The Iraq Thread 2

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]1. Got a (credible) source for this?

2. Yelling at people and making them lay on the ground during a search is kind of a procedure thing. What do you expect? Hugs and fruit baskets?

Line infantrymen are by no means diplomats. SF soldiers are trained to deal with Civil Affairs but grunts are not, what do you expect. They are just doing their jobs. Quit demonizing them.

Well it was on TV. An embedded reporter who moves along with the troops filmed it. No error possible.

Yelling and forcing them to lie down is one thing but it´s another to threat people with death and the loss of their homes. Additionally they forced the women to take off their (insert the word here that names the scarf they wear round their head to keep the face hidden) wich isn´t really popular.

You deal with liberated Iraqi´s here, not with Taliban terrorists. Unless the US learn to interact with humans in a civilized manner they will only fuel the already existing anger within the Iraqi population.

EDIT: Amnesty international on human rights in Iraq.

[Longinius 1]

"US forces shot 12-year-old Mohammad al-Kubaisi as they carried out search operations around his house on 26 June. That evening, as usual, Mohammad was carrying the family bedding up to the roof when a soldier shot at him from the opposite house. Mohammad was still alive when neighbours tried to rush him by car to the nearby hospital but they were stopped by soldiers in a tank on the way. The soldiers forced the neighbours to the ground and after 15 minutes ordered them to return home because the curfew had started. Mohammad was already dead."

From Bals link.

Boy, I'd like to live in a liberated country where stuff like this goes on!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Quote[/b] ]They came into a village drove all inhabitants out of their houses, made them lie in the dust, yelled at them, threatened them with weapons, even the kids and women and the commander of the brave US troops told the inhabitants that the next time they will come back they will have tanks with them and flatten the houses.

1. Got a (credible) source for this?

2. Yelling at people and making them lay on the ground during a search is kind of a procedure thing. What do you expect? Hugs and fruit baskets?

Line infantrymen are by no means diplomats. SF soldiers are trained to deal with Civil Affairs but grunts are not, what do you expect. They are just doing their jobs. Quit demonizing them.

Go to Basra and learn from the pro's how it is done properly

[theavonlady 2]

        1 14y old boy incappable to participate in the battle

According to the newswire reports, he was the last one killed after firing on US troops with an automatic rifle.

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]They came into a village drove all inhabitants out of their houses, made them lie in the dust, yelled at them, threatened them with weapons, even the kids and women and the commander of the brave US troops told the inhabitants that the next time they will come back they will have tanks with them and flatten the houses.

1. Got a (credible) source for this?

2. Yelling at people and making them lay on the ground during a search is kind of a procedure thing. What do you expect? Hugs and fruit baskets?

Line infantrymen are by no means diplomats. SF soldiers are trained to deal with Civil Affairs but grunts are not, what do you expect. They are just doing their jobs. Quit demonizing them.

Go to Basra and learn from the pro's how it is done properly

Touche!

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]"They (Odai and Qusai) are Iraqi people," said Waad Hamadi, 43, another neighbor. "We would not have told the Americans. Many people say he (Muhhamad) is the one, but there is no way he can come back here now. He is a traitor."

O & Q tortured and murdered the Iraqi people for years killing thousands of people.  But they still want to protect them simply because they're from Iraq?

Lotta people do the same for Bush too.

[Bernadotte 0]

I have seen a nice scene yesterday. US troops searching for what they call nests of resistance.

They came into a village drove all inhabitants out of their houses, made them lie in the dust, yelled at them, threatened them with weapons, even the kids and women and the commander of the brave US troops told the inhabitants that the next time they will come back they will have tanks with them and flatten the houses.

You don´t need to have Udai or Saddam in your back to resist

the US. The US themselfes make sure that Iraqi´s resistance grows daily. Shia´s are already opposing the US in public and they will be part of the coaltion problem very soon.

If the coaltion troops don´t change their methods very soon they will arrest a suspected every day and make 1000 new enemies along with it.

I suspected this was going to happen.  I posted a theory about it a few months ago, in the other thread:

A democratically elected Iraqi government should eventually be able to pass a constitutional edict that would allow the government to tear up any contracts that were signed by unelected administrations (like the present one).  This would be a victory for democracy and would theoretically even allow the Iraqis to throw out Halliburton in exchange for French, German and Russian firms, right?.

Prediction:

The US knows this and will prevent it by keeping free elections from happening for a long time.  How?  One way is by keeping the nation in a state of perpetual unrest and turmoil.

"Sure we'll allow elections, just as soon as there's stability."

As I said back then, "Just think Palestine with oil."

[Akira 0]

It appears that the soldiers doing the fighting and attacking, didn't even know who was in the house.

Soldiers Unaware

[FSPilot 0]

1. Got a (credible) source for this?

2. Yelling at people and making them lay on the ground during a search is kind of a procedure thing. What do you expect? Hugs and fruit baskets?

