The matrix: reloaded

[Longinius 1]

After having watched the movie I cant help but to feel a bit cheated. It seems like I watched the first one all over, with a slightly different twist to it. (I know there are huge differences, but thats how I feel).

This movie was OK, mainly because of some really cool action elements and surroundings (I am a sucker for huge sci-fi cities and big robots). Plot wise, it was just not satisfying, it just felt like it was to much. And the talk with the Architecht didnt help, it just confused me (maybe because English isnt my native language, or maybe because I am stupid. I still got lost in that conversation).

It could have, and should have, been a great movie. As it is, its just a mediocre one.

[Sith 0]

For those who lost track of what was said when Neo's met the architect, here's the complete conversation:

**Spoiler Alert** obviously

Quote[/b] ]The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bullshit."*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! F*ck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architect's room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bullshit.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

[Akira 0]

After having watched the movie I cant help but to feel a bit cheated. It seems like I watched the first one all over, with a slightly different twist to it. (I know there are huge differences, but thats how I feel).

This movie was OK, mainly because of some really cool action elements and surroundings (I am a sucker for huge sci-fi cities and big robots). Plot wise, it was just not satisfying, it just felt like it was to much. And the talk with the Architecht didnt help, it just confused me (maybe because English isnt my native language, or maybe because I am stupid. I still got lost in that conversation).

It could have, and should have, been a great movie. As it is, its just a mediocre one.

People continue to mis-interpret this movie as a complete, set apart movie as well as a sequel. It's not. As I stated its a bridge between Birth and Death (some might say Life....Matrix=Birth, Reloaded=Life, Revolutions=Death). This is more like Matrix 2.5 or so. An purposefully incomplete movie.

Some one also asked why Zion has been destroyed 6 times. Well, there you'll have to get into the "deeper" aspects that the WB have put in or attempted to put in. Some have said this movie series is about Determanism vs. Free Will. Fate vs. Ability to Choose. Man has free will. Do robots? Do artificial life forms that were constructed by man, and built for service, to service Man, have the ability to choose? The idea is taht Zion continues to exist, and the cycle of The One continued because Artificial lifeforms do not have the free will to break the cycle and end human existance. It is stated in the Architect scene that the robots are willing to accept "certain levels of existence." So then why don't they do it? Why don't they end the pesky human problem that continues to threaten them? Possibly because they can't conciously make that decision. Enter The One. A purposefully flawed program that is made to, according to the Architect, continue the cycle. Yet they keep improving The One, making him more human, and thus more flawed. Eventually, The One will make the wrong choice. Trinity or Zion? The choice is out of the Machines hands and into a flawed human that can make the choice for them.

Least thats one way to look at it.

And for those who didn't catch it all. Here is the dialogue between Neo and the Architect:

Architect Neo Scene

[USMC Sniper 0]

Actually it was destroyed 6 times because of this:

The first One got the 27 people saved, and after the machines destroyed Zion, they rebuilt it. After a long time, perhaps a new "one" was born (I don't understand why they are all Neo, perhaps it is a continuum of the same thing over and over again). Then the whole Matrix thing happened, where Morpheus found Neo and all that stuff. Then again the Architect thing, and the destruction of Zion. Again the 27 people rebuild it, the first Matrix thing happens, while each time Zion is destroyed, Neo's conscience is different each time so he says different things and acts differently in each screen. Also the Architect makes changes in the Matrix. Againthe same thing happens, and 3 more times until the time when Neo chooses the left door, unlike the other Ones.

Noticed it's close to what Akira said, the first time I read his post it seemed to be about something else. Oh well.

However I highly doubt "Zion" (which I think is a Matrix within the Matrix) will be destroyed.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Well, I've seen it twice, and my conclusions (finally)

The movie is a bit bloated, but definitely enjoyable. The philosophy and all that is strictly okay in my opinion- the most intriguing aspect was the entire discussion over what control is, and whether there is such a thing as free will. Definitely food for thought, especially in conjunction with our AI thread.

As for the action (let's not forget what the Matrix is all about), I think it's incredible how fresh and light it feels despite the fact that nearly every action movie since The Matrix has plagiarized its style. The only action scene that falls a little flat is Neo vs. Smiths Round 1. At a visceral level I really enjoy the amount of ass-kicking that fit into the scene, but like Warin said, it just gets a little ridiculous at a certain point. And besides, if Neo can fly away, why didn't he just do it earlier? Hugo Weaving is still awesome- how blessed can you be to be in two mega-franchises at one time? Anyhow, aside from the highway scene, my favorite was the fight between Neo and Seraph- hearkens back to the Neo/Morpheus sparring match in the first movie. Definitely light and fun, and I was a little dissapointed that it didn't last longer.

