Next time you think sci-fi, think again

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Don't you know the story of Columbus and the egg  

No

egg? Want to tell me what the story is?

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Don't you know the story of Columbus and the egg  

No  

egg? Want to tell me what the story is?  

He sold his eggs for scientific studies. That is why scientist today can clone stuff.

[ralphwiggum 6]

so, Columbus is joiing a dinner or a luncheon with other royals afer returning from his first trip to America. Somebody quipps that Columbus's travel to America was not something extraordinary.

columbus then suggests to people, 'could anyone of you make this boiled egg stand on table?' people try but can't.

then Columbus breaks the bottom of the egg and puts it on table. it stands.

[denoir 0]

Well, actually there are like 50 variations of the story. The most common one is I think that he used it as an argument to convince Queen Isabella to finance him. He was ridiculed for his idea of going around the earth, since most educated men knew that the earth was flat. So Queen Isabella challenges him to show with an egg how he thought it would be possible. And then he breaks the bottom of the egg blah blah

Here's another version:

Quote[/b] ]One day Columbus was at a dinner which a Spanish gentleman had given in his honor, and several persons were present who were jealous of the great admiral's success. They were proud, conceited fellows, and they very soon began to try to make Columbus uncomfortable.

``You have discovered strange lands beyond the seas,'' they said, ``but what of that? We do not see why there should be so much said about it. Anybody can sail across the ocean; and anybody can coast along the islands on the other side, just as you have done. It is the simplest thing in the world.''

Columbus made no answer; but after a while he took an egg from a dish and said to the company:--

``Who among you, gentlemen, can make this egg stand on end?''

One by one those at the table tried the experiment. When the egg had gone entirely around and none had succeeded, all said that it could not be done.

Then Columbus took the egg and struck its small end gently upon the table so as to break the shell a little. After that there was no trouble in making it stand upright.

``Gentlemen,'' said he, ``what is easier than to do this which you said was impossible? It is the simplest thing in the world. Anybody can do it,--AFTER HE HAS BEEN SHOWN HOW!''

Anyhow, it's almost certainly a made up story. Interestingly enough, Columbus was at his death bed still convinced that he had reached some remote part of India.

[Gadger 0]

Does the cost of space exploration and the risks involved warrant the information that is discovered?

[Pipski 0]

No, what warrants the cost is the satisfaction of an inbuilt drive to explore, a desire to push back the horizon and the romance of stepping beyond our cosy little niche environment and driving our own development.

[Gadger 0]

Well, i'd rather wait till costs were cheaper, i mean $300 billion,(in terms of that launching from the moon project discussed not so long ago) aint that like every US citizen chipping in $100 bucks?

Ain't non stick pans the only thing the moon landings in the 60's taught us?    

Bah my pessimistic attitude, but that what you get for being a business student  

*EDIT* my bad didnt read full report: http://www.usatoday.com/news....r_x.htm

its actually been estimated at Å1 trillion, so thats 350 bucks each  

[denoir 0]

It's only getting cheaper if we get a space industry going. And without these first investments, there won't be any space industry.

The initial cost of new technology is always high. It doesn't become cheaper if you wait longer. Space exploration is such a specific field that very few external technological developments are going to help.

[Gadger 0]

Quote[/b] ]It doesnt become cheaper if you wait longer

Depends, if researched and developed properly over time, you will get more bang for your buck, the Moon landings cost almost the same in terms of price index as this is costing now, and this involves not only going to the moon, but going to the moon, setting up a launch station then going to mars, aswell as the stuff inbetween.

[denoir 0]

That's because we already went to the moon and developed the technology then. Had we not gone then, it would be at least as expensive today as it was then.

[Acecombat 0]

But first we gotta stopfighting among ourselves

*Imagines american satellites sabotaging chinese sats*

[Gadger 0]

Fair point Denoir, but my point is: If I was a US taxpayer I would like to see a result into which my money has gone, which nobody can guarantee. Just my feeling that if the governments of this world are going to spend that sum of money it would be better spent elsewhere, i.e. education, developing 3rd world countries, turning Man City into a promising premiership title contender etc.   Or at the very least collaborate, share the outgoings, rather than spending a huge some of money in what is basically the same thing independently, bahh it will never happen, at least not in my life time.

