Us presidential election 2004

[Akira 0]

Everyone thinks their opinion is "the truth" and "correct". My definition of someone who is open minded to CONSIDER that their views may be incorrect, or at least not the best way to do things. Along those lines, if you are open minded, it makes sense not to resort to such virulent namecalling of those who disagree with you, because they may very well be more right than you are. Instead, you should only use reasoning and logic, based on sound information, to argue your point.

Anyway, using my definition, I don't think anyone in this thread is very open-minded.

So you have stated before. Interesting since I've never heard you consider that your position might be wrong....

Quote[/b] ]I was joking there akira , i know your stance very well

Very well. Carry on then. Damned election has me keyed up. Sorry.

Quote[/b] ]Why a war mongering American? Why not just say war monger?

I'm sorry. I thought the flag in my avatar was the US flag. I also thought we were in a US politics thread.

Quote[/b] ]That's democracy for you - at the start of the war a large majority of Americans supported the war. The individual opinion is of very little consequence.

Anyhow, if Bush wins, expect a lot worse. It will internationally be seen that the American people are pleased with Bush and support him. Unfair for about 50% of the population, but life's a bitch..

Fine and dandy for people in the Middle East, but I'm talking to people who frequent this forum and know my stance, not some generalized person.

Also, if people in Europe wish to lump me in with Bush-lovers (err....PRESIDENT that is) then I'll tell them I didn't vote for him. If they want to continue berating me for something I haven't done, then the can talk to the back of my head as I walk away. It makes them just as bad as the right-wingers labeling "Old Europe" and "cowards".

[Pathy 0]

Akira i just wish to clarify that i have seen nobody, including Europeans, claim you are a Bushite.

[billybob2002 0]

oops....

Quote[/b] ]

Trail Tales: Slashed GOP Tires

Tuesday, November 02, 2004

Election Day is finally here and now we're at the trail's end.

Slashed Tires in Milwaukee

About 30 rented cars and vans that were to be used in the Wisconsin Republican Party's get-out-the-vote effort had their tires slashed Tuesday morning, FOX News has learned, and the GOP condemned the act.

State Republican Party spokesman Chris Lato said the slashed tires "clearly were targeted sabotage" to hinder the party's work.

Milwaukee police said just after noon on Tuesday that they had a description of the suspect in the case. A private security guard reported a man running from the lot where the tires were slashed, according to Police Sgt. Ken Harris.

The guard reported seeing a white male, 18 to 25 years old, between 5-feet-6 and 5-feet-9 tall and about 170 pounds, wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and dark jeans, running from the Republican offices around 6:45 a.m., Harris said.

Milwaukee police detectives typically would not investigate a case of slashed tires, but were investigating this incident given the potential political overtones of the crime, according to Harris.

"Because there is a chance it might have been politically motivated, we are making every effort to bring this case to a swift conclusion," Harris said.

Lato said party volunteers offered their vehicles for party use, but he did not know whether all the damaged rental vehicles had been repaired.

"Does it slow us down? Yeah. It's not going to help," he said.

Lato said the party headquarters in Madison were vandalized overnight with graffiti — specifically with black spray paint reading "Illegitimate Democracy" twice across a large wall.

But Madison Police Department spokeswoman Emily Samson said nothing from the Republican headquarters address had been reported to her office since Oct. 22.

Meanwhile, Democratic Party spokesman Seth Bothelli condemned the actions of "overzealous supporters on both sides" that have gone beyond yard-sign vandalism. He said signs were stolen from a Democratic campaign office in Wausau.

Milwaukee police also reported a problem this morning where two people were blocking the exit of a parking lot, preventing Kerry supporters from leaving the lot and screaming and spitting on cars. Officers removed the disruptive people, but no arrests were made.

FOX News' William La Jeunesse contributed to this report.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why a war mongering American? Why not just say war monger?

I'm sorry. I thought the flag in my avatar was the US flag. I also thought we were in a US politics thread.

And just exactly is that supposed to mean? If you want to see a prime example of war mongering look at WW2, look at WW1, and look at the Civil war.....I do not accept having my country and my flag tarnished with your words of "wisdom" that our country is filled with war mongering Americans that risked their lives to establish a government and free the oppressed.

[Akira 0]

Akira i just wish to clarify that i have seen nobody, including Europeans, claim you are a Bushite.

Oh I know. I was just refering to the generalized hardship non-Bushite's will have to put up with if Bush wins (in Denoirs post).

Real World that is, where you can be killed for being an American regardless what your beliefs are.

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]I would like to hear more conservative views on this thread

Fact is, this thread is mainly frequented by Europeans, who are way more liberal, by and large, than most Americans. If you look, there are some more conservative (or I guess just less-liberal) ppl posting here. But you aren't going to get a nice balance, because the population here tilts far left.

