Us to liberia?

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]You're driving along with your fellow peacekeepers in some APC or something and stumble across a small battle.  Would you

1) Turn around and run

2) Wait and help the wounded

3) Shoot anyone who's shooting, after verbal warnings of course

Can´t be answered until you give detailed description of what the task of UN in this mission is.

a set of ROE's will be generated in function of the task and these ROE's will determine the behavior to adopt in such cases

[ran 0]

Do we even support anyone in the country?  Who are the good guys? Or is it all f*cked and the world has to start over with them?

i doubt there's really anybody to support in this country

that's the problem with this kind of conflicts

the only thing the peacekeeping force will be able to do will be to protect well defined objectives such as governmental infrastructures and civilian population points , and if stated in the mission orders and ROE's , it could interpose between both fighting sides

[FSPilot 0]

Ok nevermind if i came up with the ROEs I'd answer my own question

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do we even support anyone in the country? Who are the good guys? Or is it all f*cked and the world has to start over with them?

Examining news footage and photographs, most of the new purchased Serbian AK-47s seem to be in the hands of inexperienced, even child, 'soldiers'. They carry little in the way of web gear or spare magazines, don't aim or even hold their weapons with much familiarity. Those carrying RPG-7s seem to have universally discarded the PSO-1 optical sight (which can seem complicated for even trained troops) and rely on the iron sights, thereby reducing the weapons' effective range.

However, there are some fighters - generally older - that are displaying all the indicators of good fire discipline. Some of them can even be seen guarding President Taylor and his defense minister.

Nigerian troops are expected to arrive on July 30th. The US is trying to prepare the way by having their ambassador to Liberia persuade the LURD to withdraw from the capital and allow aid groups to resume feeding refugees. LURD says that every time they pull back and stop fighting, government troops take advantage and advance. A major problem is that many of the troops are not well led or disciplined. Commanders have to use beatings and summary execution to impose discipline. But commanders have to be careful, as too many unhappy troops result in a murdered commander.

American marines will be offshore this week, but are not expected to go ashore. The primary peacekeeping problem is that most of the fighters are unpaid amateurs who expect to be paid eventually. If they can't loot, they expect some other consideration (a job or goods.) The problem is that there is not much left to steal in Liberia, and wealthier nations like the US are expected to come through with an aid package that will buy peace long enough for the local economy to get going again. That, however, is not a long term solution as long as tribal animosities continue to create corrupt officials who prevent the establishment of stable government and economic growth. While many Liberians are thoroughly tired of years of fighting, joining one of the government or rebel militias is one of the few ways to get employment. Peacekeepers can intimidate many of the government and rebel troops to back off, and even disarm some of them. But many will simply go off and become bandits.

[Necromancer- 0]

Europe does not have any legal obligation to help Congo out, but we're doing it anyway out of moral obligation.

although Congo has never been a french colony before... there are french troops in Congo.  

Quote[/b] ]You're driving along with your fellow peacekeepers in some APC or something and stumble across a small battle. Would you

1) Turn around and run

2) Wait and help the wounded

3) Shoot anyone who's shooting, after verbal warnings of course

I'd do #2 and I would call in air support and ask for an F14 to do a low altitude fly-by at mach 2.5

That would scare them off and stop the shooting.

[ran 0]

Europe does not have any legal obligation to help Congo out, but we're doing it anyway out of moral obligation.

although Congo has never been a french colony before... there are french troops in Congo.  

it was a belgian colony , but since we have interests in the region and pre-positioned troops ...

-edit- : and seeing the actual belgian army you'll understand why they won't go there to settle things down

and Congo is , like many other countries of the region a french speaking state

[Necromancer- 0]

-edit- : and seeing the actual belgian army you'll understand why they won't go there to settle things down

and Congo is , like many other countries of the region a french speaking state

Belgian sissy's.

At least can send some support troops for the French over there. :\

200 men perhaps?

lol... Belgium wouldn't have any troops left to fill some sandbags when a river floods over the place if they send 200 men to Congo.

jk of course

[GODSMACK 0]

The difference:

Iraq: Piss off. Leave us alone.

By Iraq do you mean the bath party and it's loyalist or do you mean the Iraqis *sp

Why is it that the US is obligated to go and stop taylor from killing people in africa, but we had to fight the world to go and stop sadam from killing in iraq???

