Us presidential election 2004

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]Half-ban, no.

Well its the law. If republicans want to chanche the law in theyr favour, it definetly doesnt credit the reps.

[turms 0]

CNN Posted a less biased article about the MTV awards episode. Compare CNN article to the Drudgereport article and tell me is the drudgereport biased? I would recommend some other sites for paseing news in here, drudgereport and swiftliars are pure fantasy and propaganda.

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

Quote[/b] ]the same morons that get upset at a vietnam vet protesting a war are the same kinda morons that felt the way to win that HORRIBLE war was by body count alone...people wanna vote for dumbass (bush) because he's consistent...well, being consistently WRONG is a BAD thing. LOL...did yall read about this guy calling the war in Iraq a catastrophic success...lol..WTF is that!?

Your posts makes me think that you are a type of guy who would be dumb enough to punch a Bush supporter. I'm not at home right to post a link of that type of moron (it's a video).

Quote[/b] ]Their tactics are ones that the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior's grandfather would recognise they are the same style of attacks, denigration, lies and smears that his nazi party friends used against jews, blacks, gypsies, intelectuals, men and women of good consience and yes liberals that eventualy lead to the death camps

Walker you are smearing, too.

hey billybob..do you know what the term "catastrophic success" means? ...I didn't think so oh and what this about Bush saying we CAN'T win the war on terror..yeah thas the kind of leader I want and no I wouldn't punch someone just for being a bush supporter...u have no clue and maybe you should get to know people alittle more before u assume...but thas besides he point. I'm just supprised you actually responded to a post without spamming another news link

[denoir 0]

The drudge report is a pile of horse shit which should be obvious to anybody not suffering from grave analphabetism or an intellectual handicap. It makes Fox News look like the world's best source for unbiased quality information...

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

The drudge report is a pile of horse shit which should be obvious to anybody not suffering from grave analphabetism or an intellectual handicap. It makes Fox News look like the world's best source for unbiased quality information...

LMBAO

[FSPilot 0]

I'm voting for Bush (raise your hand if you didn't see that one coming).

Kerry's got some things going for him.  Yes I was actually considering voting for Kerry.  He's a vet (which is questionable according to some sources), he's a GA pilot, and he doesn't seem to want to slash the military budget to shreds like clinton did.  On the other hand he actively protested the war in vietnam, he's just about as two-faced as any politician nowadays, and he's a democrat which means we'd disagree on certain subjects.

Bush agrees with almost everything that I do, aside from the death penalty.

Please tell me.. I dont realy get your point about "prostesting against NAM". What was wrong about calling it dirty, inhumane and injustfull?

This country was blown to dust! No communist ever harmed that nation as much as the US military did

Nothing. But now he's going on about being a war hero. The same medals he threw at the white house in protest are now hanging in his office. I don't care if he was for the war or against it. The problem is that he seems to be only doing whats good for his political career, not what he really believes in.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]The drudge report is a pile of horse shit which should be obvious to anybody not suffering from grave analphabetism or an intellectual handicap. It makes Fox News look like the world's best source for unbiased quality information...

The Drudge Report is mostly a collection of links to news sites, including services such as BBC and Reuters. I suppose you could start calling BBC and Reuters "piles of shit", but I wouldn't really expect it...

Quote[/b] ]I would recommend some other sites for paseing news in here, drudgereport and swiftliars are pure fantasy and propaganda.

Have you ever provided any hard evidence that refutes any of SBVfT's main charges (That Kerry grossly exaggerated injuries and claims of heroism)? Merely calling something a "pure fantasy" doesn't change anything.

Quote[/b] ]Please tell me.. I dont realy get your point about "prostesting against NAM". What was wrong about calling it dirty, inhumane and injustfull?

Kerry admitted that he'd never actually seen one of the war crimes that he talked about, and he relied on the debunked "Winter Soldier" investigation for evidence to make his claims upon.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nothing.  But now he's going on about being a war hero.  The same medals he threw at the white house in protest are now hanging in his office.  I don't care if he was for the war or against it.  The problem is that he seems to be only doing whats good for his political career, not what he really believes in.

*he claims those were somebody elses. The "myth" was allowed to grow because he did not show he still had his. One day, to get union support during his run for the Senate, his medals magically reappeared.

Quote[/b] ]The drudge report is a pile of horse shit which should be obvious to anybody not suffering from grave analphabetism or an intellectual handicap. It makes Fox News look like the world's best source for unbiased quality information...

michealmoore.com .........