One thing I've noticed is that when people only discuss their politics with people who agree with them, their views tend to get more and more extreme or inbred, and they start seeing the "other side" as more and more stupid or evil. This is true for all regions of the political plane. I can give a dozen examples if needed.

When people discuss things with those who disagree with them, then they generally start thinking "hey, this guy isn't that stupid/evil". Things get more civil and reasonable, and people start seeing their common ground more, and also start sharing things they don't like about their particular candidates/parties.

But this doesn't happen when there is, like 1 guy who believes A, vs 3 guys who believe B. In that case, it turns into sorta a bullying scenerio, where the 3 guys start hammering on the 1 guy, and they just egg each other on. This case becomes just like the first case. I think this thread falls into this catagory.

Just my observations as an avid political watcher.

[Akira 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:22)]

Quote[/b] ]Why a war mongering American? Why not just say war monger?

I'm sorry. I thought the flag in my avatar was the US flag. I also thought we were in a US politics thread.

And just exactly is that supposed to mean? If you want to see a prime example of war mongering look at WW2, look at WW1, and look at the Civil war.....I do not accept having my country and my flag tarnished with your words of "wisdom" that our country is filled with war mongering Americans that risked their lives to establish a government and free the oppressed.

It means you have no idea what I was talking about.

Civil War?

Last time I checked this was a free country, and I had a right to speak what I felt. How's that for "wisdom".

If you want to continue this I suggest you PM me.

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]So you have stated before. Interesting since I've never heard you consider that your position might be wrong....

You'll also notice that I didn't make an exception for myself when I said "everybody in this thread".

However, I do consider myself somewhat open-minded, because I can understand why many people would be against the Iraq War, for example. But in your mind, can you honestly think of why someone may support that war, WITHOUT using name calling or other insults?

(Edit) From what I've seen here, 90% of the people in this thread CAN'T do just that. It's like the only reason many can think of why someone would support the war is because they are brainwashed or stupid... Do you really, honestly believe that there is NOONE out there who could support such an action, and arrive at that conclusion using their own reasoning, so it seems right to them? Or is that reserved only for those who think the way you do?

Anyway, I hope that edit didn't muddle my point. I'd love to stay and chat, but I gotta go to class, and then lose my voting virginity!

[Pathy 0]

I can see why someone may have supported a war against Iraq on other reasons but the context of this is a war to improve US security. And i cannot fathom how anyone can see invading Iraq as improving US security.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

so just becasue this is a US politics page, you have to specificly insinuate that warmonger in this thread means war mongering american? Despite the fact that you are from Austin,TX..... An American yourself, which is living off the fruits of what the founding fathers and soldiers gave up their lives to fight for their existance? ......

Yes, I call that very patriotic and fills the heads of egotistical European ideals and views even more largly then whats happening in regard to US foreign policy.

[Acecombat 0]

@Gen Barron

And so far your views havent changed anything or brought anything new to the table now have they?

I agree there are less american here (maybe) and conservative ones at that too but weve had plenty of them argue their viewpoints here too and you know what IF someones right NO ONE not even a million people can over turn it by simply bashing him or whatever. If that someone is so special then he must not make himself look like an idiot by refusing to accept basic known facts about the issue and then he shouldnt argue in circle taking the issue away and replacing it with another and then arguing over its semantics as this is what most die hard polarized people do , i just saw it happen in HARDTALK on bbc that poor Hamas guy oh brother , i wonder who invited him ...    

[Bernadotte 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:11)]That offends me, you honestly haven't seen what war mongering is if you think Iraq and Afghanistan is an example.

Oh really?  Then perhaps you should tell us what you believe war mongering is.

Please name just one nation that has taken military action against other nations more often than the US during the past few decades.

[Acecombat 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:37)]so just becasue this is a US politics page, you have to specificly insinuate that warmonger in this thread means war mongering american? Despite the fact that you are from Austin,TX..... An American yourself, which is living off the fruits of what the founding fathers and soldiers gave up their lives to fight for their existance?   ......

Yes, I call that very patriotic and fills the heads of egotistical European ideals and views even more largly then whats happening in regard to US foreign policy.

A prime example of what i just explained in my point.

Thank you Cpt Bazikian

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]However, I do consider myself somewhat open-minded, because I can understand why many people would be against the Iraq War, for example. But in your mind, can you honestly think of why someone may support that war, WITHOUT using name calling or other insults?

I know the reasons they have, and I know the reasons they say they support it. And I think there reasoning is faulty. The difference between my logic and reasoning, and theirs is mine doesn't kill 100,000+.

