War against terror

[der bastler 0]

Another "terrorist" strikes again...

Quote[/b] ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI FEB 25, 2005 10:45:30 ET XXXXX

T-MOBILE TERRORIST STRIKES AGAIN: HARDCORE PHONE VIDEO OF ROCKER FRED DURST

**Exclusive**

The hacker who splashed the contents of Paris Hilton's T-MOBILE Sidekick has struck again, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

This time the self-described 'T-MOBILE TERRORIST' has turned even more vicious -- by unleashing a 3-minute hardcore sex videophone capture of Limp Bizkit rocker Fred Durst.

The hardcore video -- with audio -- shows Durst engaging in unprotected sex with a female. The graphic ''T-MOBILE TERRORIST' is seen throughout the clip.

A site hosting the hack reads: 'I'M SORRY, U SELLOUT '

"The previous information was obtained using social engineering tactics."

Law enforcement officials believe the video comes from the same source who presented Paris's Sidekick diary.

Developing...

A 3-minute hardcore sex videophone capture... who did this movie?

Durst in action (extended arm pr0n? *chuckles*)?

Durst's little helper?

Or the terrorist himself ("Yeah, Fred, do it! No, I won't post this!")?

Seems PR to me...

[Thunderbird 0]

Today a lot of israelis were killed in a terrorist attack , so , please , I know that that made you nervous , angry..etc , but please don't think that "palestin" is again your "ennemy" , there's only few fu.... stupid terrorists who do that , I hope that the IDF won't attack again palestin by killing innoncent people ...

The Palestinian government condemns this ashamed act, the IDF shouldn't attack Palestine for a band of stupids, the new palestinian president is an excellent president and he does all so that peace is restored in Palestine, I have only one wish is that the Israeli army doesn't enter on the Palestinian territory and the terrorists'll stop their acts

[theavonlady 2]

WMDs found in Iran!

In other news:

Quote[/b] ]Report: Bomb Suspect Had N.Y. Rail Sketch

1 hour, 16 minutes ago Europe - AP

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - A suspect in the Madrid train bombings was found to possess a sketch and technical details about Grand Central Terminal in New York, a report said Wednesday.

The sketch and data were on a computer disk seized about two weeks after the March 11 train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people last year, the newspaper El Mundo said.

Spanish police turned the disk over to the U.S. agents from the FBI (news - web sites) and CIA (news - web sites) in December once they understood the scope of the technical data, the report said.

A U.S. Embassy official confirmed that American law enforcement authorities received information related to Grand Central Terminal from Spanish authorities in December. The official declined to go into detail.

However, a Spanish police official said Spanish and U.S. authorities don't lend much credibility to the sketch, saying it is not even clear it is supposed to be a picture of Grand Central Terminal.

The police official, who spoke on customary condition of anonymity, confirmed that the sketch was found in the home of Mouhannad Almallah, a Syrian who was arrested in Madrid on March 24 but later released, although he is still considered a suspect.

Almallah was questioned over his alleged ties to two suspects jailed in connection with the attack after witnesses placed them aboard trains targeted in the string of 10 bombs, El Mundo said.

A total of 24 people are in jail over the attack, although at least 40 more who were arrested and released are still considered suspects.

[theavonlady 2]

Uranium in Ukrainium!

Quote[/b] ]Ukraine Secret Service Seizes Uranium at Airport

Wed Mar 2, 5:49 AM ET World - Reuters

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's SBU security service arrested a man at Kiev's airport who had a case containing radioactive uranium-238 in his car, the Emergencies Ministry said Tuesday.

It said the man was detained at Boryspil airport, Ukraine's main international gateway, with 582 grams of uranium. It did not say when the arrest took place or whether he had been attempting to leave the country.

"SBU officers detained the person who was moving a case with a radioactive substance -- Uranium-238 -- in his car," the ministry said in a statement. It said ministry specialists had seized the case.

A ministry official said an investigation had been launched. SBU officials were not immediately available for comment.

Depleted uranium, where uranium-238 is normally found, can theoretically be used to make nuclear "dirty bombs," but it is often used in gun ammunition and armor because of its high density.