Personaly I agree with Bush's decision to send US Forces into Liberia. It's our job as the police to help. Funny, how if you think about it the US is the same as the police on a bigger scale. You hate the cops when they bust you for speeding, but you love them when they come to help you...

[ran 0]

At least can send some support troops for the French over there. :\

200 men perhaps?

1 large field hospital which could centralize the wounded personnal from all the NATO/UN forces in the region

several transport aircrafts such as C130's

engineers to help all the contingents in africa to build runways (1 french engineer compagny is not enough)

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Peacekeepers have arrived

Quote[/b] ]MONROVIA, Liberia (CNN) -- The first contingent of 300 West African peacekeepers has arrived in Liberia to the cheers of Liberians desperate to see the end of fighting between rebels and government forces.

The first group of peacekeepers immediately took up positions to secure Roberts International Airport, about 40 miles outside the capital Monrovia, as a second helicopter landed with another group of Nigerian troops.

As an armored personnel carrier with mounted machine guns rolled off one of the flights, scores of Liberian onlookers evaded security and ran toward the troops.

"No more war. We want peace," they chanted, at one point lifting a commander, Col. Emeka Onwuama Egbu, to their shoulders.

Rebel leader Sekou Damate Conneh said his group -- Liberians United for Reconciliation and Democracy (LURD) -- was celebrating the peacekeepers' arrival and ready to leave their positions as soon as the West Africans are in place.

"We are very, very happy and we are prepared to welcome them and we are going to cooperate," Conneh said. "We want our civilians to be protected. We are prepared to withdraw."

Conneh spoke to CNN by telephone from Rome, where he was a guest of the Community of Sant'Egidio, a movement of church and lay people who have been involved in the Liberian peace effort.

Conneh said the rebels "do not trust (President) Charles Taylor," who announced Saturday he would step down on Augusut 11, after the peacekeepers have secured the country.

"He has said he is leaving on several occasions and he is not leaving," Conneh said. "But this time we are very happy that an international force is on the ground."

Conneh also said LURD would disarm once a transitional leader replaced Taylor.

[Milkman 1]

@ Aug. 04 2003,12:30)]Peacekeepers have arrived

Quote[/b] ]MONROVIA, Liberia (CNN) -- The first contingent of 300 West African peacekeepers has arrived in Liberia to the cheers of Liberians desperate to see the end of fighting between rebels and government forces.

The first group of peacekeepers immediately took up positions to secure Roberts International Airport, about 40 miles outside the capital Monrovia, as a second helicopter landed with another group of Nigerian troops.

As an armored personnel carrier with mounted machine guns rolled off one of the flights, scores of Liberian onlookers evaded security and ran toward the troops.

"No more war. We want peace," they chanted, at one point lifting a commander, Col. Emeka Onwuama Egbu, to their shoulders.

Rebel leader Sekou Damate Conneh said his group -- Liberians United for Reconciliation and Democracy (LURD) -- was celebrating the peacekeepers' arrival and ready to leave their positions as soon as the West Africans are in place.

"We are very, very happy and we are prepared to welcome them and we are going to cooperate," Conneh said. "We want our civilians to be protected. We are prepared to withdraw."

Conneh spoke to CNN by telephone from Rome, where he was a guest of the Community of Sant'Egidio, a movement of church and lay people who have been involved in the Liberian peace effort.

Conneh said the rebels "do not trust (President) Charles Taylor," who announced Saturday he would step down on Augusut 11, after the peacekeepers have secured the country.

"He has said he is leaving on several occasions and he is not leaving," Conneh said. "But this time we are very happy that an international force is on the ground."

Conneh also said LURD would disarm once a transitional leader replaced Taylor.

Glad to hear that one rebel faction is cooperating.

Maybe things won't be too bad in Liberia... I hope.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe things won't be too bad in Liberia... I hope.

Wishful thinking I guess.

Background:

Quote[/b] ]The country was not founded by freed American slaves as much as it was conquered by them. Between 1822 and 1861, some 25,000 freed slaves from the United States and the Caribbean arrived in what is now Liberia. But the area was already settled by over two dozen tribes. The wealthy Americans who sponsored the settlement (including several former presidents), thought the freed slaves would easily adapt. But they didn't. The Amero-Liberians (as the freed slave settlers came to be known), were seen as little different than the European colonizers. The Amero-Liberians (as the descendents of the freed slaves came to be known) spoke English and had superior technology, which they used to keep the tribes at bay.