I accept their reasons, though I think their reasons are wrong. Open-mindedness does not involve me having to explain that I am open-minded. If you don't think I'm open-minded oh well. Don't really care.

You have stated numerous times now how open-minded you are, and yet your actions fail to back it up. That's what I was saying. Nothing more nothing less.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

Interestesing how in the off-topic section on the BIS-forums, the off topic thread it's self goes off topic in many which ways

[Pathy 0]

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

maybe we should just close the thread and open it back up once we find out who wins?

[Pathy 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:37)]so just becasue this is a US politics page, you have to specificly insinuate that warmonger in this thread means war mongering american? Despite the fact that you are from Austin,TX..... An American yourself, which is living off the fruits of what the founding fathers and soldiers gave up their lives to fight for their existance?   ......

Yes, I call that very patriotic and fills the heads of egotistical European ideals and views even more largly then whats happening in regard to US foreign policy.

Ahh so critising the direction of your country is unpatriotic, and should be frowned upon? I see.....

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Bush got my vote.

[Pathy 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:47)]maybe we should just close the thread and open it back up once we find out who wins?

I take it you are saying that if Bush wins it will prove you right? If so, that would be a nice leap of logic.....

[Akira 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:37)]so just becasue this is a US politics page, you have to specificly insinuate that warmonger in this thread means war mongering american? Despite the fact that you are from Austin,TX..... An American yourself, which is living off the fruits of what the founding fathers and soldiers gave up their lives to fight for their existance? ......

Yes, I call that very patriotic and fills the heads of egotistical European ideals and views even more largly then whats happening in regard to US foreign policy.

What the hell are you prattling about?

Lemme break it down for you so you can understand.

1)I am American

ADD

2)This is an American politics page

ADD

3)I was replying in reference to a discussion about Bush and America starting a pre-emptive war.

MULTIPLY

4)The world's present view of America

Now you put all that together and you got "war-mongering American".

And before you start hiding behind the blanket of the founding fathers and patriotism, I suggest you do a little basic research as to what they stood for not only ideologically, but politically as well. Because it isn't anything Bush has done or said.

Oh, and btw, I consider your ridiculous "flag waving patriotism screw anyone that talks bad about the US" attitude a little more fulfilling to Europeans and Middle Easterners. It proves them right.

[Pathy 0]

Oh, and btw, I consider your ridiculous "flag waving patriotism screw anyone that talks bad about the US" attitude a little more fulfilling to Europeans and Middle Easterners. It proves them right.

Thats why i said earlier....its that kind of American attitude that leads to people flying planes into tall buildings. If all Americans could understand or could be bothered to understand other cultures the way Akira does you wouldnt have had a 9/11.

[denoir 0]

Fine and dandy for people in the Middle East, but I'm talking to people who frequent this forum and know my stance, not some generalized person.

Also, if people in Europe wish to lump me in with Bush-lovers (err....PRESIDENT that is) then I'll tell them I didn't vote for him. If they want to continue berating me for something I haven't done, then the can talk to the back of my head as I walk away. It makes them just as bad as the right-wingers labeling "Old Europe" and "cowards".

I'm not talking about people in this forum and with you specifically in mind.

What I'm saying is that that as a consequence of your (more or less) democratic vote, you'll have to equally take the responsibility of the choice that you make. Those that make the decisions bear the responsibility of that decision. Hence if the American people chooses Bush, the American people bears the responsibility of that choice.

This is of course a crude approximation, especially in such a close election, but somebody that only knows you are an American has a bigger chance of being right if he guesses you are a Bush supporter.  

Of course on the individual level such simple stereotyping fails. People however love to compartmentalize information and this includes classifying people based on minimal information. That's human nature. So what I'm saying is that if Bush wins, before you explain your personal view, you can expect to be lumped together with the majority of your country men that did support Bush. And that will suck for you who really opposed him.

This is of course assuming that Bush wins.

[Cpt. Bazikian-5thSFG- 0]

and I consider your squabble of how americans are war mongering savages even more ammusing and persuasive to those such people you mentioned..... It proves just how split up America truly is in terms of political and moral ideals.

[Acecombat 0]

@ Nov. 02 2004,22:47)]maybe we should just close the thread and open it back up once we find out who wins?

And what would that achieve?

Meanwhile...

Late Ruling Allows GOP to Challenge Ohio Voters

Quote[/b] ]By Henry Weinstein Times Staff Writer

CINCINNATI — Ruling early this morning, a divided federal court of appeals handed Republicans a potentially significant election day legal victory in this fiercely contested state, clearing the way for the party to challenge thousands of newly registered voters.

The decision by the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals could affect at least 23,000 newly registered Ohio residents whose qualifications Republicans have sought to challenge

Why are they blocking them?

Do they consider all of them to vote for Kerry?