Ukraine gave up its share of the Soviet nuclear arsenal after independence in 1991 but remains home to some of Europe's largest nuclear power stations. The country is trying to strengthen security and border controls as it now borders three member states of the enlarged European Union.

Eastern Europe's vast pool of nuclear technology is of major concern to the United States and the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, as it remains open to theft and black market trade.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/05/zarqawi.pics/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- CNN has obtained new pictures of a man believed to be America's most-wanted terrorist in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, whose network carries out frequent attacks against Iraqi and U.S. civilians and multinational troops.

The United States has placed a $25 million bounty on the Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi's head. He is wanted for fueling the insurgency in Iraq and in connection with the beheadings of several Western hostages and Iraqi and Arab civilians.

Islamic Web sites have posted at least two videos said to show his followers publicly executing men they believe are associated with the U.S.-led occupation.

Intelligence officials said this week that al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has enlisted the help of al-Zarqawi to plan new attacks inside the United States. Sources tell CNN the man in the photos is indeed al-Zarqawi.

Group's name changed to al Qaeda

Al-Zarqawi's group is believed to be responsible for car bombings and beheadings throughout Iraq. Last year, he declared his allegiance to al Qaeda and renamed his group from Unification and Jihad to al Qaeda in Iraq.

<snip>

keep showing your face and one day you'll lose one...

[quicksand 0]

I wonder what made him so confident to show his face for the first since we have first heared him name?He is the most wanted man in Iraq and the pictures on his bounty add show a considerably different face.

Further more his succes in evading capture was widely credited due to the fact he travells alone and uses forged documents,he could have easily fooled me if I were to meet him at a random checkpoint check so it goes to proove that everything we know about him is simply speculation.

The man either is feeling chillingly secure wherever he is in Iraq - an option I can't understand why since members of the toppled regime who had better tribal connections and knew the country like the palm of their hand were captured by US forces or he is not in Iraq at all and he is operating from an unsupsecting country.

[Balschoiw 0]

That man has a broad and open corridor to Syria and Iran as he´s under protection of several "clans" that do treat him like a family member. He could even dance all across Iraq to Syria in his underwear and noone would inform interim government or coalition forces as the corridors he moves in are vastly not under control of anyone but his ancient friends.

[Akira 0]

60 Minutes is having a segment about the unmarked 737BBJ and G-V and the "masked men" that grab terror suspects and whisk them off to interogation. They are mentioning one operation in Stockholm that "set off a scandal."

EDIT: Its called the Rendition program and was originally set up during the Clinton Admin.

[Balschoiw 0]

Tata !

Now it get´s official. Bush sent suspects to torture -willing countries to have the dirty work done there.

Bush Gave CIA Expansive Interrogation Power -Paper

Quote[/b] ] The newspaper said President Bush (news - web sites) signed a still-classified directive that gave the CIA broad power to operate without case-by-case approval from the White House in the transfer of suspects -- a process known as rendition.

The CIA declined to comment on the report, and the White House would not confirm the directive.

But White House counselor Dan Bartlett defended the administration's policies, saying it was important after the Sept. 11 attacks to take a "hard look at our entire apparatus -- militarily, intelligence, diplomatic -- to see how we were going to fight and win the war on terror."

"Part of this is to make sure that we can deal with known terrorists, who may have information about live operations, and it's critical that we get -- (are) able to detain them and have the information," Bartlett said on CNN's "Late Edition."

The rendition program has been under scrutiny in recent weeks after several former detainees complained of inhumane treatment and human rights groups have complained the operations violated American standards condemning torture.

While renditions were carried out before the Sept. 11 attacks, the CIA has since flown 100 to 150 suspects to countries including Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan, The Times reported.

A separate report by CBS's "60 Minutes" quoted a former Swedish diplomat who said suspects were stripped, shackled and drugged by masked men before being flown to Egypt, where they were subjected to "electric torture."