Quote[/b] ]

Posted a less biased article about the MTV awards episode. Compare CNN article to the Drudgereport article and tell me is the drudgereport biased? I would recommend some other sites for paseing news in here, drudgereport and swiftliars are pure fantasy and propaganda.

It is a suprise that Kerry daughters got booed.

From your CNN.com link:

Quote[/b] ]MTV cameras showed some audience members apparently giving the women a standing ovation, but the mixture of boos and cheers continued.

This is before even the Bush video was played or was announced it was going to be played..

Quote[/b] ]hey billybob..do you know what the term "catastrophic success" means? ...I didn't think so oh and what this about Bush saying we CAN'T win the war on terror..yeah thas the kind of leader I want   and no I wouldn't punch someone just for being a bush supporter...u have no clue and maybe you should get to know people alittle more before u assume...but thas besides he point. I'm just supprised you actually responded to a post without spamming another news link  

Here is your link:

http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/kerry_supporter_arrested.WMV

Kill Kill Kill Kill Kill

[red oct 2]

Quote[/b] ]It is a suprise that Kerry daughters got booed.

From your CNN.com link:

Quote[/b] ]MTV cameras showed some audience members apparently giving the women a standing ovation, but the mixture of boos and cheers continued.

This is before even the Bush video was played or was announced it was going to be played..

bah! it was nothing, i heard it on the radio, and the cheers were much louder than the boo's. at least they have the courage to face it, were as your idol gets boo'ed and nobody cheers, kinda like what happened at Martin Luther Kings grave. now he has his spooks screen everybody to make sure they are 100% loyal neocons complete w/ decoder rings who won't heckle the president when he uses all 3 1/2 of his brain cells to make a lame speech about how its imoral to tax the rich or if he has another one of his Bushism's were he sezz something stupid.

edit: Wo0t! 2000th post! i have achieved greatness!

[Akira 0]

So now that Bush has said that Kerry served honorably, and "more heroically" than he did, what now? Your all powerful leader has admited that Kerry served better than he did.

[red oct 2]

Some war president he is.

[walker 0]

Hi all

It apears that the Swift fantasy convention is nothing but the usual smears against a decorated war hero. With the NeoConMen constantly questioning the record of US veterans and still George Bush Junior refuses to condemn the the swift fantasists.

This Convention is all about whether George Bush Junior has the courage to condemn the denigration of a genuine US war hero.

It is disgusting that the likes of Dodgy Dick Cheney and the chicken hawk NeoConMen have the afrontery to support the swift fantasists when they have never served the nation ever.

George Bush Junior and the rest of the convention has to condemn the lies told by the swift fantsists or forever be associated with its backstabing cowardice of an attack on a decorated US war hero.

Kind Regards Walker

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]It apears that the Swift fantasy convention is nothing but the usual smears against a decorated war hero. With the NeoConMen constantly questioning the record of US veterans and still George Bush Junior refuses to condemn the the swift fantasists.

This Convention is all about whether George Bush Junior has the courage to condemn the denigration of a genuine US war hero.

It is disgusting that the likes of Dodgy Dick Cheney and the chicken hawk NeoConMen have the afrontery to support the swift fantasists when they have never served the nation ever.

George Bush Junior and the rest of the convention has to condemn the lies told by the swift fantsists or forever be associated with its backstabing cowardice of an attack on a decorated US war hero.

According to my count, this entire post contains zero actual facts that contradict any of SBVfT's accusations.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]The Drudge Report is mostly a collection of links to news sites, including services such as BBC and Reuters. I suppose you could start calling BBC and Reuters "piles of shit", but I wouldn't really expect it...

If you look at the article that billybob here posted, and then rewiew the article from cnn from the same issue, I would definatly say that the drudges is pile of propaganda (written by drudge´report only) coming from an monkeys ass, what would be your analysis of compring these 2 articles?

Quote[/b] ]Have you ever provided any hard evidence that refutes any of SBVfT's main charges (That Kerry grossly exaggerated injuries and claims of heroism)? Merely calling something a "pure fantasy" doesn't change anything.