Now for the characters. I don't care whether they're believable or not; the entire Matrix concept itself is unbelievable, and as such can get away with more comic-book style characters. But my absolute favorite was the Merovingian- very over the top in his Frenchness. I thought the entire 20 minute segment he was involved in was probably the least dragging non-action portion of the film. Keanu Reeves continues to... well, you know. Whoa, and all that stuff. Fishburne continues to defy the cinematic "Brotha Rule", and for me it was truly moving to see the fanatic Morpheus collide with the fact that all his beliefs were based on a lie at the end of the movie. Probably the one truly 'human' display of the entire film. And I already talked about Hugo Weaving- all five hundred of him. It's a little disconcerting to see something with the power of an agent begin to develop human characteristics. The rest were strictly vanilla and under developed- I like Carrie-Ann Moss, but I can count her multi-sentence lines on one hand. A shame, really.

And now for the highway scene. Badass. I think that about covers it. Obviously it's the centerpiece of the entire movie. I just wish the Wachowski brothers would stop putting their main characters into situations where they can only be saved by Neo flying to their rescue at a thousand miles an hour- the super man gimmick is the cheesiest part of the entire movie, imo.

Reloaded is not prefect by any means, though. The dialogue is- in predictable action movie fashion- fairly boring and has to resort to kind of lame comic-relief *cough* Link *cough* to keep the script from taking a nosedive. And the entire cave/love scene, while I'm sure the directors thought it would inject some much-needed humanity into the world, just ends up feeling awkward and entirely out of place so far as the rest of the movie's style goes.

I can't understand those of you who think the CGI in the movie is badly done. I personally thought it was incredible how well they rendered difficult scenes like Neo vs. Smiths- sure, you can tell it's CGI, but what else is new? As far as computer graphics go, I'd have to say that Reloaded raises the bar again, just like its predecessor did.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie a lot- it certainly is not Oscar material (except for maybe Visual Effects and Editing), and you do have to leave certain things- like large portions of your brain- at the door, but overall the movie hits more than it misses, especially on the action front. Note to the directors, however: lose the superman thing. It's cheesy, and you end up killing the tension- what could possibly go wrong when help is only a split second away? And also, please add some elements that will please the cynical Swedes among us

[Akira 0]

@ May 26 2003,03:36)]And also, please add some elements that will please the cynical Swedes among us  

Like quick subliminal shots of Clinton

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

I didnt like the clothes that NEO wore through the movie.

lol, you mean the movie sucked because you dont like Neo's clothes?  

at the end of the movie when neo stops those sentinals, does that mean the "real world" a second matrix?  

edit: sorry, I didnt read through all the posts, was this allready mentioned?

[Tovarish 0]

Hmm...so from what I hear there are strong hints that there's a Matrix within a Matrix...Kind of reminds me of the movie The 13th Floor. Well, I mostly have the day free tomorrow, I think I'll finally go and see it .

[rwryne 0]

what happened to Tank?, also i loved the twists in the plot when neo got to the architect and explained what would happen, i did not see that one comming, yes the fight seens did seem a little overdrawn and i did spot the CGI (because we see them all the time so i can spot them so easily) neo but said to myself could they have done that scene anyway else, short answer NO, long answer , i dont think they could have done it any other way.

Its a film, to those who say it suck, get over yourself its a fun movie you over anylize it too much but i supposes you would not be happy about any movie if it was not about OFP just like all the games that come through you compare it to OFP.

the actor playing tank got fired, so they had to work around him and make the story line drop him....I heard that he went to the premier of Reloaded and stole food from it :P

[rwryne 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Firstly........ what is that city that they use? The one which they are going around on the freeway?

They built 2 miles of freeway somehwere to shoot those scenes, so probably not directly in a town

Quote[/b] ]

I thought that the fight with lots of Smith clones was odd. It looked too much like a computer game to be honest.

May be cus it was basically like a cutscene from a video game

Quote[/b] ]

I dont get why NEO didnt just kill the people during the fight on the staircase bit, if he'd have killed them they wouldnt have come back at him!

Then neo wouldnt be such a pimp...like when he first fights the agents and exerts mayb e 5% effort into the fight? lol

Quote[/b] ]

I dont like the bit where hes talking to 'the architect'. Its like the director wanted us to completely lose the plot in this part, because they use such complicated language. Could someone explain to me WHY Zion had already been destroyed 6 times?!

Maybe the humans get too advanced... Think of it like Iraq. They start to build up a military and WMD, we go in and destroy them. They start again, we go back in.

Did anyone else see the French guy as maybe an old version of neo (An older "the one")

[Nagual 0]

at the end of the movie when neo stops those sentinals, does that mean the "real world" a second matrix?  

Heh, i was telling my wife that would happen at end of movie well before i saw it.