[denoir 0]

Fair point Denoir, but my point is: If I was a US taxpayer I would like to see a result into which my money has gone, which nobody can guarantee. Just my feeling that if the governments of this world are going to spend that sum of money it would be better spent elsewhere, i.e. education, developing 3rd world countries, turning Man City into a promising premiership title contender etc.   Or at the very least collaborate, share the outgoings, rather than spending a huge some of money in what is basically the same thing independently, bahh it will never happen, at least not in my life time.  

Well, it beats burning another $100 bn on another war, right?   The money will be spent anyhow and it's not very likely it will be on education etc

Personally, if the EU decided on a project like this, I would be more than willing to see my tax money being invested in something of so grand historical importance for all man kind. But that's just me  

I fully agree with you on cooperation. This should not be a US only project. We should all pitch in and do it in the name of our spieces, rather than in the name of a nation-state.

[denoir 0]

First picture from ESA's Mars Express:

Quote[/b] ]It shows a portion of a 1700 km long and 65 km wide swath which was taken in south-north direction across the Grand Canyon of Mars (Valles Marineris) from two perspectives. It is the first image of this size that shows the surface of Mars in high resolution (12 metres per pixel), in colour, and in 3D.

[ larger image]

Edit: They call the camera HRSC (High Resolution Stereo Camera). When they say "High Resolution", they're not kidding. That's  a 764 Megapixel camera boys and girls   And the bastard is in stereo too, so it can generate a 3d model of the landscape on the fly  

Edit 2: To add another [ ], they're saying that after the two year mission of Mars Express is complete, we will have a better overview of Mars than we have of Earth.

[Pipski 0]

That's  a 764 Megapixel camera boys and girls   And the bastard is in stereo too, so it can generate a 3d model of the landscape on the fly  

What would be really cool would be if they could use the stereo footage to produce a 3D IMAX film of Mars. I went to see the 3D International Space Station one and that was awesome.

[denoir 0]

Caltech makes green off red planet rovers

Quote[/b] ]In 1999, Mattel Inc. produced a Hot Wheels "Action Pack" featuring models of NASA's Mars Climate Orbiter, Polar Lander and twin Deep Space 2 microprobe spacecraft.

Just weeks after Mattel's $5 set went on sale, all four spacecraft were lost.

Mattel never aggressively marketed the toys, at least one of which later appeared on online auction site eBay advertised as a NASA "Crash Pack," said Alice Wessen, manager of JPL's technology outreach office.

JPL contacted Mattel to gauge interest in making a Martian rover toy for this mission. The company never replied, Wessen said.

LMAO

[cozza 24]

Reminds me of selectthis' desert malden

hey yehh it does

Why we need to go to mars when we can play flashpoint which we do

[WhoCares 0]

Would somebody ask them to get rid of the shadows? Then we could create a b/w version of it and use it as elevation data for OFP

[ralphwiggum 6]

Oops!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/22/spirit.contact/index.html

Quote[/b] ]PASADENA, California (CNN) -- NASA researchers said Thursday they were unable to make contact with the Mars rover "Spirit" and the source of the problem was unknown.

Spirit project manager Pete Theisinger told reporters there is a "very serious anomaly" in communicating with the robot and the last exchange of information scientists had with the craft was Wednesday morning. Researchers continued attempting to contact the six-wheeled rover and remained hopeful that the problem could be resolved.

Scientists initially thought a storm in Australia was keeping them from sending signals to instruct the Spirit rover to drill into a Mars rock. But on Thursday, the problem appeared to be more serious than a passing storm.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]PASADENA, California (CNN) -- NASA researchers said Thursday they were unable to make contact with the Mars rover "Spirit" and the source of the problem was unknown.