Again ill quote a CNN article:

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get the first of three Purple Hearts. SBVT alleges that the wound was a minor, self-inflicted scratch. Kerry says on Dec. 2, 1968, he and his two crewmates that night fired on men on a riverbank. It's unclear if someone fired back, but shrapnel hit Kerry's arm. Louis Letson, a medical officer at the time, says that he treated Kerry's wound and that it was too small to justify a medal. William Schacte Jr. says he was on the boat that night and there was no enemy fire; he says Kerry was injured by a grenade Kerry himself launched.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's medical record was signed not by Letson but by corpsman J.C. Carreon. Letson claims Carreon routinely signed forms for him. Letson told the Los Angeles Times he heard the wound was self-inflicted thirdhand ? from his subordinates, who heard it from Kerry's two crewmates. They deny saying that and insist Schacte wasn't on the boat that night. The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied to win his Silver Star. SBVT charges that Kerry exaggerated his role in a battle on Feb. 28, 1969. In charge of a three-boat patrol that was ambushed, Kerry ordered the boats to beach in front of their attackers and engage them head on. Kerry's boat was providing cover when a rocket hit it. Kerry jumped ashore to chase a Viet Cong with a rocket launcher and killed him. SBVT says Kerry simply shot a wounded teenager in the back. Former Lieut. Commander George Elliott, Kerry's direct superior, said in a recent affidavit that he wouldn't have awarded Kerry a Silver Star if he had known the details.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's crewmates say the boat was in clear danger. Besides, Kerry won the medal for leadership during the whole battle, and Elliott describes the entire episode in the citation he wrote. Elliott later told the Boston Globe he had made a terrible mistake in signing the affidavit. Then he signed a new affidavit standing behind the first. When newspapers questioned Kerry's account in 1996, Elliott went to Boston to uphold it. The commander of one of the other two boats, Chicago Tribune editor William Rood, corroborated Kerry's story last week.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. On March 13, 1969, five swift boats were patrolling the Bay Hap River when a mine detonated under one of them. Kerry and Green Beret Jim Rassmann, aboard other boats, claim gunfire started coming from the riverbank. After another blast knocked Rassmann overboard, Kerry pulled him onto his boat. Three members of SBVT, including Larry Thurlow, insist that there was no gunfire and that Kerry initially fled the scene, returning to help Rassmann only when it was clear there was no danger.

THE EVIDENCE The Navy also awarded Thurlow a Bronze Star that day, and his citation, signed by Elliott and uncovered by the Washington Post, reads, "All the boats came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A separate damage report mentions three bullet holes in Thurlow's boat.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied about spending Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia. In 1979 and 1986, Kerry recounted a mission in which he and his crew boated into neutral Cambodia. The Pentagon said at the time that Vietnam's neighbor was off limits, and Kerry said his mission was proof of Richard Nixon's dishonesty. Steven Gardner, the sole member of Kerry's crew to join the SBVT, says their boat was 50 miles from the Cambodian border that day.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry has no proof he entered Cambodia, though other U.S. forces certainly did. Two crew members have said the boat was near the border. Records show that the boat was about 50 miles south of Cambodia that morning. Kerry and his crew headed upriver and could have been at the border in two hours. On Christmas Eve, Nixon was President-elect; he would not be in the White House for a month. A Kerry campaign spokesman now says that Kerry might not have been in Cambodia that night but that he definitely went there on a mission.

Quote[/b] ]Kerry admitted that he'd never actually seen one of the war crimes that he talked about, and he relied on the debunked "Winter Soldier" investigation for evidence to make his claims upon.

I have not seen the brutalitys of lets say kambodia. Does that means I cant protest on the brutalitys of Cambodia? US committing atrocoties in Vietnam is not a myth, its a fact.

Quote[/b] ]michealmoore.com .........

Ive never quoted michealmoore.com. Ive quoted cnn, reuters, bbc, and so on. You choose to quote bushisourredneckhero.com and provide the articles there as a fact.

Quote[/b] ]From your CNN.com link:

Quote

MTV cameras showed some audience members apparently giving the women a standing ovation, but the mixture of boos and cheers continued.

Quote[/b] ]This is before even the Bush video was played or was announced it was going to be played..

in the first paragraph:

"It was unclear exactly whom the cheers and the boos were meant for or why. They began immediately after radio and MTV personality Carson Daly introduced "from New York, Barbara and Jenna Bush and here in Miami, Vanessa and Alexandra Kerry."

I really dont know which part of the article you didnt understand and why.