'SOMEONE ELSE TO DO YOUR DIRTY WORK'

Michael Scheuer, a former CIA analyst who helped set up the rendition program during the Clinton administration, said officials understood what it meant to send suspects to those countries.

"They don't have the same legal system we have. But we know that going into it," he told CBS. "It's finding someone else to do your dirty work."

Craig Murray, the former British ambassador in Uzbekistan, told CBS that Uzbek citizens, captured in Afghanistan (news - web sites), were flown back to Uzbekistan, where torture techniques include boiling body parts. Tashkent denies it uses systematic torture.

One senior U.S. official told The New York Times that the program had been aimed only at those suspected of knowledge about terrorism operations and were transferred with promises they would not be tortured.

"We get assurances; we check on those assurances, and we double-check on these assurances to make sure that people are being handled properly in respect to human rights," the official said.

He did not dispute there had been mistreatment on some occasions, but said no one died.

The Bush administration has publicly said the United States did not hand over people to be tortured.

"At every step of the way, President Bush and his administration has made very clear that we abide by the laws of our land and the treaty obligations we have," Bartlett told CNN. "We will not torture here in America, and we will not export torture. That is unacceptable to this president, and something that we will not tolerate."

Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news, bio, voting record), a Connecticut Democrat and former vice presidential candidate, said he was concerned by the report but, "I'm not jumping to conclusions."

He said renditions were not at issue, but the treatment of such prisoners, and that he would reserve judgment until the CIA inspector general completed an ongoing investigation. (Additional reporting by Adam Entous)

Keep on the excellent work Bush. Freedom to torture worldwide but OF COURSE not on US soil. Torture is so trendy these days. I wonder when there will be held torture party´s in the White house for the public, like in good ol Rome where they fed some christians to the lions...

Of course the US administration didn´t know that their prisoner export to torture willing countries would affect the prisoners health, personal integrity and break fundamental human rights. Of course they didn´t know that ! Trust me !

They were only searching for a better way to treat them in an appropriate way. On a sidenote, only 7 percent of the suspects imprisoned by US forces worldwide actually turned out to be criminals and only 0.6 percent of them were actually involved in terrorist activities. So far the US have the badest record worldwide in bringing terrorists to court and justice. Only check the 911 files. Suspects were brought to court in many countries but not the USA. Surprising ?

[theavonlady 2]

Tata !

Now it get´s official. Bush sent suspects to torture -willing countries to have the dirty work done there.

Michael Scheuer, a former CIA analyst who <span style='color:red'>helped set up the rendition program during the Clinton administration</span>, said officials understood what it meant to send suspects to those countries.

What's the difference between what Clinton and Bush approved?

[Balschoiw 0]

Maybe that Clinton is not in the oval office ?

Apart from that I guess the numbers of people sent to that cosy countries differs a bit, don´t you think ?

I even can´t recall Clinton setting up Gitmo...

[theavonlady 2]

Maybe that Clinton is not in the oval office ?  

Or maybe because 9/11 didn't happen during Clinton's term?

Quote[/b] ]Apart from that I guess the numbers of people sent to that cosy countries differs a bit, don´t you think ?

I even can´t recall Clinton setting up Gitmo...

Answered above.

[Akira 0]

Tata !

Now it get´s official. Bush sent suspects to torture -willing countries to have the dirty work done there.

Quote[/b] ]Michael Scheuer, a former CIA analyst who <span style='color:red'>helped set up the rendition program during the Clinton administration</span>, said officials understood what it meant to send suspects to those countries.

What's the difference between what Clinton and Bush approved?

The difference is that 60 Minutes obtained (quite easily) the flight plans of this plane. During the Clinton Admin. there were hardly any flights. When Bush got in office they started to increase, and then exploded after 9/11.

Also, the planes (based in N. Carolina) would grab a suspect and then fly them to a country known to use torture. After Bush and after 9/11 the plane made stops in Moracco, Syria, Jordan, Eygpt, Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan among others. So I guess Bush doesn't like those regimes unless they can do his dirty work for him eh?

It also had an interesting interview with a man (a German citizen) that was grabbed in Macedonia and flown to Baghdad and Kabul where he was tortured. Turned out he wasn't even the guy they wanted.