After a few generations, about five percent of the population was Amero-Liberians, who looked down on the tribal peoples and did little to integrate them into Amero-Liberian society. Tribal peoples could not even vote until 1951, and even then only a few percent of them. Up until 1926, when the Firestone Tire company set up what eventually became the world's largest rubber plantation, there wasn't much of a cash economy, either. The Firestone operation covered four percent of Liberia's territory and ultimately employed over 20,000 workers. The rubber operation quickly became the largest economic activity in the country. For the first time, many of the tribal peoples had access to the cash economy, education and a different life.

The Amero-Liberians did well, as they comprised the majority of literate people in the country, and controlled the ports and retail trade along the coast. When World War II came along, and the Allies lost access to the large rubber plantations in Southeast Asia, Liberian rubber became even more valuable. Liberia also hosted American air and naval bases, bringing more jobs and money. The downside, for the Amero-Liberians, was that many of the tribal peoples were getting a taste of the modern world, and realized that everyone in Liberia could be a Liberian, if the Amero-Liberians would let them.

During the 1930s, there was a major scandal when senior government officials were caught, by the League of Nations, engaging in slavery. The government was exporting tribal Liberians to serve as slave labor in Spanish colonies. International pressure forced the government to treat the tribal people more fairly, something which was already happening, at least in terms of education, because of the growing economy. The World War II boom, led to even greater prosperity after World War II as Liberia became a "flag of convenience" for merchant ships world wide. And then iron ore and diamonds deposits were exploited, followed by lumber exports.

While some of the new prosperity found its way to the tribal areas, there was also more money for the politicians to steal. Bribes and extortion became more common, and this was noted by a post World War II generation, many of whom were going to college in the United States. Despite all the new money, only a third of the population was literate and 75 percent still got by with subsistence farming. In 1980, an army NCO, who was not Amero-Liberian, staged a coup and the Amero-Liberians were not able to muster enough muscle to save themselves. The last colony in Africa was now run by the native population.

The Amero-Liberians never expected to lose control, as they considered themselves African by virtue of ancestry and appearance. There had been an unsuccessful coup in 1963, and the politicians thought they were paying off enough tribal leaders to forestall another one. The Amero-Liberians also extended voting right to all tribal peoples in 1963. But the main problem was that the massive foreign investment and new jobs were only reaching about a quarter of the population. The majority felt excluded, and they were.

In the past, when the Amero-Liberians had trouble with foreign countries, the U.S. always helped them out. The U.S. recognized Liberian independence in 1862, and between 1892 and 1911, the United States helped Liberia negotiate fixed borders with Britain and France (who controlled colonies that surrounded Liberia.) But the U.S. had also long complained of the corruption of the Amero-Liberians and their harsh treatment of the tribal peoples. Thus America had no interest in helping out the Amero-Liberians in 1980.

With the Amero-Liberians no longer in power, there followed over two decades of fighting between the major tribes over who would get control of the government, and the opportunities to plunder the national wealth. After 1990, cheap guns (AK-47s for $20) and a network of middlemen willing to pay cash for natural resources like diamonds and lumber, armed tribal militias that kept fighting over what wealth was left. The AK-47s came from the huge arsenals of the former communist countries. They didn't need all those weapons, so they sold them cheap. AK-47s were showing up all over the world in the early 1990s, being hustled by East European gunrunners.

In the early 1990s, Nigerian peacekeepers tried to disarm the young men, but only got about a third of the 60,000 weapons in the country. East European gun runners still came by, because there were still customers. The fighting has killed over 200,000 people so far, and left nearly a quarter of the population homeless. The Nigerians departed in 1999 and left a lot of ill will in their wake. The Nigerians often pillaged as enthusiastically as the irregular gunmen they were trying to disarm.

To stop the fighting, you have to intimidate the teenage gunmen into giving up their weapons and force them to go back to subsistence farming, because that's all that's left. Billions of dollars in infrastructure has been destroyed, and donors are not lining up to replace it. Firestone is gradually leaving and other foreign firms only want to come in quickly and take diamonds or lumber. No one wants to set up a business in a country where the people hate each other in 34 different languages. There are no easy answers to the problems in Liberia, there aren't many hard answers either. Africa's last colony wants someone to come in and put the pieces back together. But no one is eager to do the job. Neighboring African countries, who have a direct interest in maintaining peace in the region, want the United States to help subsidize the peacekeeping. Even the neighbors don't want to get lost in Liberia.

