that it's that simple. With all respect to local autonomy there are common rules for the country as well. America is founded on a number of common ideological principles which the local entities are not allowed to break.

For instence if a local community decided that they do not want to pay federal taxes you could count on that the law would be deemed unconstitutional and removed by the federal government. Democracy in a local community does not operate in a void.

[shinRaiden 0]

Er, no disagreement there, the federal level of course supercedes local actions on national issues. Tennesse has no interest in Washington state school forestry trust accounts, and Washington equally has no relevancy concerning Tennesse educational standards. The reciprocality of marraige licenses issued by state licensing agencies as defined by current statue is obviously a federal issue, and should be debated locally, but legislated federally.

I thought I was saying that this county had not actually made any binding ordinance, but had only submitted a resolution/petition to the state legislature requesting that they do so. If the legislature were daft enough to consider and approve it, the attorney general of the state would be legally obliged to defend it in court, and a suit could and should be brought by any member of the state or even a state agency primarily on the grounds of freedoms of religion in speech, assembly, unlawful search and seizure, illegal suspension of habeas corpus, unlawful denial of due process, etc.

The county also erred by submitting this resolution to the state legislature. It is not the state's business in this matter, as if the the gay community were somehow guilty of crimes against humanity it would definitely be an issue for the Senate to discuss with the international community at large.

Specificly regarding this case however, there are many people with fundamentalist beliefs that maintain that the physical presence of practicing gays or their supporters is an immediate physical and spiritual liability, comparable to old interpretations of "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Rather than reach out and seek to save their souls through normal proselyzation means, they resort to these barbaric and un-christian-like eradication methods to avoid divine wrath. But in reference to Denoir's well argued positioning on the difficulties of fundamentalism, the sad thing is that there will continue to be so much evil bloodshed and tyranny in the name of religion.

BTW, there is a case here in Seattle where a Methodist minister(ess) who announced her status of lesbian, and demanded a church court to justify her position and force the church to change their beliefs/policies. 33 protesters were arrested for blocking the entrance to the parking lot in an effort to deny access to designated attendees. The adjacent school set up an Israeli-style fence and installed ~$10,000 worth of security equipment based on assumed security threats with out consulting with the church on planning. I have many friends and aquaintences gay and straight, and of many faiths. But where the rule of law is not upheld, anarchy rules and everybody suffers.

[shinRaiden 0]

Just went back to re-read the original article. I missed the part about them asking the county attorney to investigate creating a county ordinance to impose this. I'd really like to see what kind of creativity that conjurs up.

There's only two roads that they really could try. The first would be to dehumanize individuals who choose a gay lifestyle. Hitler tried that, and the US has a long history of overturned courtcases treating blacks as subhuman property. Who are they to determine who or what is human? The federal level again would deal with basic rights and liberties to humans designated as citizens and aliens within its territorial jurisdiction.

Option two is to declare those practicing or condoning gay lifestyles as an immediate threat to the life and liberty of the citizens of the region within their jurisdiciton. The spiritual impact on communities is not something the courts were established for or have jurisdiction over. That is to be left to the pastors of their congregations. If the natives are an immediate danger to the community's life and liberty, and the courts refuse to address their grievances, gather the wagons and move out. If you have no compassion or sorrow for those you presume to consign to hell, you'll end up being their next door neighbor. For a really long time.

Have you noticed that when people of presumed faith thump the pulpits, the good book is generally closed? If they'd open it a bit, they'd find that judgement and vengence and purging are reserved for G-d, and who are they to take matters into their own hands?

[toadlife 3]

Have you noticed that when people of presumed faith thump the pulpits, the good book is generally closed?

Yep! All that "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" stuff tends to get in the way of a good persecution.

Quote[/b] ]If they'd open it a bit, they'd find that judgement and vengence and purging are reserved for G-d, and who are they to take matters into their own hands?

Exactly - which makes me wonder why the vast majority of Christians are for capital punishment - but that's getting a bit off topic.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]DAYTON, Tenn. - The county that was the site of the Scopes "Monkey Trial" over the teaching of evolution is asking lawmakers to amend state law so the county can charge homosexuals with crimes against nature.

 The Rhea County commissioners approved the request 8-0 Tuesday.

Commissioner J.C. Fugate, who introduced the measure, also asked the county attorney to find a way to enact an ordinance banning homosexuals from living in the county.

"We need to keep them out of here," Fugate said.

Jesus fuck. I blame Bush for starting this up. Fascist bullshit.

I swear, the more things like this seem to get out of hand the more I think of that John Titor guy (pseudonym for a supposed time-traveling crackpot) who said sometime in 2008 or so, a war will break out between the U.S government and it's own population.

[ozanzac 0]

And America calls itself a democracy.

*Shakes head*

I bet the republicans had alot to do with this. I really hope that because of their all-round poor performance, that they get booted by the rational voters for an extremly long time from all forms of government.

[toadlife 3]

And America calls itself a democracy.

*Shakes head*

I bet the republicans had alot to do with this. I really hope that because of their all-round poor performance, that they get booted by the rational voters for an extremly long time from all forms of government.

One thing non-Americans just don't realize about the U.S. is that we are made of dozens of separate "mini-cultures" which all have slightly, and sometimes vastly different values. Traveling from across a few states (and in my state's case a few hundred miles) in the U.S. is almost akin to traveling from one country to another.

Don't read into this story and think that the entire U.S. wants to kick out gays from their cities. This is some hillbilly county in Tennessee where TBN gets the highest rating when sweeps week comes around.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans or the state of our democracy and everything to do with their little isolated bible culture. Hell, small-time politicians on such a local level are more likely to mention their business or church affiliations rather than any party affiliation when running for office.

Oh and another thing about Republicans and poor performance - didn't you notice the California recall thread here awhile back? The governor that was recalled wasn't Republican - he was replaced by one. Both sides of the isle have a propensity for screwing things up.

[ozanzac 0]

I see your point, and know what your saying about outsiders looking in.

But I dunno. Down here the Federal Government and especially the High Courts crack down hard on any decision that contradicts the freedom that a democracy should have, and usually reverses whatever outrageous decision that was made within a matter of days, especially if it's enough to cause public outcry.

There's also a unwritten rule that if a council or shire moves to make a by-law that is 'unreasonable' in the eyes of normal society, that funds allocated to projects within that 'local government' will be re-allocated, hence discouraging outrageous ideas by councillors from getting off the ground in local governments who get their money from the controlling State and Federal governments.

The system wouldn't be that much different in the US would it? But then again, idiocy has seemed to manage to reach it's way to the top in American politics, which is why I would say that the republicans might have something to do with this.