Also, is it not against international law for a government to not only sanction but actively participate in the kidnapping of foreign citizens on foreign soil?

So the difference isn't in approval, but usage.

EDIT: The plane in question

EDIT2: Early morning spelling and contextual errors

[theavonlady 2]

Like shooting oneself in the foot.

Quote[/b] ]Terror Suspects Buying Firearms, U.S. Report Finds

By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: March 8, 2005

WASHINGTON, March 7 - Dozens of terror suspects on federal watch lists were allowed to buy firearms legally in the United States last year, according to a Congressional investigation that points up major vulnerabilities in federal gun laws.

People suspected of being members of a terrorist group are not automatically barred from legally buying a gun, and the investigation, conducted by the Government Accountability Office, indicated that people with clear links to terrorist groups had regularly taken advantage of this gap.

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, law enforcement officials and gun control groups have voiced increasing concern about the prospect of a terrorist walking into a gun shop, legally buying an assault rifle or other type of weapon and using it in an attack.

The G.A.O. study offers the first full-scale examination of the possible dangers posed by gaps in the law, Congressional officials said, and it concludes that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "could better manage" its gun-buying records in matching them against lists of suspected terrorists.

F.B.I. officials maintain that they are hamstrung by laws and policies restricting the use of gun-buying records because of concerns over the privacy rights of gun owners.

At least 44 times from February 2004 to June, people whom the F.B.I. regards as known or suspected members of terrorist groups sought permission to buy or carry a gun, the investigation found.

In all but nine cases, the F.B.I. or state authorities who handled the requests allowed the applications to proceed because a check of the would-be buyer found no automatic disqualification like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or someone deemed "mentally defective," the report found.

In the four months after the formal study ended, the authorities received an additional 14 gun applications from terror suspects, and all but 2 of those were cleared to proceed, the investigation found. In all, officials approved 47 of 58 gun applications from terror suspects over a nine-month period last year, it found.

The gun buyers came up as positive matches on a classified internal F.B.I. watch list that includes thousands of terrorist suspects, many of whom are being monitored, trailed or sought for questioning as part of terrorism investigations into Islamic-based, militia-style and other groups, official said. G.A.O. investigators were not given access to the identities of the gun buyers because of those investigations.

The report is to be released on Tuesday, and an advance copy was provided to The New York Times.

Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, who requested the study, plans to introduce legislation to address the problem in part by requiring federal officials to keep records of gun purchases by terror suspects for a minimum of 10 years. Such records must now be destroyed within 24 hours as a result of a change ordered by Congress last year. Mr. Lautenberg maintains that the new policy has hindered terrorism investigations by eliminating the paper trail on gun purchases.

"Destroying these records in 24 hours is senseless and will only help terrorists cover their tracks," Mr. Lautenberg said Monday. "It's an absurd policy."

He blamed what he called the Bush administration's "twisted allegiances" to the National Rifle Association for the situation.

The N.R.A. and gun rights supporters in Congress have fought - successfully, for the most part - to limit the use of the F.B.I.'s national gun-buying database as a tool for law enforcement investigators, saying the database would amount to an illegal registry of gun owners nationwide.

The legal debate over how gun records are used became particularly contentious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, when it was disclosed that the Justice Department and John Ashcroft, then the attorney general, had blocked the F.B.I. from using the gun-buying records to match against some 1,200 suspects who were detained as part of the Sept. 11 investigation. Mr. Ashcroft maintained that using the records in a criminal investigation would violate the federal law that created the system for instant background gun checks, but Justice Department lawyers who reviewed the issue said they saw no such prohibition.

In response to the report, Mr. Lautenberg also plans to ask Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales to assess whether people listed on the F.B.I.'s terror watch list should be automatically barred from buying a gun. Such a policy would require a change in federal law.

F.B.I. officials acknowledge shortcomings in the current approach to using gun-buying records in terror cases, but they say they are somewhat constrained by gun laws as established by Congress and interpreted by the Justice Department.