One battalion of Nigerian peacekeepers have gone to Liberia today, another is advancing by road from neighboring Sierra Leone.

Fighting continues in the capital, relief organizations cannot deliver food and hunger is moving towards starvation.

My faith is with the ECOWAS forces. The US will probably stay out of the hot spots and more likely protect installations.

[Balschoiw 0]

7 US marines have landed on the US embassy roof in Monrovia. They will establish contact with ECOWAS forces.

I get the impression that US forces will not participate in the mission to establish peace in liberia.

US officials claimed that the 7 guys are not there for preparing a major landing operation.

[hellfish6 7]

I hope not. The US has no place in Africa.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The US has no place in Africa.

Why ?

[hellfish6 7]

Why should they? I think America's history vis-a-vis Africa has been nothing but disastrous. Africa needs to sort out itself before America jumps in there. As I've said before, US Marines have no place attempting to disarm coked up 14 year old generals who eat other human beings.

I do support the idea of deploying Nigerian and other West African troops to Liberia with US support, though.

[Longinius 1]

"Why should they? I think America's history vis-a-vis Africa has been nothing but disastrous. Africa needs to sort out itself before America jumps in there. As I've said before, US Marines have no place attempting to disarm coked up 14 year old generals who eat other human beings.

I do support the idea of deploying Nigerian and other West African troops to Liberia with US support, though."

So, they have nothing to do in Africa, but they have something to do in the Mid East?

[bn880 5]

And how many (ex) Africans live in the states? Of course they have a place in Africa when they have all these African Americans (from different nations of course) and they were being begged. Not to mention it is not a large scale operation compared to Iraq, it's actually like a grain of sand compared to a beach. Quite obvious, no gain, no oil, no nice place to establish a forward deployment base... no USA.

[bn880 5]

I actually can not believe the sheer stupidity of the current administration in the US,helping out in Liberia is the one action that would have helped world opinion of the US the most. Now it's down as low as it can get pretty much.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

That would make them stupid if they especially cared what any other government or population think and based their actions on how america would be percieved abroad but im far from convinced that they do (Israel may be an exception).

Of course the question of how intelligent it is to disregard how America is percieved internationally whilst conducting a 'war on terror' is one i leave people to answer for themselves.

[bn880 5]

That would make them stupid if they especially cared what any other government or population think and based their actions on how america would be percieved abroad but im far from convinced that they do (Israel may be an exception).

Yeah right. So what you're saying is it's stupid to care about anything other than your own business and well being. Gotcha.

I guess we can all extend that to our neighbours, lets just do what we want whenever and not care about them. What that leads to is domestic disputes or assaults... on an international scale it leads to economic sancions (obvious or not) or even wars.

[Balschoiw 0]

meanwhile in Liberia:

Quote[/b] ]While president Charles Taylor appears determined to leave on Monday and go into exile in Nigeria, his followers will have a lot of incentive to fight on. Unless peacekeepers can enforce some kind of amnesty, Taylor's cronies will face retribution if they give up.

More Nigerian peacekeepers entered the capital, others went to suburban areas.

Nigerian peacekeepers guarding the main airport have prevented the government from removing two containers of weapons that just arrived via a Boeing 707. The weapons apparently came from Libya, which has long supported president Charles Johnson.

[Milkman 1]

meanwhile in Liberia:

Quote[/b] ]While president Charles Taylor appears determined to leave on Monday and go into exile in Nigeria, his followers will have a lot of incentive to fight on. Unless peacekeepers can enforce some kind of amnesty, Taylor's cronies will face retribution if they give up.

More Nigerian peacekeepers entered the capital, others went to suburban areas.

Nigerian peacekeepers guarding the main airport have prevented the government from removing two containers of weapons that just arrived via a Boeing 707. The weapons apparently came from Libya, which has long supported president Charles Johnson.

Isn't it Charles Taylor?

[Milkman 1]

Taylor leaves power

[ran 0]

Taylor leaves power

and ...... the new leader is already contestated .....