Spirit project manager Pete Theisinger told reporters there is a "very serious anomaly" in communicating with the robot and the last exchange of information scientists had with the craft was Wednesday morning. Researchers continued attempting to contact the six-wheeled rover and remained hopeful that the problem could be resolved.

Scientists initially thought a storm in Australia was keeping them from sending signals to instruct the Spirit rover to drill into a Mars rock. But on Thursday, the problem appeared to be more serious than a passing storm.

Little meteorite's can be a hassle outside earth.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]NASA researchers said Thursday they were unable to make contact with the Mars rover "Spirit" and the source of the problem was unknown.

Aw, come on I'll be seriously disappointed if it dies.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]NASA researchers said Thursday they were unable to make contact with the Mars rover "Spirit" and the source of the problem was unknown.

Aw, come on   I'll be seriously disappointed if it dies.

dude, what did you expect? Made in USA(by NASA)

let's see what happens. NASA at least got the machine on the planet, and two previous attempts were disasterous. There is a small step made here, and if the rover is malfunctioning, maybe they can work on it and try to comeup with better one next time.

we are trying to control something that is miles away, so it isn't the easiest thing to do.

[denoir 0]

I can understand Beagle. It was a gamble, a cheap-ass project, not even costing a tenth of one of these rovers. But this is something that they spent as much money on as they thought were needed. Is this really the best that NASA can muster today? If so then NASA is truly in a sad state.

In 1977 the two Voyager probes were launched. They orbited all the gas and ice giants and their moons, they flew through asteroid belts, were exposed to extreme radiation, had close encounter with micro-meteorites and are today, 27 years later still functioning perfectly.

And what is NASA capable today? Not even creating something that would last three weeks. Sad.  

NASA needs to be rebuilt, from bottom up. They need to get new, competent engineers and competent managers.

The 840 million dollar rovers should have had not one, but eight computers and not one radio transmitter but 10. There should have been so much redundency that you could attack it with a base ball bat and throw it in a pit of mud and that it would still survive.

[ralphwiggum 6]

back in cold war, space exploration was the coolest thing, but now it's not that much of a deal. so brains that could have been used are dispersed to other sectors.

can the flames of life flare again in space explorarion? I really hope so, but this time, doing something more than just sending to moon would be needed, and even that is a risky bet. i say NASA needs to take things step by step. this problem is one offset, but hopefully they can get back up.

Quote[/b] ]The 840 million dollar rovers should have had not one, but eight computers and not one radio transmitter but 10. There should have been so much redundency that you could attack it with a base ball bat and throw it in a pit of mud and that it would still survive.

there's a tradeoff. want M16 or AK47?

[denoir 0]

back in cold war, space exploration was the coolest thing, but now it's not that much of a deal. so brains that could have been used are dispersed to other sectors.

can the flames of life flare again in space explorarion? I really hope so, but this time, doing something more than just sending to moon would be needed, and even that is a risky bet. i say NASA needs to take things step by step. this problem is one offset, but hopefully they can get back up.

Indeed, if you look at the Mars Climate Orbiter and Mars Polar Lander failures closer, you see that there were very serious, very basic fuck-ups. From an engineering point of view, such mistakes as were made then don't happen in even the most primitive industry here on earth. Apparently the myth about the brilliance of the people working in the space industry is exactly that: a myth.

They need to get competent people, and to get that they need need a big, important project and a lot more money.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]The 840 million dollar rovers should have had not one, but eight computers and not one radio transmitter but 10. There should have been so much redundency that you could attack it with a base ball bat and throw it in a pit of mud and that it would still survive.

there's a tradeoff. want M16 or AK47?

When going to mars an AK-47 of course. And this has to be done on a larger scale. They can't be sending one or two probes every five years. They should be sending 20 of them each year. Make them cheaper and learn from the problems that occur.

When NASA was planning for the moon, they, without a moment of hesitation sent a dozen "Lunar Prospector" probes that kamikaze-style crashed into the moon while providing real time telemetry.

The Soviets sent 20 probes to Venus within the time frame of a couple of years. They also sent a dozen robotic explorers to the moon.