"We're in a tough position," said an F.B.I. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report has not been formally released. "Obviously, we want to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, but we also have to be mindful of privacy and civil rights concerns, and we can't do anything beyond what the law allows us to do."

After initial reluctance from Mr. Ashcroft over Second Amendment concerns, the Justice Department changed its policy in February 2004 to allow the F.B.I. to do more cross-checking between gun-buying records and terrorist intelligence.

Under the new policy, millions of gun applications are run against the F.B.I.'s internal terrorist watch list, and if there is a match, bureau field agents or other counterterrorism personnel are to be contacted to determine whether they have any information about the terror suspect.

In some cases, the extra review allowed the F.B.I. to block a gun purchase by a suspected terrorist that might otherwise have proceeded because of a lag time in putting information into the database, the accountability office's report said.

In one instance last year, follow-up information provided by F.B.I. field agents revealed that someone on a terror watch list was deemed "mentally defective," even though that information had not yet made its way into the gun database. In a second case, field agents disclosed that an applicant was in the country illegally. Both applications were denied.

Even so, the report concluded that the Justice Department should clarify what information could and could not be shared between gun-buying administrators and terrorism investigators. It also concluded that the F.B.I. should keep closer track of the performance of state officials who handle gun background checks in lieu of the F.B.I.

"Given that these background checks involve known or suspected terrorists who could pose homeland security risks," the report said, "more frequent F.B.I. oversight or centralized management would help ensure that suspected terrorists who have disqualifying factors do not obtain firearms in violation of the law."

[Balschoiw 0]

It´s somehow like allowing Bin Laden family members to be flown out of the US after 9/11...

[Daddl 10]

Chechen Rebel Leader Killed (bbc online)

Quote[/b] ]Russian forces say they have killed Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov.

He was killed in a special operation inside the breakaway Russian republic, army spokesman Gen Ilya Shabalkin said.

Russian television have shown pictures of the body that resembled that of Mr Maskhadov. There is no confirmation of the death by Chechen rebels.

Mr Maskhadov was elected Chechen president in January 1997 but was ousted two years later when Russia sent troops to quell an independence drive.

[Balschoiw 0]

They finally got him !

Russian Army: Chechen Leader Maskhadov Is Killed

Quote[/b] ]MOSCOW (Reuters) - Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov has been killed by Russian troops fighting to quell a long rebellion in the mainly Muslim Caucasus region, the Russian army announced Tuesday.

Russian television showed what it said was Maskhadov's body.

The death of Maskhadov, 53, would boost Russian President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites), who built his power largely on a tough line against the Chechen rebels. The armed campaign which Maskhadov led had brought bombings to the very heart of Russia.

"The Federal Security forces, while conducting a special operation ... killed international terrorist and rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov," army spokesman Ilya Shabalkin told Reuters by telephone.

Mashkadov's envoy to the Nordic countries, Usman Ferzaouli based in Copenhagen, said: "They have confirmed it many times. They have confirmed that the war in Cherchnya is over many times."

"If still we and my colleagues have not heard anything, then the president (Maskhadov) is not killed but alive," he said.

Maskhadov has a $10 million reward on his head.

Moscow blames Maskhadov for a string of deadly operations in Russia, including an attack on a Moscow theater, a bombing opposite the Kremlin and an armed action against a school in the south Russian town of Beslan.

At least 326 hostages -- half of them children -- died at the school in Beslan last year.

INTERNATIOANL LINKS

Moscow also links Maskhadov, and field commander Shamil Basayev, to groups that conducted attacks such as the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

Recently Maskhadov had called for talks with Moscow on Chechen demands for independence, but the Kremlin insists it will not negotiate with terrorists.

Some critics of Moscow's policies in Chechnya (news - web sites) saw Maskhadov as more moderate than Basayev and a man with whom the Kremlin could negotiate.

Russian leaders, fearing a breakaway by Chechnya could trigger secession moves by other regions in the sprawling federation, have fought two wars in Chechnya.