Quote[/b] ]According to my count, this entire post contains zero actual facts that contradict any of SBVfT's accusations

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get the first of three Purple Hearts. SBVT alleges that the wound was a minor, self-inflicted scratch. Kerry says on Dec. 2, 1968, he and his two crewmates that night fired on men on a riverbank. It's unclear if someone fired back, but shrapnel hit Kerry's arm. Louis Letson, a medical officer at the time, says that he treated Kerry's wound and that it was too small to justify a medal. William Schacte Jr. says he was on the boat that night and there was no enemy fire; he says Kerry was injured by a grenade Kerry himself launched.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's medical record was signed not by Letson but by corpsman J.C. Carreon. Letson claims Carreon routinely signed forms for him. Letson told the Los Angeles Times he heard the wound was self-inflicted thirdhand ? from his subordinates, who heard it from Kerry's two crewmates. They deny saying that and insist Schacte wasn't on the boat that night. The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied to win his Silver Star. SBVT charges that Kerry exaggerated his role in a battle on Feb. 28, 1969. In charge of a three-boat patrol that was ambushed, Kerry ordered the boats to beach in front of their attackers and engage them head on. Kerry's boat was providing cover when a rocket hit it. Kerry jumped ashore to chase a Viet Cong with a rocket launcher and killed him. SBVT says Kerry simply shot a wounded teenager in the back. Former Lieut. Commander George Elliott, Kerry's direct superior, said in a recent affidavit that he wouldn't have awarded Kerry a Silver Star if he had known the details.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's crewmates say the boat was in clear danger. Besides, Kerry won the medal for leadership during the whole battle, and Elliott describes the entire episode in the citation he wrote. Elliott later told the Boston Globe he had made a terrible mistake in signing the affidavit. Then he signed a new affidavit standing behind the first. When newspapers questioned Kerry's account in 1996, Elliott went to Boston to uphold it. The commander of one of the other two boats, Chicago Tribune editor William Rood, corroborated Kerry's story last week.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. On March 13, 1969, five swift boats were patrolling the Bay Hap River when a mine detonated under one of them. Kerry and Green Beret Jim Rassmann, aboard other boats, claim gunfire started coming from the riverbank. After another blast knocked Rassmann overboard, Kerry pulled him onto his boat. Three members of SBVT, including Larry Thurlow, insist that there was no gunfire and that Kerry initially fled the scene, returning to help Rassmann only when it was clear there was no danger.

THE EVIDENCE The Navy also awarded Thurlow a Bronze Star that day, and his citation, signed by Elliott and uncovered by the Washington Post, reads, "All the boats came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A separate damage report mentions three bullet holes in Thurlow's boat.

THE CHARGE Kerry lied about spending Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia. In 1979 and 1986, Kerry recounted a mission in which he and his crew boated into neutral Cambodia. The Pentagon said at the time that Vietnam's neighbor was off limits, and Kerry said his mission was proof of Richard Nixon's dishonesty. Steven Gardner, the sole member of Kerry's crew to join the SBVT, says their boat was 50 miles from the Cambodian border that day.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry has no proof he entered Cambodia, though other U.S. forces certainly did. Two crew members have said the boat was near the border. Records show that the boat was about 50 miles south of Cambodia that morning. Kerry and his crew headed upriver and could have been at the border in two hours. On Christmas Eve, Nixon was President-elect; he would not be in the White House for a month. A Kerry campaign spokesman now says that Kerry might not have been in Cambodia that night but that he definitely went there on a mission.

Source Liberal communist CNN

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get the first of three Purple Hearts. SBVT alleges that the wound was a minor, self-inflicted scratch. Kerry says on Dec. 2, 1968, he and his two crewmates that night fired on men on a riverbank. It's unclear if someone fired back, but shrapnel hit Kerry's arm. Louis Letson, a medical officer at the time, says that he treated Kerry's wound and that it was too small to justify a medal. William Schacte Jr. says he was on the boat that night and there was no enemy fire; he says Kerry was injured by a grenade Kerry himself launched.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's medical record was signed not by Letson but by corpsman J.C. Carreon. Letson claims Carreon routinely signed forms for him. Letson told the Los Angeles Times he heard the wound was self-inflicted thirdhand ? from his subordinates, who heard it from Kerry's two crewmates. They deny saying that and insist Schacte wasn't on the boat that night. The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.

Kerry has not given any facts to contradict SBVfT's accusation that Kerry received his shrapnel wound after firing an M-79 too close to his boat.

Quote[/b] ]The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.

Literally, yes. But many of Kerry's fellow Swift Boaters refused to accept Purple Hearts for minor contusions and small shrapnel wounds. Kerry's acceptance of Purple Hearts for minor cuts cheapens the meaning of the medal.