Line infantrymen are by no means diplomats. SF soldiers are trained to deal with Civil Affairs but grunts are not, what do you expect. They are just doing their jobs. Quit demonizing them.

I try to take what he says with a hefty amount of salt.

[Tovarish 0]

I try to take what he says with a hefty amount of salt.

[Akira 0]

I try to take what he says with a hefty amount of salt.

Funny Cartoon

LOL!

[FSPilot 0]

Hey, I never lied to anybody.

[Tovarish 0]

Hey, I never lied to anybody.

That's the scary part, I think you actually believe the things you say. Things such as were listed by bn880 or from the incident which you have asked me not to mention anymore.

But now we're calling Balschoiw a liar? Heh. Ironic (See my previous paragraph).

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hey, I never lied to anybody.

Source pls

Quote[/b] ]But now we're calling Balschoiw a liar?

I hope for him that he didnt mean it that way. If he did intend to do that and calls me a liar he will get the reward for it.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Hey, I never lied to anybody.

Source pls

First post here.

[FSPilot 0]

LOL!

Man you sure do get around avon.

Balschoiw, if you didn't want to be called a liar you shouldn't of lied to me.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Balschoiw, if you didn't want to be called a liar you shouldn't of lied to me.

So I have lied to you ?

When ?

Where ?

What ?

I hope you can justify this claim. If not the Mods will have work.

[FSPilot 0]

The mods are the one that pointed it out, actually.  You posted a link to a story that accused a US soldier of war crimes.  This story had already been widley dismissed and disproven.  You knew this, but still posted it as reliable.

I think it was a US general on second thought.

[Blaegis 0]

BTW, how come all the media keeps talking about a 6-hour firefight at the Q&U mansion? If the operation started at 1000 hours and the house was secured before 1400 hours, didn't it last 4 hours then?

[FSPilot 0]

That's the media for you.

[bn880 5]

LOL!

Man you sure do get around avon.

Is there something going on here we should know about? Source pls.

FS, just don't burn your bridges when finally something starts to sink in. I don't know exactly who you talk to in your physical life (ie not web) every day, but I suspect these people have even less of a clue than you do about some issues, and that's why you won't listen to so many members reasoning. That's one theory.

[FSPilot 0]

FS, just don't burn your bridges when finally something starts to sink in.  I don't know exactly who you talk to in your physical life (ie not web) every day, but I suspect these people have even less of a clue than you do about some issues, and that's why you won't listen to so many members reasoning.     That's one theory

Or maybe I understand but disagree with your reasoning?

[bn880 5]

FS, just don't burn your bridges when finally something starts to sink in. I don't know exactly who you talk to in your physical life (ie not web) every day, but I suspect these people have even less of a clue than you do about some issues, and that's why you won't listen to so many members reasoning. That's one theory

Or maybe I understand but disagree with your reasoning?

So I wonder exactly how to reason some things out with you, if you are not faced with different cultures and living conditions for yourself, maybe you won't listen to some reasoning.

EDIT: Just so you know where I'm coming from, some of my best friends in the past have been from Iran, Afghanistan, and Korea. Maybe that's why I understand some different reasoning as well. And I haven't been living nicely and calmly all my life in Canada...

[FSPilot 0]

So I wonder exactly how to reason some things out with you, if you are not faced with different cultures and living conditions for yourself, maybe you won't listen to some reasoning.

EDIT: Just so you know where I'm coming from, some of my best friends in the past have been from Iran, Afghanistan, and Korea.   Maybe that's why I understand some different reasoning as well.   And I haven't been living nicely and calmly all my life in Canada...

It's not that I'm not listening to your reasoning. I think for the most part I understand it, just don't agree with it. You know, you don't have to make me agree with your reasoning.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The mods are the one that pointed it out, actually. You posted a link to a story that accused a US soldier of war crimes. This story had already been widley dismissed and disproven. You knew this, but still posted it as reliable.

I think it was a US general on second thought.

It took me a while to find the page with the content you are referring to.

Complete page

Original content:

Balschoiw:

Did they ever ?

Da way dey should be dreated

Ralph:

old news Bals, and IIRC, he was cleared of charges.

Balschoiw:

I know but I didnt find a better one in the hurry

You know all that dead little Iraqi´s killed in "accidents" that are still researched...you remember the bombs in market of Bagdad ? It must be a hell of a job to examine such things. They are still doing it...

Anyway you know what I was trying to say

FSPilot:

So you lied? You misled us into believe that this was still true, only told us half the story.

Tex[uSMC]:

See, FS, that story isn't the only story, but Balschoiw decided to use it for purely beauracratic reasons- he had to find one that everybody would be happy with.

(10 points if this isn't too subtle for you)

Now where did I lie ? If you keep up that accusation and try to put my name into the dirt you should better find some facts to base you accusations on. If you can´t find -> shut up.