Tens of thousands were killed on both sides in the first conflict from 1994-96. Putin sent troops back into the territory in 1999 to cement his image as a strong leader ahead of his election as president in 2000. The territory suffered widespread devastation and thousands more were killed.

Either the situation will temporarely escalate or we will see a breakdown of chechen terrorist activities. Anyway, it´s good that he´s out of buisiness, no matter what.

Edit: Hehe, Daddl got me on this one ! Revenge !

Be prepared to experience a cinematic death on the next forum nights

[ralphwiggum 6]

from New York Times.....seems like this is another point to pnder about.

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON, March 7 - Dozens of terror suspects on federal watch lists were allowed to buy firearms legally in the United States last year, according to a Congressional investigation that points up major vulnerabilities in federal gun laws.

People suspected of being members of a terrorist group are not automatically barred from legally buying a gun, and the investigation, conducted by the Government Accountability Office, indicated that people with clear links to terrorist groups had regularly taken advantage of this gap.

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, law enforcement officials and gun control groups have voiced increasing concern about the prospect of a terrorist walking into a gun shop, legally buying an assault rifle or other type of weapon and using it in an attack.

The G.A.O. study offers the first full-scale examination of the possible dangers posed by gaps in the law, Congressional officials said, and it concludes that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "could better manage" its gun-buying records in matching them against lists of suspected terrorists.

F.B.I. officials maintain that they are hamstrung by laws and policies restricting the use of gun-buying records because of concerns over the privacy rights of gun owners.

At least 44 times from February 2004 to June, people whom the F.B.I. regards as known or suspected members of terrorist groups sought permission to buy or carry a gun, the investigation found.

In all but nine cases, the F.B.I. or state authorities who handled the requests allowed the applications to proceed because a check of the would-be buyer found no automatic disqualification like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or someone deemed "mentally defective," the report found.

In the four months after the formal study ended, the authorities received an additional 14 gun applications from terror suspects, and all but 2 of those were cleared to proceed, the investigation found. In all, officials approved 47 of 58 gun applications from terror suspects over a nine-month period last year, it found.

The gun buyers came up as positive matches on a classified internal F.B.I. watch list that includes thousands of terrorist suspects, many of whom are being monitored, trailed or sought for questioning as part of terrorism investigations into Islamic-based, militia-style and other groups, official said. G.A.O. investigators were not given access to the identities of the gun buyers because of those investigations.

The report is to be released on Tuesday, and an advance copy was provided to The New York Times.

Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, who requested the study, plans to introduce legislation to address the problem in part by requiring federal officials to keep records of gun purchases by terror suspects for a minimum of 10 years. Such records must now be destroyed within 24 hours as a result of a change ordered by Congress last year. Mr. Lautenberg maintains that the new policy has hindered terrorism investigations by eliminating the paper trail on gun purchases.

"Destroying these records in 24 hours is senseless and will only help terrorists cover their tracks," Mr. Lautenberg said Monday. "It's an absurd policy."

He blamed what he called the Bush administration's "twisted allegiances" to the National Rifle Association for the situation.

The N.R.A. and gun rights supporters in Congress have fought - successfully, for the most part - to limit the use of the F.B.I.'s national gun-buying database as a tool for law enforcement investigators, saying the database would amount to an illegal registry of gun owners nationwide.

The legal debate over how gun records are used became particularly contentious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, when it was disclosed that the Justice Department and John Ashcroft, then the attorney general, had blocked the F.B.I. from using the gun-buying records to match against some 1,200 suspects who were detained as part of the Sept. 11 investigation. Mr. Ashcroft maintained that using the records in a criminal investigation would violate the federal law that created the system for instant background gun checks, but Justice Department lawyers who reviewed the issue said they saw no such prohibition.

In response to the report, Mr. Lautenberg also plans to ask Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales to assess whether people listed on the F.B.I.'s terror watch list should be automatically barred from buying a gun. Such a policy would require a change in federal law.

F.B.I. officials acknowledge shortcomings in the current approach to using gun-buying records in terror cases, but they say they are somewhat constrained by gun laws as established by Congress and interpreted by the Justice Department.