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied to win his Silver Star. SBVT charges that Kerry exaggerated his role in a battle on Feb. 28, 1969. In charge of a three-boat patrol that was ambushed, Kerry ordered the boats to beach in front of their attackers and engage them head on. Kerry's boat was providing cover when a rocket hit it. Kerry jumped ashore to chase a Viet Cong with a rocket launcher and killed him. SBVT says Kerry simply shot a wounded teenager in the back. Former Lieut. Commander George Elliott, Kerry's direct superior, said in a recent affidavit that he wouldn't have awarded Kerry a Silver Star if he had known the details.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry's crewmates say the boat was in clear danger. Besides, Kerry won the medal for leadership during the whole battle, and Elliott describes the entire episode in the citation he wrote. Elliott later told the Boston Globe he had made a terrible mistake in signing the affidavit. Then he signed a new affidavit standing behind the first. When newspapers questioned Kerry's account in 1996, Elliott went to Boston to uphold it. The commander of one of the other two boats, Chicago Tribune editor William Rood, corroborated Kerry's story last week.

Even so, there were other boat commanders who behaved just as heroically, charging straight up to the shore and depositing soldiers, but these commanders didn't receive anything close to a Silver Star. Kerry's boat followed another boat when it crashed onto the shore before Kerry's boat, but the commander of this lead boat didn't receive a Silver Star. This order of events has been repeated by many of the participants at this engagement, including at least one pro-Kerry veteran.

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. On March 13, 1969, five swift boats were patrolling the Bay Hap River when a mine detonated under one of them. Kerry and Green Beret Jim Rassmann, aboard other boats, claim gunfire started coming from the riverbank. After another blast knocked Rassmann overboard, Kerry pulled him onto his boat. Three members of SBVT, including Larry Thurlow, insist that there was no gunfire and that Kerry initially fled the scene, returning to help Rassmann only when it was clear there was no danger.

THE EVIDENCE The Navy also awarded Thurlow a Bronze Star that day, and his citation, signed by Elliott and uncovered by the Washington Post, reads, "All the boats came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A separate damage report mentions three bullet holes in Thurlow's boat.

Yes, but this conveniently ignores Kerry's boat hauling ass out of the area after the mine explosion. The boat fled for several hundred meters (Unlike the other boats, which headed to the crippled PCF 3) before finally turning around and picking up Rassmann.

Quote[/b] ]THE CHARGE Kerry lied about spending Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia. In 1979 and 1986, Kerry recounted a mission in which he and his crew boated into neutral Cambodia. The Pentagon said at the time that Vietnam's neighbor was off limits, and Kerry said his mission was proof of Richard Nixon's dishonesty. Steven Gardner, the sole member of Kerry's crew to join the SBVT, says their boat was 50 miles from the Cambodian border that day.

THE EVIDENCE Kerry has no proof he entered Cambodia, though other U.S. forces certainly did. Two crew members have said the boat was near the border. Records show that the boat was about 50 miles south of Cambodia that morning. Kerry and his crew headed upriver and could have been at the border in two hours. On Christmas Eve, Nixon was President-elect; he would not be in the White House for a month. A Kerry campaign spokesman now says that Kerry might not have been in Cambodia that night but that he definitely went there on a mission.

This doesn't disprove that Kerry lied about spending "Christmas in Cambodia".

[walker 0]

According to my count, this entire post contains zero actual facts that contradict any of SBVfT's accusations.

Hi m21man

I posted refutations of the swift fantasies obviously they were too long and complex for you to understand so I will break them up into easily digestable parts let us begin. One refutation per fantasy per post.

1) The swift fantsists say he did not patrol the Cambodian border.

It is a LIE

Do a search for Kerry on this page, an offical US Navy swiftboats veterans site unlike the swift fantasists site. http://swiftboats.net/#pcf66

Under Kerry's Boat: PCF 66 In that table it says:-

Crew: John Forbes Kerry ,LTJG, OinC

Dates: 10/68-4/69,

Base: An Thoi

Comments MA Boston

Here are the names of the associated patrol areas:

http://swiftboats.net/extras/patrol_areas.htm

Patrol Areas 9B thru 9H1 (An Thoi) are right on the Cambodian border.