It just the natural progression of the movies philosopy, that the same skills can be applied in the real world, as you are still sorta bending the same rules, and the real world aint that real, being energy fields primarily.

(Taken from the idea that skills learned during "dreaming-awake" can be utilized while "awake")

[Tex -USMC- 0]

at the end of the movie when neo stops those sentinals, does that mean the "real world" a second matrix?  

Heh, i was telling my wife that would happen at end of movie well before i saw it.

It just the natural progression of the movies philosopy, that the same skills can be applied in the real world, as you are still sorta bending the same rules, and the real world aint that real, being energy fields primarily.

(Taken from the idea that skills learned during "dreaming-awake" can be utilized while "awake")

hmm, I liked the two Matrix idea better.

[rwryne 0]

Was anyone else expecting the black dude (link) to die...

I thought he was cus of the necklace his wife gave him..seems in every movie the guy who dies gets something from the one he loves and then moments before death takes it out like Link did

[Nagual 0]

@ May 26 2003,15:14)]

at the end of the movie when neo stops those sentinals, does that mean the "real world" a second matrix?  

Heh, i was telling my wife that would happen at end of movie well before i saw it.

It just the natural progression of the movies philosopy, that the same skills can be applied in the real world, as you are still sorta bending the same rules, and the real world aint that real, being energy fields primarily.

(Taken from the idea that skills learned during "dreaming-awake" can be utilized while "awake")

hmm, I liked the two Matrix idea better.

It's basically the same concept, just different metaphors.

[CuteQA 0]

I much more like the animatrix than reloaded. The storys are more interesting, and each episode has their own characteristics.

ps: Nagual your picture is hurting my eyes

[FallenPaladin 0]

Maybe the humans get too advanced... Think of it like Iraq.  They start to build up a military and WMD, we go in and destroy them.  They start again, we go back in.

*cough* *cough* ...

[Die Alive 0]

Quick question.. Did anyone get a postcard/flier after you saw The Matrix 2?  Looks like this:

This is the back of it.

The NotInOurName website says this about the Matrix

Quote[/b] ]The original Matrix movie is the story of a man who took a red pill that represented the truth. He found his eyes opened to a world he could not imagine -- a world of devastation, deprivation and war. He finds that to know the world is to be able to change it. Courageous and determined he joined the resistance. In this spirit, Not In Our Name is currently taking variations of this leaflet to moviegoers of the new Matrix sequel.

-=Die Alive=-

[CuteQA 0]

Quick question.. Did anyone get a postcard/flier after you saw The Matrix 2?  Looks like this:

This is the back of it.

The NotInOurName website says this about the Matrix

Quote[/b] ]The original Matrix movie is the story of a man who took a red pill that represented the truth. He found his eyes opened to a world he could not imagine -- a world of devastation, deprivation and war. He finds that to know the world is to be able to change it. Courageous and determined he joined the resistance. In this spirit, Not In Our Name is currently taking variations of this leaflet to moviegoers of the new Matrix sequel.

-=Die Alive=-

A new terrorist group?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Nah, Not In Our Name is just a moderately annoying US group that displays a view of America's current actions just a little to the left of our FallenPaladin

[FSPilot 0]

@ May 15 2003,13:20)]Stay until the credits end.

If you want to know why, then sit and wait, or ask someone else about it. If you are a Matrix fan, it will be well worth your time, I promise you. Good night.

Agh!

I just saw it today, and I would of checked this and stayed for the credits if you hadn't put "possible spoilers" in the title.

Anyway, what happened?  I couldn't stand the music so I left as quickly as I could.

And I thought the movie was OK, nothing groundbreaking, but good to get a sequel out of the way.  One thing I didn't undrestand about the plot, and this is a spoiler so...

The traitor, didn't he die in the first matrix?  If not, wouldn't everyone recognize him as the traitor and kill/exile him instead of letting him live in zion?

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Different guy wasnt it?

[Warin 0]

It was. Cipher was the bad guy in the first movie, and Tank killed him on the ship, then helped Neo and Trinity rescue Morpheus.

The 'real world' bad guy in Reloaded is the guy that Smith took over and then went out to the real world through a hard line.

[Die Alive 0]

This whole Matrix thrilogy sounds too complicated for me. I'm going to stick to my Porky's trilogy

-=Die Alive=-

[FSPilot 0]

It was.  Cipher was the bad guy in the first movie, and Tank killed him on the ship, then helped Neo and Trinity rescue Morpheus.

The 'real world' bad guy in Reloaded is the guy that Smith took over and then went out to the real world through a hard line.

ohhhh, i get it

he looks amazingly similar to cipher. at least when i dont have a picture to compare them with.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

All you missed was a teaser for Matrix: Revolutions.