"We're in a tough position," said an F.B.I. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report has not been formally released. "Obviously, we want to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, but we also have to be mindful of privacy and civil rights concerns, and we can't do anything beyond what the law allows us to do."

After initial reluctance from Mr. Ashcroft over Second Amendment concerns, the Justice Department changed its policy in February 2004 to allow the F.B.I. to do more cross-checking between gun-buying records and terrorist intelligence.

Under the new policy, millions of gun applications are run against the F.B.I.'s internal terrorist watch list, and if there is a match, bureau field agents or other counterterrorism personnel are to be contacted to determine whether they have any information about the terror suspect.

In some cases, the extra review allowed the F.B.I. to block a gun purchase by a suspected terrorist that might otherwise have proceeded because of a lag time in putting information into the database, the accountability office's report said.

In one instance last year, follow-up information provided by F.B.I. field agents revealed that someone on a terror watch list was deemed "mentally defective," even though that information had not yet made its way into the gun database. In a second case, field agents disclosed that an applicant was in the country illegally. Both applications were denied.

Even so, the report concluded that the Justice Department should clarify what information could and could not be shared between gun-buying administrators and terrorism investigators. It also concluded that the F.B.I. should keep closer track of the performance of state officials who handle gun background checks in lieu of the F.B.I.

"Given that these background checks involve known or suspected terrorists who could pose homeland security risks," the report said, "more frequent F.B.I. oversight or centralized management would help ensure that suspected terrorists who have disqualifying factors do not obtain firearms in violation of the law."

[theavonlady 2]

from New York Times.....seems like this is another point to pnder about.

Pondered in my post, 4 entries above.

Quote[/b] ]Balschoiw Posted on Mar. 08 2005,17:19

It´s somehow like allowing Bin Laden family members to be flown out of the US after 9/11...

Urban legends don't become true simply because you repeat them.

From chapter 10 of the US Govt. 9/11 Commission Report:

Quote[/b] ]Flights of Saudi Nationals Leaving the United States

Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11:

(1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13, 2001? (2) Was there any political intervention to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals? (3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?

First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001.24 To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.25

Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals. The issue came up in one of the many video teleconferences of the interagency group Clarke chaired, and Clarke said he approved of how the FBI was dealing with the matter when it came up for interagency discussion at his level. Clarke told us, "I asked the FBI, Dale Watson . . . to handle that, to check to see if that was all right with them, to see if they wanted access to any of these people, and to get back to me. And if they had no objections, it would be fine with me." Clarke added, "I have no recollection of clearing it with anybody at the White House."26

Although White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card remembered someone telling him about the Saudi request shortly after 9/11, he said he had not talked to the Saudis and did not ask anyone to do anything about it. The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.27

Third, we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United States on charter flights.28 The Saudi government was advised of and agreed to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed.29The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.30

The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures. They concluded that none of the passengers was connected to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.31

For details, see the numbered footnotes in the report.

[Balschoiw 0]

Well you got a love the homeland security office as it tells a very different story Avon.

Urban legend ?

US customs border protection on saudi flights after 9/11

[theavonlady 2]

Well you got a love the homeland security office as it tells a very different story Avon.

Urban legend ?  

US customs border protection on saudi flights after 9/11

With the exception of the first line of that report (1 passenger travelling on 9/11), all the others traveled from 9/13 and onward.

As footnote 24 of the Commission's report states:

Quote[/b] ]24. During the morning of September 11, the FAA suspended all nonemergency air activity in the national airspace.While the national airspace was closed, decisions to allow aircraft to fly were made by the FAA working with the Department of Defense, Department of State, U.S. Secret Service, and the FBI. <span style='color:red'>The Department of Transportation reopened the national airspace to U.S. carriers effective 11:00 A.M. on September 13, 2001, for flights out of or into airports that had implemented the FAA's new security requirements.</span> See FAA response to Commission questions for the record, June 8, 2004.

About line 1 in your link, was that an early morning flight before the shutdown? And if not, why only just one Saudi?