Here's a map that shows the patreol areas just to make it clear: http://ideamouth.com/politics/PatrolAreas.jpeg

Of course the NeoConMen wont accept the truth and will ignore this and like George Bush Junior you m21man will not have the courage required of an honourable man to apologise for the lie you helped perpetuate with your support of the swift fantasies.

m21man: If you have any honour, courage or moral fibre you must condemn this lie and apologise for your supporting it.

 

Regards Walker

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]1) The swift fantsists say he did not patrol the Cambodian border.

It is a LIE

The charge leveled at Kerry is that he lied about spending Christmas in Cambodia, not near Cambodia.

1. The boats that got closest to the border were PBRs, not Swift Boats.

2. The border was heavily blockaded by an LCU and several PBRs. Kerry could not have gotten through.

[Akira 0]

So no one has answered, and I'm pretty sure I know why.

Bush has stated, categorically, that Kerry served "more heroically" than he did. That Kerry "served with honor."

Doesn't sound like the swifty version.

So now that your all powerful idol has stated, on the record, that Kerry served heroically, where does that leave you?

Quote[/b] ]The charge leveled at Kerry is that he lied about spending Christmas in Cambodia, not near Cambodia.

How the hell is he suppose to know exactly where he is in the jungle? They didn't have any GPS back then far as I know. And Kerry has already said, "on or near" the Cambodian border, which as walker pointed out, is true.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]How the hell is he suppose to know exactly where he is in the jungle? They didn't have any GPS back then far as I know. And Kerry has already said, "on or near" the Cambodian border, which as walker pointed out, is true.

Because the border was blocked off. Kerry would have to have deliberately snuck in to Cambodia, he couldn't have just mosied on in. And as a commander of a Swift Boat, he had no business being close to the border, an area that was handled by PBRs.

What was Swift Boat like this:

Doing in an area that was supposed to be patrolled by these?

Quote[/b] ]So no one has answered, and I'm pretty sure I know why.

Bush has stated, categorically, that Kerry served "more heroically" than he did. That Kerry "served with honor."

Doesn't sound like the swifty version.

So now that your all powerful idol has stated, on the record, that Kerry served heroically, where does that leave you?

Because Bush is a politician, and he has to cover his own ass.

[Akira 0]

Because Bush is a politician, and he has to cover his own ass.

So Bush is lying too?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]So Bush is lying too?

No, Bush is taking the stand that Kerry's presence in Vietnam automatically made him more heroic than Bush. And Bush is being sensible in holding accusations until more evidence is presented.

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

M21, not saying ur completely wrong but Kerry's duty did include supporting special operations forces so how would u know definately where he did and did not operate..SOG and other special op units made NUMEROUS incursions into Cambodia and Laos...and they didn't get there by walking. And that region was not patrolled soley by PBR's..where u got that I have no idea... he might have or might not have been there no one on this board knows for a fact so trying to argue about it is pointless

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]So Bush is lying too?

No, Bush is taking the stand that Kerry's presence in Vietnam automatically made him more heroic than Bush. And Bush is being sensible in holding accusations until more evidence is presented.

Your analysis of the Bush strategy aside...

Bush stating categorically that Kerry is "more heroic" contridicts the Swift Boats. So who is lying?

[walker 0]

Hi m21man

The patrol area is there on the map for all to see.

The Patrol Area for An Thoi IS the border with Cambodia.

No if but or maybe. It is the border. As they are in boats it is on water there is no fence in the sea or the river. If the tide is in on those estuary waters the place looks diferent to when the tide is out. Islands apear and disapear. A delta that is passable at high tide becomes a clogged mangrove swamp at low tide you have to choose another safe route.

Kerry was there in the Vietnam at a time when arms were being smugled down the river and across the Cambodian border, his job was to intercept those smugling boats, it is obvious from time to time by accedent and even by order they would have crossed that border in pursuit of their mission.

Quote[/b] ]1. The boats that got closest to the border were PBRs, not Swift Boats.

Is a complete a red herring the swift boat is a shallow draft boat that can, as it is designed be driven up on shore as Kerry did when he charge the VC's rockets to win his Silver Star.

m21man: If you have any honour, courage or moral fibre you must condemn this lie and apologise for your supporting it.

Kind Regards Walker

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bush stating categorically that Kerry is "more heroic" contridicts the Swift Boats. So who is lying?

No. SBVfT states that Kerry was a medal-grubbing little shit. Bush states that Kerry (While not denying that Kerry was a medal-grubbing glory hunter) was more heroic than a former-coke-using alchoholic national guardsman. Kerry being more heroic than Bush doesn't prove much, does it ?