[Balschoiw 0]

I´d really like to see how Avon managed to get a slot for a flight on 13th of september.

Well, this is what the commision found Avon:

Commission Report, p. 556, n. 25: “[A]fter the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24.â€

Commission Report at p. 557, n. 28: “The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency process…Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI…Two of the passengers on this flight had been the subjects of preliminary investigations by the FBI, but both their cases had been closed, in 1999 and March 2001, respectively, because the FBI had uncovered no derogatory information on either person linking them to terrorist activity.â€

Commission Report p. 329: Richard Clarke approved these flights.

The 9/11 Commission Report says: “Two of the passengers on this flight had been the subjects of preliminary investigations by the FBI, but both their cases had been closed, in 1999 and March 2001, respectively, because the FBI had uncovered no derogatory information on either person linking them to terrorist activity. Their cases remained closed as of 9/11, were not reopened before they departed the country on this flight, and have not been reopened since.†Notes, p. 557, Chapter 10, n. 28).

You also may want to check the Washington Post article from July 22, 2003 that says:

“One passenger, Omar Awad bin Laden, a nephew of the al Qaeda leader, had been investigated by the FBI because he had lived with Abdullah bin Laden, a leader of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, which the FBI suspected of being a terrorist organization.â€

He was one of the 13 relatives of Bin Laden who left the US on these flights.

Dana Milbank, “Plane Carried 13 Bin Ladens;Manifest of Sept. 19, 2001, Flight From U.S. Is Released, Washington Post, July 22, 2003.

Not to mention that the WAMY turned out to have suspected terrorist ties.

Quote[/b] ]“Federal agents have raided the U.S. branch of a large Saudi-based charity, founded in Northern Virginia by a nephew of Osama bin Laden, in connection with a terrorism-related investigation, law enforcement sources said yesterday. The raid Friday on the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY) in Alexandria was carried out by agents of the FBI, U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the Joint Terrorism Task Force, the sources said.

Just to prove you wrong here is the passenger manifest that lists a lot of Bin Ladens on their way home.

Passenger Manifest

I want to quote Senator Frank Lautenberg on this one:

Quote[/b] ]“The first rule of a criminal investigation is that when the suspect is on the run, you must interrogate the family to find out where he is. Osama Bin Laden just killed over 3,000 Americans, and one of the first actions by the Bush administration was to let Bin Laden's relatives leave without intense questioning? The President of the United States needs to explain to the American people why his Administration let this plane leave. The American people are going to be shocked by this manifest, and they deserve an explanation.â€

He has a point there I guess....

apart from him, even Senator Dyron Borgon had a say on this one:

Quote[/b] ]“Dale Watson, the No. 2 man and former head of counterterrorism at the FBI has said none of them were subjected to ‘serious' interrogation or questions before being allowed to leave. In fact, we now know that at least two and perhaps more of the Saudis who were allowed to leave after Sept. 11 were under investigation by the FBI for alleged terrorist connections.â€

Funny heh ?

It gets even more funny when you check wich plane the Laden family used to leave the country:

Washington Post, July 22, 2003, “Plane Carried 13 Bin Ladens; Manifest of Sept. 19, 2001, Flight From U.S. Is Released,"

Quote[/b] ] “has been chartered frequently by the White House for the press corps traveling with President Bush.â€

Hmmm, all that strange coincidences.

The commision itself proved to be a rather toothless tiger when you check Condi Rice´s testimony and the inability to get Bush and his vice president to testify under oath.

But that is a different story.

[raedor 8]

replying to fireFlyPLs post in this thread:

oh, you know what? this war is ongoing for more than 150 years (do you think that the chechens liked to get deported by stalin all over russia?). and the rebels want freedom, democracy, peace, at least some of them. ok, bassajew is demanding the things you mention, but maskhadov wasn't. they killed the false one. maybe the last moderate leader of the chechens...

[theavonlady 2]

ok, bassajew is demanding the things you mention

Something sounds fishy.

[raedor 8]

ok, bassajew is demanding the things you mention

Something sounds fishy.

what's the point of this post?